JackSlater
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2010
- 18,042
- 12,665
Neither has anyone on his team, but he's still led his team in points as many times as Crosby. What's your point? Give someone else who can produce points on his line at a high level and he'll pile up those extra 10-15 secondaries.Ovechkin has not scored or sniffed 100 points pace since 2010
If you go by adjusted points (which is a flawed formula but it's really all we have to compare offensive eras), most of Lemieux's prime seasons fell in the 140-160 point range. So, yes, I'm probably ten or so imaginary points off the mark there. Crosby and Ovechkin's prime seasons fall in the 120-130 point range and that's with Crosby never getting in a full season in his prime, which adds up to around a combined 240-260 points.How do Crosby/Ovi hit 250-260+ and Lemieux cap out at 140-150?
Your numbers are way off.
You could have made the same point with more realistic numbers
If you go by adjusted points (which is a flawed formula but it's really all we have to compare offensive eras), most of Lemieux's prime seasons fell in the 140-160 point range. So, yes, I'm probably ten or so imaginary points off the mark there. Crosby and Ovechkin's prime seasons fall in the 120-130 point range and that's with Crosby never getting in a full season in his prime, which adds up to around a combined 240-260 points.
My numbers are realistic. People who think a single player can dominate at the level of two combined all-time legends are being unrealistic. I refuse to believe the fallacy that Lemieux (and Gretzky) would put up 200 point seasons in an era that has massively reduced in scoring since his prime. It's just an absurd argument, given how much the game has changed.
Ovechkin has not scored or sniffed 100 points pace since 2010
A month ago I asked if would you take Prime Gretzky or Prime Sid/Malkin. Gretzky won that poll in convincing fashion.
This is just nostalgic hyperbole.Look at what McDavid is doing to this league. Now add 30 pounds and 3 inches and elite goalscoring ability.
Everything that hampered Lemieux is no longer in the league. The style of hockey being played today is completely conductive with Lemieux’s strengths.
40 year old Lemieux had 22 points in 26 games in 2005-06.
This is just nostalgic hyperbole.
Based on what McDavid is doing now, his adjusted points totals are up there with Gretzky and Lemieux's top seasons. Lemieux isn't suddenly going to outproduce his adjusted output from the 80s/90s, by a 15-20% margin, just because the game is more skillful today. Whatever benefits Lemieux would see from decreased clutching and grabbing would be counter-balanced by more effective defensive systems, better goaltending, significantly more mobile defensive cores, and a substantially decreased skill gap between the top of a roster and the bottom.
Lemieux is my favorite player of all time but I watched those late-career seasons and I think that his production needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
This is a really interesting though experiment. I have to go with Lemieux. If we're talking all three of these guys at their peak, I believe #66 + any other first line caliber player is going to outproduce Sid and Ovie.
Ovechkin has not scored or sniffed 100 points pace since 2010
Again, anyone taking Lemieux here is completely delusional. Completely.
I’d argue anyone that is taking Sid / Ovi never watched Lemieux in his prime. He was Sid level thought processing with Ovechkin level goalscoring and size.
He would destroy this league.
Sakic, Jags, and Forsberg were in their primes in 00-01. I’d also say they are comparable talents to Sid and Ovi at their prime level. Lemieux dunked on them as a 35 year old who hadn’t played hockey in years.
Once again, this imaginative take that anyone is close to Lemieux besides Gretzky is just bizarre.
I think it depends on the question. If the question is about which option you'd choose in order to have a better *team*, I think there's a lot of merit for taking the two "lesser" players but who can provide more depth.
Take for instance the Pens. When Mario was the sole star, they didn't make the playoffs. Meanwhile, the Sid and Geno era Penguins have never missed the playoffs with both guys on the roster. Individually Mario's the superior player to either of them, but collectively the two of them turn the Pens into a playoff threat every season, while Mario alone couldn't make the Pens a playoff threat multiple times when he was starting out.
I’d argue anyone that is taking Sid / Ovi never watched Lemieux in his prime. He was Sid level thought processing with Ovechkin level goalscoring and size.
He would destroy this league.
Sakic, Jags, and Forsberg were in their primes in 00-01. I’d also say they are comparable talents to Sid and Ovi at their prime level. Lemieux dunked on them as a 35 year old who hadn’t played hockey in years.
Once again, this imaginative take that anyone is close to Lemieux besides Gretzky is just bizarre.