billpo
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2006
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Contender...?you were really convinced that we were a contender because all the stars aligned and we made it to the conference final...Dorion thought the same thing.
Would you sign Duchene / Stone?
- Thread starter The Acccountant
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Is it really bad if we trade them both? I've been thinking about this quite a bit since it's likely they go.
- We wont be competing any time soon, young assets and picks is what we need.
- We have strong prospects coming up, we will probably get 2 solid prospects and picks back at minimum. That will be a good pile coming up future wise.
In no way at all do I want either of them gone. But we wont be doing shit while Melnyk is here. We may as well trade them and get solid pieces back and start improving for the future. Hopefully by that time Melnyk is gone. I personally really want Tolv from Nashville...
- We wont be competing any time soon, young assets and picks is what we need.
- We have strong prospects coming up, we will probably get 2 solid prospects and picks back at minimum. That will be a good pile coming up future wise.
In no way at all do I want either of them gone. But we wont be doing shit while Melnyk is here. We may as well trade them and get solid pieces back and start improving for the future. Hopefully by that time Melnyk is gone. I personally really want Tolv from Nashville...
in 3 years Stone and Duchene are most likely better than any young player we get back or draft with those picks
so yes it is a bad move to deal them both.
GrantLemons
Church of FYOUS
We were a bubble team that got hot at the right time and had some good playoff matchups. We were never a contender.
We gutted part of our leadership core (Turris, Methot), and the EK/Hoffman drama appeared, that's when things went south real fast. It just so happened that all of that coincided with Duchene arriving.
We added no one of substance or character after our trip to the finals, and the team was fragile. We didn't have enough leaders in the room to pull us through that mess.
The management of this group is and always has been the problem. It's been horrendous since PD took over.
All in all I think losing Turris and Methot hurt us very badly. They really represented the identity of this iteration of the Sens. I'm not trying to suggest that it was a mistake to not sign Turris to that deal (that's another discussion), but trading him in the manner that we did I think really rubbed our leaders the wrong way, and upset the balance in our room. Duchene probably wasn't coming into an overly positive situation. Most (including EK) were likely sour about how it all shook down, hence why they struggled mightily.
tl;dr I don't think Duchene was/is the problem at all. The Sens were a ticking time bomb after letting a few of the core guys go, and the drama that took place with EK/Hoff.
I wish the relevant question here was whether the Sens should re-sign them, but it seems the only real question is whether the players want to.
But it is an interesting question. I could definitely see a case where a respected and credible management group could make the case that look, developing in the cap era is tricky and sometimes when you are at the bottom of the standings with good players you need to tear down and start over. And we have a plan to do that and the people in place to help us get there.
But we don’t have that respectable management group. Melnyk has cost himself the ability to credibly make that case. Even if it were a good idea, no one will believe that he is doing that or has the chops to do it. It really makes the case that PR and communications from the top is not just unimportant fluff but can cost millions of dollars if not done properly. Melnyk comes across as one who made his money in pharma because of his doctor dad, and now thinks that he is genetically superior to all hockey fans and that we are all his children awaiting to hear his insightful comments.
Bu the case could be made to trade our pending ufa’s for picks and prospects and time development for after a few years of debt repayment to the people Melnyk owes money to and then become good when we move into a smaller arena, with more expensive tickets, and when the new arena debt is twice what it is now. I just wouldn’t make it.
But it is an interesting question. I could definitely see a case where a respected and credible management group could make the case that look, developing in the cap era is tricky and sometimes when you are at the bottom of the standings with good players you need to tear down and start over. And we have a plan to do that and the people in place to help us get there.
But we don’t have that respectable management group. Melnyk has cost himself the ability to credibly make that case. Even if it were a good idea, no one will believe that he is doing that or has the chops to do it. It really makes the case that PR and communications from the top is not just unimportant fluff but can cost millions of dollars if not done properly. Melnyk comes across as one who made his money in pharma because of his doctor dad, and now thinks that he is genetically superior to all hockey fans and that we are all his children awaiting to hear his insightful comments.
Bu the case could be made to trade our pending ufa’s for picks and prospects and time development for after a few years of debt repayment to the people Melnyk owes money to and then become good when we move into a smaller arena, with more expensive tickets, and when the new arena debt is twice what it is now. I just wouldn’t make it.
CTC
Registered User
- Oct 9, 2014
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This is a very solid point to make.
I am on the train of if we are scorching this mofo to the ground then we mine as well trade the assets and get solid returns and tank for the next 3-4 years and rebuild it all properly with top 5 picks for #1 positions...but it is true that if the plan is 3 seasons, they would be better players then the draft picks but then again it causes us not to draft as high as we possibly could...but then again we are in last place now with them...
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
The "we'll be competitive in 2022" is completely unrealistic. To be a top team in the NHL, you need at least 4-5 top-end players/stars. Look at the best teams this year:
Tampa: Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, Hedman, Vasilevskiy
Toronto: Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Reilly, Andersen
Winnipeg: Wheeler, Scheifele, Laine, Hellebuyck
Nashville: Josi, Subban, Rinne, Forsberg
Calgary: Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Giordano
And even with those stars + top-end supporting casts, none of those teams are a sure thing to win.
So in 3 seasons, who are our stars going to be. We have Chabot... maybe Tkachuk and Batherson pan out? But what are the odds they're ever as good as Point, Tavares, Matthews, Marner, etc? Not very good. We're not drafting a top-end prospect this year either.
CTC
Registered User
- Oct 9, 2014
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Absolutely unrealistic, its just lip service to say we have a plan, bring it down to ashes and have 4-5 years of brutal rebuilding and hope we land those top 3 picks each year and go from there. Budget aside...with all the top end talent being shipped out it seems to me that this is the only way to get back into contention and have that long lasting Pitts/Chi/TB potential for success.
JungleBeat
Registered User
Dorion is really cutting it down to the wire with all the moves that should be made. My guess is that they trade Ceci in the offseason and get an awful return for Dzingel at the deadline.
It just defies all logic there’s no plan. There’s not even a BAD plan in place lmfao.
there's a plan
1. sign them or
2. trade them
personally I'm not sure which plan is better
what NYI did with JT is no plan
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