Proposal: Would you rather? Option 1 or Option 2?

Option 1 or Option 2

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Jean Luc Discard

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I like Manson a lot, has a pretty good contract (3 years left @ $ 4.1 million), his modified NTC kicks in soon so that may complicate things if we go 7-3-1 protection route.
Would have to convince him or Yandle to waive or offer up our 1st to take lesser valued roster player.
Manson is tied for 25th in league with hits, can block shots, drop the gloves and I'd take him over Martinez fairly easily. >>>>View attachment 184419

Fun fact: Crouse is 7th in the league with hits, to go along with his 8 goals 16 pts in 53 games, +3, has more takeaways than giveaways. Slow road to a decent 3rd liner?

iirc Manson was a beast defensively in the previous season and this season has been pure trash in Anaheim due to slow and aging forward group which can't score goals. I think Dale should pick up the phone asap considering Manson's NTC in place.

Crouse will be a decent NHLer even tho it's going to take a while and he probably will not be 1st line material.
 
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TheImpatientPanther

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iirc Manson was a beast defensively in the previous season and this season has been pure trash in Anaheim due to slow and aging forward group which can't score goals. I think Dale should pick up the phone asap considering Manson's NTC in place.

Crouse will be a decent NHLer even tho it's going to take a while and he probably will not be 1st line material.

2019 1st + Pysyk/Weegar + lesser pick/prospect would be a decent offer, ANA needs more high end draft picks and Pysyk/Weegar are a decent stopgap while they develop some prospects.

Ya definitely not 1st line but maybe a late 2nd line bloomer is possible, 3rd line 30-35pt winger is more likely.
 
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Jean Luc Discard

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2019 1st + Pysyk/Weegar + lesser pick/prospect would be a decent offer, ANA needs more high end draft picks and Pysyk/Weegar are a decent stopgap while they develop some prospects.

Ya definitely not 1st line but maybe a late 2nd line bloomer is possible, 3rd line 30-35pt winger is more likely.

I'd offer them Pysyk (cap dump, a 3rd round pick at the next TDL) + Noel (better Bjugs: strong, fast but low hockey IQ. has more value on the west coast against the Kings and Sharks) + 1st 2019 for Manson + some late round pick, like 4-6th.

I'd reckon that the Cats should go with 7-3-1 on the Seattle exp draft because they should have guys like Stillman, Gildon and Schemitch ready to step into the show and thus losing either Matheson or Manson shouldn't hurt that much in the end.

Edit: I think that the Cats should put a strong emphasis on high hockey IQ and shooting ability going forward because players are adjusting to the new rules so it's easier to pick up fast skaters and big hulking players from the FA than guys who initiate and control the play and put the disc into the net.
 

TheImpatientPanther

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I'd offer them Pysyk (cap dump, a 3rd round pick at the next TDL) + Noel (better Bjugs: strong, fast but low hockey IQ. has more value on the west coast against the Kings and Sharks) + 1st 2019 for Manson + some late round pick, like 4-6th.

I'd reckon that the Cats should go with 7-3-1 on the Seattle exp draft because they should have guys like Stillman, Gildon and Schemitch ready to step into the show and thus losing either Matheson or Manson shouldn't hurt that much in the end.

Edit: I think that the Cats should put a strong emphasis on high hockey IQ and shooting ability going forward because players are adjusting to the new rules so it's easier to pick up fast skaters and big hulking players from the FA than guys who initiate and control the play and put the disc into the net.

I'd push hard to put McCoshen in over Noel.
Our LHD is stocked as you pointed out. RW not so much, I like the idea of having Hawryluk/Repo/Noel as options for the bottom 6 soon.

Noel has some versatility to his game, can score in all situations 5 on 5, PP or PK. His skating has improved, he drives to the net and isn't shy to play the body. Seems like IQ isn't an issue here.

Feel McCoshen is just in a tough spot, probably won't ever hit top 4 potential with Yandle/Matheson here, Gildon and Stillman are nearing NHL debuts. Trade Ian before his value keeps dropping, he's still young enough to be a project.
 
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Jean Luc Discard

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I'd push hard to put McCoshen in over Noel.
Our LHD is stocked as you pointed out. RW not so much, I like the idea of having Hawryluk/Repo/Noel as options for the bottom 6 soon.

Noel has some versatility to his game, can score in all situations 5 on 5, PP or PK. His skating has improved, he drives to the net and isn't shy to play the body. Seems like IQ isn't an issue here.

Feel McCoshen is just in a tough spot, probably won't ever hit top 4 potential with Yandle/Matheson here, Gildon and Stillman are nearing NHL debuts. Trade Ian before his value keeps dropping, he's still young enough to be a project.

McCoshen might not have a lot of value on the market but, sure, he can be included into a deal but I don't think he has much value as a former 2nd round pick. Fancy stats tell that his current progression is trending downwards even though he is stronger in comparison to previous season so the best thing would be to have him in the AHL for the next year or so. imo his value is close to Bystrom and the Cats signed Bystrom for nothing i.e. McCoshen doesn't have much value. But I think if McCoshen would just a concentrate on shutdown role then he would be an effective dman as a bottom pairing dman.

The Kings just got a nice haul for Muzzin and thus the Ducks might just prefer to receive something similar for Manson. I don't think McCoshen has same amount of value than what e.g. Durzi has so Noel is the preferred option from the Ducks point of view between those two.
 
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TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
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McCoshen might not have a lot of value on the market but, sure, he can be included into a deal but I don't think he has much value as a former 2nd round pick. Fancy stats tell that his current progression is trending downwards even though he is stronger in comparison to previous season so the best thing would be to have him in the AHL for the next year or so. imo his value is close to Bystrom and the Cats signed Bystrom for nothing i.e. McCoshen doesn't have much value. But I think if McCoshen would just a concentrate on shutdown role then he would be an effective dman as a bottom pairing dman.

The Kings just got a nice haul for Muzzin and thus the Ducks might just prefer to receive something similar for Manson. I don't think McCoshen has same amount of value than what e.g. Durzi has so Noel is the preferred option from the Ducks point of view between those two.

That's a fair assessment on McCoshen. I agree with it all but also our 2019 1st holds a lot more value than the TOR 1st so if we put McCoshen in with a 2020 2nd, that's still comparable value if not more considering the 1st is the most valued piece in the deal.

TOR offered a late 1st + two of their better prospects for a guy that only has one year left

where we would offer a potential top 10 pick + 2020 2nd/Pysyk + lesser 2nd round prospect which makes sense as Manson has 3 years left, we're paying higher value imo as our 1st has the better chance of becoming a NHL regular.
 
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I am not exposed

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That's a fair assessment on McCoshen. I agree with it all but also our 2019 1st holds a lot more value than the TOR 1st so if we put McCoshen in with a 2020 2nd, that's still comparable value if not more considering the 1st is the most valued piece in the deal.

TOR offered a late 1st + two of their better prospects for a guy that only has one year left

where we would offer a potential top 10 pick + 2020 2nd/Pysyk + lesser 2nd round prospect which makes sense as Manson has 3 years left, we're paying higher value imo as our 1st has the better chance of becoming a NHL regular.

You should put this offer on the trade section of the board and see what Anaheim fans think.
 
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Jean Luc Discard

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That's a fair assessment on McCoshen. I agree with it all but also our 2019 1st holds a lot more value than the TOR 1st so if we put McCoshen in with a 2020 2nd, that's still comparable value if not more considering the 1st is the most valued piece in the deal.

TOR offered a late 1st + two of their better prospects for a guy that only has one year left

where we would offer a potential top 10 pick + 2020 2nd/Pysyk + lesser 2nd round prospect which makes sense as Manson has 3 years left, we're paying higher value imo as our 1st has the better chance of becoming a NHL regular.

Sure, the 1st round pick has as of right now where the Cats are in the standings.

There's ofc the feeling the Ducks camp that they can turn their ship around fast but I think that would be a mistake from their end. They have plenty of good prospects in their AHL affiliate but I'd reckon that it's going to take them one or two years before they are able to compete again. By then guys like Manson and Lindholm might be willing to change the scenery to a contender than wait for their retool/rebuild to finalize. Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler and Fowler remain with the club in order to avoid the Ducks turning into an OilLeak of the South. Yeah. 1st + Pysyk + McCoshen (Anaheim native) should do it.
 

Jean Luc Discard

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May just main trade board thread it and see how many friends I can make with ANA fans.

The Ducks board do not really want to trade Manson away for a good reason but they are basically operating on the same level as Kekalainen is at the helm of CBJs: no foresight of what is to come and when to strike when the iron is hot. If the Ducks, Manson included, take another nosedive in the next season that'll just adds more fuel to trade talks and frustration on Manson's part. And I don't get why they are concerned about that Manson is on a cheap contract like they are on a brink of contending and they need to be frugal on cap structure. Even if their AHL prospects pan out as their projections go, there's no potential top end talent in their prospect pool. I think they make a very good when guys like Sam Steel around 23yo, around the time when Manson is about to walk out of the Ponda Center front door. Malgin for an instance is a ppg player in the AHL while Steel is lagging behind of that kind of production. In other words, the Ducks, like any other team on the brink of falling apart e.g. Mild, just have to experience more pain and suffering before they come into senses.
 
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TheImpatientPanther

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The Ducks board do not really want to trade Manson away for a good reason but they are basically operating on the same level as Kekalainen is at the helm of CBJs: no foresight of what is to come and when to strike when the iron is hot. If the Ducks, Manson included, take another nosedive in the next season that'll just adds more fuel to trade talks and frustration on Manson's part. And I don't get why they are concerned about that Manson is on a cheap contract like they are on a brink of contending and they need to be frugal on cap structure. Even if their AHL prospects pan out as their projections go, there's no potential top end talent in their prospect pool. I think they make a very good when guys like Sam Steel around 23yo, around the time when Manson is about to walk out of the Ponda Center front door. Malgin for an instance is a ppg player in the AHL while Steel is lagging behind of that kind of production. In other words, the Ducks, like any other team on the brink of falling apart e.g. Mild, just have to experience more pain and suffering before they come into senses.

Ya I tried to hint at that, they must think a 1-2 year re-tool will fix things but if their GM was smart, he'd be looking for teams that want Getzlaf/Fowler/Manson and draft/build a new culture/era for Ducks fans with those 3-4 1st round picks and 2-3 prospects they get in return. Probably a good 3-4 years before they are competitive again, they're just praying the old rollercoaster can take them around for another spin or two but we all know they need major repairs.
Sucks for Gibson because I'd offer our 2019 1st+ for him over Manson but they would be beyond stupid to trade JG.

Kesler (47 GP, 4g/6pts) and Perry (4 GP, 1 assist) are shells of themselves eating up $15 million in cap. Even Getz is getting tired (49 GP, 11g/ 34pts) still a decent season for him but he's gonna be 34 soon.
 

Jean Luc Discard

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Ya I tried to hint at that, they must think a 1-2 year re-tool will fix things but if their GM was smart, he'd be looking for teams that want Getzlaf/Fowler/Manson and draft/build a new culture/era for Ducks fans with those 3-4 1st round picks and 2-3 prospects they get in return. Probably a good 3-4 years before they are competitive again, they're just praying the old rollercoaster can take them around for another spin or two but we all know they need major repairs.
Sucks for Gibson because I'd offer our 2019 1st+ for him over Manson but they would be beyond stupid to trade JG.

Kesler (47 GP, 4g/6pts) and Perry (4 GP, 1 assist) are shells of themselves eating up $15 million in cap. Even Getz is getting tired (49 GP, 11g/ 34pts) still a decent season for him but he's gonna be 34 soon.

Perry is just a corpse out there. Kesler is walking on one leg. Getz knows that the end for this era is close at hand. And now Bob Murray doubled down on this aging "core" by signing Henrique for a 5-year deal. This season is just the beginning for the Ducks rebuild because they are relying on 19-21yo kids to step up and act as top line players while Getz and Perry assume 3rd line roles. It's just not going to happen. They should trade Manson and Lindholm in order to bulk on talent but before that can happen they have to come in terms with the reality that their days for being a playoff team is 3-4 years away just like you said.

Going for some quick fix is just going to prolong the process because the extreme example of this approach was what Chiarelli was trying to do: moving pieces at the cost of diluting value, addressing issues on area A by moving value away from area B and in the process creating a lack of value on area B, etc. Gibson will like 29yo when they could potentially be competitive again but I'm pretty sure a millionaire isn't going to lose his sleep over this.

Manson for a 1st 2019 + Pysyk + McCoshen is a solid deal all things considered and imo later that 1st is going to be two 2nds or sumptin' like that, and so forth...
 
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TheImpatientPanther

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Perry is just a corpse out there. Kesler is walking on one leg. Getz knows that the end for this era is close at hand. And now Bob Murray doubled down on this aging "core" by signing Henrique for a 5-year deal. This season is just the beginning for the Ducks rebuild because they are relying on 19-21yo kids to step up and act as top line players while Getz and Perry assume 3rd line roles. It's just not going to happen. They should trade Manson and Lindholm in order to bulk on talent but before that can happen they have to come in terms with the reality that their days for being a playoff team is 3-4 years away just like you said.

Going for some quick fix is just going to prolong the process because the extreme example of this approach was what Chiarelli was trying to do: moving pieces at the cost of diluting value, addressing issues on area A by moving value away from area B and in the process creating a lack of value on area B, etc. Gibson will like 29yo when they could potentially be competitive again but I'm pretty sure a millionaire isn't going to lose his sleep over this.

Manson for a 1st 2019 + Pysyk + McCoshen is a solid deal all things considered and imo later that 1st is going to be two 2nds or sumptin' like that, and so forth...

Feel DET is in the similar position, hence the Nielsen signing and the DeKeyser and Abdelkader re-signings. Holding on way too long and now suffering a bit longer than they probably needed to. EDM just was a total shitshow and Chia has been known to do some questionable things. Most don't even credit him for the BOS cup, the real guy was O'Conell no? Just look at pre and post Chia GM drafts.

O'Conell was Bruins GM from 2000-2005 - Mark Stuart/P. Bergeron 2003, Hunwick/Versteeg/Krejci 2004, then Gorton was hired as interim GM for 3 months in early 2005 and signed Chara as a free agent.


Then Chia walked into the role in 2006 and Kessel, Lucic and Marchand fell in his lap in that draft alone.
Outside of Seguin in 2010, Hamilton in 2011 and Pastrnak in 2014, 90% of his draft picks never played more than 200 games.

I'm confident in Tallon with trades, signings are his major downfall.
 

I am not exposed

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Ya I tried to hint at that, they must think a 1-2 year re-tool will fix things but if their GM was smart, he'd be looking for teams that want Getzlaf/Fowler/Manson and draft/build a new culture/era for Ducks fans with those 3-4 1st round picks and 2-3 prospects they get in return. Probably a good 3-4 years before they are competitive again, they're just praying the old rollercoaster can take them around for another spin or two but we all know they need major repairs.
Sucks for Gibson because I'd offer our 2019 1st+ for him over Manson but they would be beyond stupid to trade JG.

Kesler (47 GP, 4g/6pts) and Perry (4 GP, 1 assist) are shells of themselves eating up $15 million in cap. Even Getz is getting tired (49 GP, 11g/ 34pts) still a decent season for him but he's gonna be 34 soon.

Indeed they would! Would love to have Gibson. Gibson > Bob.
 
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Jean Luc Discard

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Feel DET is in the similar position, hence the Nielsen signing and the DeKeyser and Abdelkader re-signings. Holding on way too long and now suffering a bit longer than they probably needed to. EDM just was a total ****show and Chia has been known to do some questionable things. Most don't even credit him for the BOS cup, the real guy was O'Conell no? Just look at pre and post Chia GM drafts.

O'Conell was Bruins GM from 2000-2005 - Mark Stuart/P. Bergeron 2003, Hunwick/Versteeg/Krejci 2004, then Gorton was hired as interim GM for 3 months in early 2005 and signed Chara as a free agent.

Then Chia walked into the role in 2006 and Kessel, Lucic and Marchand fell in his lap in that draft alone.
Outside of Seguin in 2010 and Pastrnak in 2015, 90% of his draft picks never played more than 200 games.

I'm confident in Tallon with trades, signings are his major downfall.

Even though Holland signed a bunch of vets in Detoilet for long term contracts, I don't think they are in a bad spot especially considering what kind of a draft they had in 2018 (both Zadina and Veleno, conspiracy?). Cholowski, Hronek and McIsaac should be a good trio to start establishing a defense core. DRW's success 10-15 years ago was basically built on Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lids who were late round picks and similar success is really hard to replicate on a consistent basis because word get around on how to draft and develop. Nowadays there's just no way around of embracing the tank if a team wants to be successful. For an instance, the Ducks drafted this Lundestrom kid in the previous draft and they immediately tried to slot him into their lineup in the hopes of some much needed goal scoring... hasn't scored a goal this season with the exception of junior championship comps. It just reeks desperation of trying to figure out some quick fix in order to keep Bob Murray employed with the Ducks org.

Basically any team that's demanding top of the line picks 'n then some for a guy like Manson, who effective in his role but not some game changer, is really trying make the other team do their tanking for them.

Yup, Chiarelli was taking advantage of being the wrong guy at right place at the right time.

I think Dale should just sign Stone or Bread and that should be it for the Panthers' FA market adventures. Signing Bob feels like stepping into a world of pain: Bob tied up a $11mil per for eight years and never gets back to above .910 save% with this Panther defense.
 

TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
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Even though Holland signed a bunch of vets in Detoilet for long term contracts, I don't think they are in a bad spot especially considering what kind of a draft they had in 2018 (both Zadina and Veleno, conspiracy?). Cholowski, Hronek and McIsaac should be a good trio to start establishing a defense core. DRW's success 10-15 years ago was basically built on Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lids who were late round picks and similar success is really hard to replicate on a consistent basis because word get around on how to draft and develop. Nowadays there's just no way around of embracing the tank if a team wants to be successful. For an instance, the Ducks drafted this Lundestrom kid in the previous draft and they immediately tried to slot him into their lineup in the hopes of some much needed goal scoring... hasn't scored a goal this season with the exception of junior championship comps. It just reeks desperation of trying to figure out some quick fix in order to keep Bob Murray employed with the Ducks org.

Basically any team that's demanding top of the line picks 'n then some for a guy like Manson, who effective in his role but not some game changer, is really trying make the other team do their tanking for them.

Yup, Chiarelli was taking advantage of being the wrong guy at right place at the right time.

I think Dale should just sign Stone or Bread and that should be it for the Panthers' FA market adventures. Signing Bob feels like stepping into a world of pain: Bob tied up a $11mil per for eight years and never gets back to above .910 save% with this Panther defense.

Oh I agree DET is in good shape but can you imagine if they decided to re-tool a year or two earlier? They just need some quality defensemen drafted and they aren't far off from competing for a WC spot. Trouba could easily be traded there just don't know if he's up for more snow even if it's his home state.

They should pick up a couple more 2nd or 3rd round picks and have 5-6 selections in the first 3 rounds. I think Tallon feels the heat as BUF shouldn't stumble too much longer with OTT being the only team that is clearly 3 years away from anything relevant. The Atlantic is going to be the toughest division going forward. I hope the Bob/Panarin duo isn't Tallon's only move/thought. He needs to make sure this is his best off-season as GM or it may be his last.
 

Beezer

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So they take what they can get from us before deadline or they will get no return for him on July 1st


Think Brassard n pick get it done. If not, then we wait a few months.
 

Jean Luc Discard

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Oh I agree DET is in good shape but can you imagine if they decided to re-tool a year or two earlier? They just need some quality defensemen drafted and they aren't far off from competing for a WC spot. Trouba could easily be traded there just don't know if he's up for more snow even if it's his home state.

They should pick up a couple more 2nd or 3rd round picks and have 5-6 selections in the first 3 rounds. I think Tallon feels the heat as BUF shouldn't stumble too much longer with OTT being the only team that is clearly 3 years away from anything relevant. The Atlantic is going to be the toughest division going forward. I hope the Bob/Panarin duo isn't Tallon's only move/thought. He needs to make sure this is his best off-season as GM or it may be his last.

DET has been retooling/rebuilding for a while now already because guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Frk, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Sproul, Ouellet, Mrazek, Nestrasil, etc were supposed form the next core but that didn't work out. Kinda like the Panthers were trying to establish with Guds, Bjugs, Petrovic, Howden, McFarland, Grimaldi, etc. Ofc, Troch and Hubs are still around so not an entirely 100% failure by Tallon but close.

Dale should trade the 1st overall pick only if there's somewhat mid-long term solution available for RD and load up on 3rd-7th round picks if possible. It's rather amusing the Dale even entertains himself and the fans by spewing bs like "it takes months, even years to mesh well. scoring is tough, guys need to learn the hard way"... and then e.g. the Habs are 16pts on top of the Cats. I'm not sure if Dale is the best snakeoil salesman in the hockey biz or the ownership is so incompetent that they have no viable options available to replace Dale... probably a combination of the two.
 

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