Would you play in the NHL or NFL?

PhoPhan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
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See now that's reasonable and I think you'll find few here who disagree with that. However, you initially were not being reasonable, you were being ridiculous. I'm happy to read the writings of level-headed and rational Pho again. You were starting to smell like you spent too much time in a political forum. :p

What did I say that was irrational or ridiculous? I understand you guys didn't like my rhetoric, but I was pretty taken aback to find there was any resistance to my initial premise, which I thought was fairly tame.

I disagree with you on this part though, I personally do not think being weak of mind and body is progressive nor does it move us in the right direction. It's very possible to be strong yet honorable, tough yet empathetic, etc. Basically all I'm saying is that you don't have to be a ***** in order to be sensitive to the people around you. :nod:

You guys are losing me with the abstraction and ideology. Can you explain to me a) how modernity is feminizing people in any way and b) why that is inherently problematic?
 

KG

Registered User
Sep 23, 2010
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You guys are losing me with the abstraction and ideology. Can you explain to me a) how modernity is feminizing people in any way and b) why that is inherently problematic?

I'm not entirely familiar with the argument, but it has been gaining traction around academia. It seems to center primarily on the ridiculous suspensions being handed out to young boys. For example recently when two kids were suspended for playing with a toy gun in their front yard near a school bus stop. See the book: the war against boys
 

CC96

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Nov 6, 2012
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I'm not entirely familiar with the argument, but it has been gaining traction around academia. It seems to center primarily on the ridiculous suspensions being handed out to young boys. For example recently when two kids were suspended for playing with a toy gun in their front yard near a school bus stop. See the book: the war against boys

Yeah, that's absolutely ridiculous about those boys getting suspended.
 

PhoPhan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
14,724
100
I'm not entirely familiar with the argument, but it has been gaining traction around academia. It seems to center primarily on the ridiculous suspensions being handed out to young boys. For example recently when two kids were suspended for playing with a toy gun in their front yard near a school bus stop. See the book: the war against boys

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm looking for data or something empirical, not anecdotes.
 

ClassLessCoyote

Staying classy
Jun 10, 2009
30,112
277
I'll just say this.

Laws of any kind don't stop people in general from breaking the law. Only law abiders stop themselves from breaking the law. At best, the right written laws and proper enforcement of those laws will reduce the bad shots and injuries as a result of but neither will go away for good. Of course as well, that is if you get the right kind of laws written and the proper enforcement.

Sadly today in the business world, most policy and rule makers are psychotic, grey-area impaired nutjobs who don't make the right rules and policies. In addition, since company law(unlike written law) doesn't have to be applied fairly or at all, we can continue to see not only unfairness in the league but not see a very sharp decline in head shots as well.
 
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KG

Registered User
Sep 23, 2010
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Sorry if I was unclear. I'm looking for data or something empirical, not anecdotes.

There's a number of books on the subject. I trust you know how to google. I even mentioned one in my post that you conveniently overlooked.
 

PhoPhan

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Feb 27, 2002
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There's a number of books on the subject. I trust you know how to google. I even mentioned one in my post that you conveniently overlooked.

I didn't overlook it. From what I can tell, the subject matter focuses on how boys are falling behind girls in a number of key metrics, which suggests to me not that boys are being overly feminized but that maybe they're not being feminized enough.
 

KG

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Sep 23, 2010
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I didn't overlook it. From what I can tell, the subject matter focuses on how boys are falling behind girls in a number of key metrics, which suggests to me not that boys are being overly feminized but that maybe they're not being feminized enough.

Look at related books on Amazon. This is being discussed heavily in psychology right now.
 

PhoPhan

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Feb 27, 2002
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Look at related books on Amazon. This is being discussed heavily in psychology right now.

I understand it's being discussed, but everything I've read is more often than not a thinly veiled, poorly argued critique of feminism in general (with little or no evidence for any actual "feminization").

I'm really not trying to be condescending here. If you can point me toward actual evidence, I'd be happy to read it (though I'm in no hurry to pony up $30 for a pop psych hardcover). The arguments I've seen to this point are not very compelling though.
 

KG

Registered User
Sep 23, 2010
4,869
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I understand it's being discussed, but everything I've read is more often than not a thinly veiled, poorly argued critique of feminism in general (with little or no evidence for any actual "feminization").

If you can point me toward actual evidence, I'd be happy to read it (though I'm in no hurry to pony up $30 for a pop psych hardcover). The arguments I've seen to this point are not very compelling though.

As I said, I'm not entirely familiar with the subject. The only things I know about it are from those books and a couple discussions. Those books are written by PHD's though so I'm fairly confident they're peer-reviewed and well-sourced. You are of course free to disagree with those sources and methods.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
54,886
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I understand it's being discussed, but everything I've read is more often than not a thinly veiled, poorly argued critique of feminism in general (with little or no evidence for any actual "feminization").

I'm really not trying to be condescending here. If you can point me toward actual evidence, I'd be happy to read it (though I'm in no hurry to pony up $30 for a pop psych hardcover). The arguments I've seen to this point are not very compelling though.



tl;dr overstimulation and the move to digital communication affects men more then women in modern society.
 

PhoPhan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
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100


tl;dr overstimulation and the move to digital communication affects men more then women in modern society.


Watched the whole thing, but I'm not really sure how this is relevant to the topic at hand? Men falling behind women doesn't have anything to do with feminization or "p***yfication" or anything like that, and it seems to suggest (to me, at least) that masculine culture needs to be moderated, not intensified. More specifically, Zimbardo (whose work I generally respect) seems to be arguing that modern technology is creating delusional standards and antisocial sexuality among men. That doesn't sound like anything close to what Sinurgy was arguing.
 
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Sinurgy

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Feb 8, 2004
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What did I say that was irrational or ridiculous? I understand you guys didn't like my rhetoric, but I was pretty taken aback to find there was any resistance to my initial premise, which I thought was fairly tame.
If there was a tame initial premise, it was completely lost in your over the top rhetoric.

You guys are losing me with the abstraction and ideology. Can you explain to me a) how modernity is feminizing people in any way and b) why that is inherently problematic?
I was merely refuting your attitude that basically being "manly" or whatever you want to call it is caveman'ish, a relic, something to be fixed. I'm saying that's complete ********.

I didn't overlook it. From what I can tell, the subject matter focuses on how boys are falling behind girls in a number of key metrics, which suggests to me not that boys are being overly feminized but that maybe they're not being feminized enough.
Yes...that's definitely the case...boys are simply not being feminized enough. In fact, we should just perform castration and hormone therapy from an early age, that ought to do it! :facepalm:
 

MP

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
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Yes...that's definitely the case...boys are simply not being feminized enough. In fact, we should just perform castration and hormone therapy from an early age, that ought to do it! :facepalm:
Wh... What?
 

PhoPhan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
14,724
100
I was merely refuting your attitude that basically being "manly" or whatever you want to call it is caveman'ish, a relic, something to be fixed. I'm saying that's complete ********.

That's not even close to what I was saying.

Yes...that's definitely the case...boys are simply not being feminized enough. In fact, we should just perform castration and hormone therapy from an early age, that ought to do it! :facepalm:

Again, not at all what I was saying. Being "manly" isn't "caveman'ish." Discussing femininity as an inherently bad quality is.
 

Sinurgy

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That's not even close to what I was saying.

Again, not at all what I was saying. Being "manly" isn't "caveman'ish." Discussing femininity as an inherently bad quality is.
Well if that's not what you were meaning then I guess never mind.

Femininity is not an inherently bad quality but it's also not an inherently good quality.
 

Lilhoody

Registered User
Nov 25, 2016
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Peoria, AZ
Nice! Thanks for clearing this up, Sinurgy. I'm glad we settled the controversial question of "Are people willing to play professional sports?"

Can your next poll be "Given the choice, would you rather have chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or not?"

I understood CTE was the point of the poll and answered yes. I never thought it was misrepresented.



A current and interesting documentary, which touches the topic of this thread.
 
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Ebb

the nondescript
Dec 22, 2015
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PA
Well, I wasn't a member back in 2013, so I'll go right ahead and answer it now :)

Although hockey was not big where I grew up in the midwest, I'd take a shot at it if I had the opportunity. If anything, you can make good money over a short period of time and retire whenever your body starts to lag behind (hopefully avoiding major serious injuries). Retiring at 34 (if lucky to last that long) or so sounds pretty good if you get out without lifelong conditions.

I did play football in junior high (1 year) and high school (1.5 years) and made it out mostly unscathed (besides an unintentional helmet to the side of my knee that still acts up on occasion). I also had a serious ankle injury one year (the only remaining after effect of that is that it cracks more than my other ankle.

Now, I only ice skated once in my life and ended up with a concussion, so perhaps hockey would not be a good fit for me, but I'd probably risk it if I ever had the skill.
 

Heldig

Registered User
Apr 12, 2002
16,885
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BC
Super easy YES answer for me.

I have had multiple concussions, broken bones, and torn ligaments paying to play the sport (hockey). It would have been be a dream come true to be paid to play it.

Dipping my toe into all the philosophical discussion, I stopped playing hockey when I started to be expected to fight. That was not my passion for the sport. I was a rough and tumble guy that loved the physical part of the game, the competitiveness, the camaraderie, but was not a fighter. In my league fighting got you 5 minutes and a game. Paying to play it made no sense to me to willingly get kicked out of a game. I also knew I had no shot at moving up to a higher level of play ie no chance to play professionally. If not fighting was the only thing that held me back maybe I would have started to keep pursuing the dream. Can't imagine I would have had the passion and dedication to continue if I was just a goon.
 

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