Salary Cap: Would you or wouldn't you?

Colorado Avalanche

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At some point there has to be a bubble burst in the market. I suppose now is as good a time as any, it just always seems to be the Avs on the losing end of cap-related precedents.

If ROR turns UFA and goes to a team like Buffalo that can afford to pay him 7.5-8mil, we may see more star but not elite-level talents take their skates elsewhere and shake up the market.

And then once that happens, every team capable of operating close to the cap will be. Players that want high salaries will be stuck because the league will be as saturated at the cap level as a fan-made sim league. I would assume the hurt will then fall to the non-star players. Your 2nd and 3rd liner salary will drop to compensate for the 1st liners making 8-10mil.

If your entire top line, top pairing and starter made an average of 8mil, that's over half of your cap right there. Less than 2mil left per player after.

Of course, but I would rather do it with a player like Johnson, who actually deserves the money. ROR not so much.
 

Colorado Avalanche

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If I could go in the time machine and see EJ, Barrie and MacKinnon sign fair but good contracts, see McGinn, Tanguay and Iginla replaced by players that are the same price or cheaper with no drop off, that we don't need to overpay and UFAs to fix our defense and see all of Bigras, Bleackley and #10 prove to be cost effective pieces for our lineup then yes I'd pay ROR that contract.

Yeah, the truth is we need to manage contracts and ROR is just asking too much. He obviously wants out, because there's no way we can offer that to ROR, I think Avalanche offered Stastny little bit more term, but less money per season than St.LOuis.. If they werent willing to go 7 million with Stastny, they are not going to do it with ROR either. Very similar players imo.
 

tucker3434

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I don't see how we could pay ROR, fix the defense, and hand out all the other extensions, but I'm not I. The room. Maybe he brass has a trick up their sleeve I'm not aware of.
 

5280

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Yeah, the truth is we need to manage contracts and ROR is just asking too much. He obviously wants out, because there's no way we can offer that to ROR, I think Avalanche offered Stastny little bit more term, but less money per season than St.LOuis.. If they werent willing to go 7 million with Stastny, they are not going to do it with ROR either. Very similar players imo.

I'd argue that he just wants market value.

Also, speaking of Stastny....can they afford to lose two defensively responsible centers two years in a row?

Mack and Dutchy down the middle just scares me for some reason.
 

agentblack

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I wish the Mack scares people defensively talk would stop, if the kid cant play C at the NHL level we never should have drafted him instead of Jones , im sorry.
 

AslanRH

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Absolutely depends on the return, and unless it is a very good return, I'd be happy to let him sit without a new contract for a few months as well. Worst case I take a rental package by the deadline for him.

Just don't care anymore
 

FoppaForsberg*

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It is scary now... but it isn't long term. MacK is going to be pretty good defensively in another season or two.

Yup, with his hockey IQ, speed, and drive to win I fully expect him to be good defensively. Not Bergeron or even close to it, but good. He was a great all around player in junior. With offensive players like MacK, the defense takes some time to come around.

As for ROR, trade him. use that money for defense and depth, we need both badly.
 

AllAboutAvs

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Absolute max I would give him is 7M but I think his fair value right now is 6.75M.
 

The Mars Volchenkov

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We're a worse team long term with Zads++ than with ROR re-signed at 7.5
We're going to be a worse team no matter what when we trade ROR, unless some team offers up a legit top 3 defenseman. But how do we improve the defense with all of our big guys signed and no wiggle room? Pray that Bigras and the other defensive prospects hit their max potential ASAP?
 

Tru

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First, I think $7.5M AAV is fair without the NTC. If we want to add the NTC, it should bring his AAV down a bit.

Sign him. He's been our #1 ice-time forward the past 2 years and has excelled in every role he's had to play here. He's better than MacK and Duchene, at this point. It will simply be too hard to replace that, and a few years down the road, I feel at $7.5M, he will be at great value status.
 

cgf

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We're going to be a worse team no matter what when we trade ROR, unless some team offers up a legit top 3 defenseman. But how do we improve the defense with all of our big guys signed and no wiggle room? Pray that Bigras and the other defensive prospects hit their max potential ASAP?

There's still room to sign a UFA this summer. And yes, drafting better than we did wouldn't hurt either.
 

Freudian

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I would want a sign that he wants to be a part of the team and is willing to buy in to commit to him.

If he's going to pull the same crap as the other two times where he has to 'win' at all costs, he's not someone I'm comfortable building around. Especially seeing as better players on the team are willing to buy in.

So while the difference between $7M/year and $7.5M/year is only $500k, it's a big difference in the how the player views himself and the team.

Ryan O'Reilly is the 5th/6th best/most important player on the team and if he has a hard time accepting this, time for him to go elsewhere.
 

Lonewolfe2015

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We're going to be a worse team no matter what when we trade ROR, unless some team offers up a legit top 3 defenseman. But how do we improve the defense with all of our big guys signed and no wiggle room? Pray that Bigras and the other defensive prospects hit their max potential ASAP?

The only way we come out of this for the better (imo) is if we swap ROR's 7.5mil salary for another 1st, a young player with upside and anything else is gravy. Then go out and sign Sekera to 6-6.5mil.

We've seen before (Stastny left, Iginla brought in) that Sakic/Roy won't sit on a boatload of cash or let a player leaving create a big void. I think if ROR is traded elsewhere, Sakic/Roy will be all in on getting a replacement player for the salary figure they were willing to commit to ROR.
 

StayAtHomeAv

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Keep him. 7.5 is fair for an elite 2way defensive minded player. That's just where these contracts are going. Those guys are pretty rare and needed for a championship caliber team as well. And I just don't trust that MacK or Duchene will ever be a top notch defender. They might be average or even above average one day, but teams need that center/line that can straight shutdown the opponents best line. RoR , Lando and MacK, especially once MacK's 2way game comes around and he becomes better/more consistent offensively is a damn good 2way shutdown line.

Scoring top6 center
2way elite defensive top6 center
True #1 Dman
Good #2 complimentary to #1 creating a great top pair
High end goalie (or at least ne that steps their game up in playoffs)

All are just as important as the next in order to have a championship caliber team. And all we are missing is the #2 guy along with depth (but that's not really about individuals, but more as a group) Trading RoR MIGHT fill the #2 hole, but it WILL create another. We would then be lacking the much needed 2way elite defensive center.

The only way we come out of this for the better (imo) is if we swap ROR's 7.5mil salary for another 1st, a young player with upside and anything else is gravy. Then go out and sign Sekera to 6-6.5mil.

We've seen before (Stastny left, Iginla brought in) that Sakic/Roy won't sit on a boatload of cash or let a player leaving create a big void. I think if ROR is traded elsewhere, Sakic/Roy will be all in on getting a replacement player for the salary figure they were willing to commit to ROR.

That replacement player isn't going to be worth what they are willing to pay RoR (6.5 apparently). So we save 1million on the cap. Yay, now we have a borderline tweener making 6.5million as our 2C. Awesome:sarcasm:

I would much rather have RoR, who is a legit top6 player and one of the best defensive minded 2way players in the game, make 7.5 (fair for his role and where contracts are going) than overpay for one of these lesser guys who ideally are 3rd line players. We can save that million dollars somewhere else. This whole idea that it's ok to overpay for a player as long as they fit the cap structure is hurting the team. This is why we are at the cap and not even a playoff team. We are paying Stuart like a middle pair guy, but he should be used on the 3rd only (and PK of course). We are paying Berra fairly for a good proven backup, but he isn't really proven at all and the jury is out on if he can be a good backup. We can find a 4th line grinder/agitator for a million or less, but instead we give McLeod 30% more than that. If we sign Vermette/Soderberg they too should only make about 5million (fair for a great 3C), but we're talking 6.5 for them. And then our top6 really isn't even good enough to be a contender.
 
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Meeqs

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For me it all comes down to where we allocate our cap to through out the line up. RoR isn't more important to the Avs than Duchene, Mackinnon or Gabe. He also isn't as valuable as Ej, Barrie or Varly. So assuming we keep all of these guys then signing RoR to that deal makes the Avs a very top heavy team in terms of cap alignment.

Taking a step back when we look at the past 8 SCF winners we notice that they are all very deep teams with very few players on big deals. They are all especially deep on D. If the Avs trade RoR then they take a massive step towards creating a team that fits this mold, while if they sign RoR they would be more top heavy than any team that has been able to win in the past 8 years.

I LOVE RoR as a player possibly more than any other fan but you don't give a player who is 6th on your depth chart that wont put up over 60 points 7.5m contracts.
 

Meeqs

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I'd argue that he just wants market value.

Also, speaking of Stastny....can they afford to lose two defensively responsible centers two years in a row?

Mack and Dutchy down the middle just scares me for some reason.

With Duchene, Mackinnon and now Soderberg down the middle the Avs have a strong center core. The loss of a strong 2 way player will hurt but it can be replaced by spending that money on actually good defensemen and solid bottom 6 players.
 

Meeqs

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I'd argue that he just wants market value.

Also, speaking of Stastny....can they afford to lose two defensively responsible centers two years in a row?

Mack and Dutchy down the middle just scares me for some reason.

It is going to scare every team the Avs face in 3 years too
 

Meeqs

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I wish the Mack scares people defensively talk would stop, if the kid cant play C at the NHL level we never should have drafted him instead of Jones , im sorry.

The kid won calder and had a sophomore slump after an offseason plan (which was actually pretty awesome in thought) didn't plan out. He reminds me a ton of Seguin who played on the 3rd line and wing for the B's for 3ish years, and look how that guy turned out. Also don't forget what Mackinnon did in the playoffs his rookie year (ask STL if it was Stastny who got him those points or not)
 

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