Would you extend Nyquist?

[Shaman464]

He just had his best season since his crazy rookie season IMO. Gus was fantastic this past season. I was impressed with him night in and night out.

His best since his rookie season was his sophomore season by far. His last season was actually, in my mind, one of his worst, and in fact I can prove it with a telling stat.

Last season all of his points came in 37% of games.
Percentage of games Nyquist had points in:
17-18: 37%
16-17: 44%
15-16: 42%
14-15: 50%
13-14: 57%

Nyquists game to game consistency has dropped since his rookie season, to this season where most his points came in less than 2/5th of games he played in. This is at the same time his points per game have dropped, has Corsi has dropped. Basically his game to game consistency and his ability to drive play have both gotten worse.

 

[TheMule93]

His best since his rookie season was his sophomore season by far. His last season was actually, in my mind, one of his worst, and in fact I can prove it with a telling stat.

Last season all of his points came in 37% of games.
Percentage of games Nyquist had points in:
17-18: 37%
16-17: 44%
15-16: 42%
14-15: 50%
13-14: 57%

Nyquists game to game consistency has dropped since his rookie season, to this season where most his points came in less than 2/5th of games he played in. This is at the same time his points per game have dropped, has Corsi has dropped. Basically his game to game consistency and his ability to drive play have both gotten worse.

Ok but I actually watched him and thought he had his best season in quite some time

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Definitely don't let him walk.

I wouldn't be against trading and re-signing, but with Holland the danger is he comes back for 6 years at $6 million AAV with a full NTC.

Considering he played with Zetterberg all the time, I wouldn't be surprised if this season for Nyquist was underwhelming.

 

[Snuggs]

Have to trade him, He'll almost for sure be wanted by some cup contending teams ( Maple Leafs, Ducks, Jets, Predators). He's also not worth the money imo, 3-4 million average... all day, but he'll never sign to that early and will for sure test the market imo.

The real move is can Holland package these forwards(Including Nyquist) for a top defensemen? I don't hate the idea of working with the Jets to get Trouba.

 

[Shaman464]

Ok but I actually watched him and thought he had his best season in quite some time

I watched him too and I thought he looked like a perimeter player that had very little impact in most of the games he played in.

 

[haulinbass]

Getting a 1st or a couple 2nds out of him would be ideal. We don't have much for assets left that can fetch us these picks, we certainly need another waive of additional high picks to load up the pool.

Signing him for 3 years at a reasonable cap rate wouldn't be the worst idea. Anymore than 3 years and you absolutely trade him. Hopefully guys like Zadina, Ras, Hronek, Cholowski, etc will be due for significant raises within the next 3-5 seasons. Nyquist likely doesn't have much more than 3 decent seasons left in him. We are likely not competing within the next 3 years. Beyond those 3 years (considering things go well enough) we should be competing, we don't need a dead contract right when we begin becoming competitive. That is just stupid. You take risks like this to hold key players together during competitive windows, not before.

People debating if Nyquist is at that age of decline just don't get it. 29 is not young anymore. Yes, elite level talents can still be good into their mid+ 30s. Guys like Nyquist who averaged around 45 points per season are not typically productive by mid 30s. There is a chance Nyquist isn't even in the NHL by the age of 35. Could Nyquist still be producing decent points by the end of a 5 year contract, maybe but its very unlikely. Just look around for proof. Guys who are still around and producing by that age typically were stars. A very few percent of all NHLers at around Nyquist talent level are still producing at a top six rate by mid 30s. To fully understand this, instead of finding the low percent of guys in the NHL who can still produce, go track down how many who don't produce or better yet aren't even in the NHL anymore.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Wow. So you're saying it wasn't your playoff streak as well? You weren't cheering for the team during that time? Neat.

Your incredulity - while touching - is misplaced. I said on this board as soon as the Nashville series was over that it was clear to me that our run was pretty much over and it would be more productive to focus on acquiring the next generation of players who would once again allow us to reasonably expect to go on a deep playoff run. So no, I didn't take great pride in making the playoffs with the obvious outcome being cannon fodder in 5 or 6 games max. I didn't cheer for making the playoffs - one year my suggestion for a playoff avatar was "Curb Your Enthusiasm". That very well may have been the year Nyquist saved our playoff bacon.

Cheering for a team can be complicated, particularly when you could see the eventual end result of the current sad state of the franchise while lots of people were giving Kenny plaudits for taking a top 5 team and turning it into one of the five worst teams in the league.

I am clearly a fan: I watch/attend the games and post on a forum when said franchise is clearly one of the worst in the league. So if you are expecting me to turn in my fan card because I don't view the franchise through rose-tinted glasses my sincere advice would be for you to not hold your breath.

 

[RedMenace]

Your incredulity - while touching - is misplaced. I said on this board as soon as the Nashville series was over that it was clear to me that our run was pretty much over and it would be more productive to focus on acquiring the next generation of players who would once again allow us to reasonably expect to go on a deep playoff run. So no, I didn't take great pride in making the playoffs with the obvious outcome being cannon fodder in 5 or 6 games max. I didn't cheer for making the playoffs - one year my suggestion for a playoff avatar was "Curb Your Enthusiasm". That very well may have been the year Nyquist saved our playoff bacon.

Good for you! You should be hired by the Red Wings for your incredible hockey knowledge. I expect to see headlines stating "Red Wings Hire Random Hockey Forum Member Because Their Hindsight Proved Correct Years Later" in the Free Press during the coming weeks...

... oh no, wait: You guessed and were right. You didn't want the Wings to be competitive, make the playoffs, and continue "other peoples' streak," and now you want to gloat about it? Awesome.

Cheering for a team can be complicated, particularly when you could see the eventual end result of the current sad state of the franchise while lots of people were giving Kenny plaudits for taking a top 5 team and turning it into one of the five worst teams in the league.

Spare me the condescension, Killer Mike. You took a stance and were proven correct, but that doesn't invalidate other people thinking or hoping there might have been a different path.

I am clearly a fan: I watch/attend the games and post on a forum when said franchise is clearly one of the worst in the league. So if you are expecting me to turn in my fan card because I don't view the franchise through rose-tinted glasses my sincere advice would be for you to not hold your breath.

Clearly, on all counts.

I'm sorry, did I tell you how to cheer for a team? I made a statement based on your (years long, by your own words) negativity, nothing more. By all means, keep "cheering" for the team however you see fit; however, my advice for you is that some people are tired of the constant negativity on this board, and perhaps you should know that by now.

P.S. - Anything Larry David touches ("Curb Your Enthusiasm," "Seinfeld," etc) is terrible. There's my negativity for the evening.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Good for you! You should be hired by the Red Wings for your incredible hockey knowledge. I expect to see headlines stating "Red Wings Hire Random Hockey Forum Member Because Their Hindsight Proved Correct Years Later" in the Free Press during the coming weeks...

... oh no, wait: You guessed and were right. You didn't want the Wings to be competitive, make the playoffs, and continue "other peoples' streak," and now you want to gloat about it? Awesome.



Spare me the condescension, Killer Mike. You took a stance and were proven correct, but that doesn't invalidate other people thinking or hoping there might have been a different path.



Clearly, on all counts.

I'm sorry, did I tell you how to cheer for a team? I made a statement based on your (years long, by your own words) negativity, nothing more. By all means, keep "cheering" for the team however you see fit; however, my advice for you is that some people are tired of the constant negativity on this board, and perhaps you should know that by now.

P.S. - Anything Larry David touches ("Curb Your Enthusiasm," "Seinfeld," etc) is terrible. There's my negativity for the evening.

That's the problem with the cheerleaders: even when I'm right they whine about the negativity. The truth hurts I guess. I wasn't negative about this past draft. I'm positively giddy about the fact we are so awful we should have great odds at drafting a franchise making center.

 

[jkutswings]

...my advice for you is that some people are tired of the constant negativity on this board, and perhaps you should know that by now.

You're miffed that people are negative about a sports team?

*peers at last year's standings*
*checks this year's roster*

I mean, groaning about the local sports team is so common that it's borderline cliche. Especially when it's a bad team.

Now if a fan was Mister Negative to the point of saying there wasn't a single redeeming quality about any player on the team, they'll never be any good, and they're better off being sold and moved out of town...ok, that's needless hyperbole that gets old.

But griping about a bad 5 years, where the GM made a bunch of moves you didn't like, things turned out poorly, and the guy is still in town, making moves you might not like? C'mon now.

 

[Red Stanley]

Right now, option #3. That may change to #4 by the end of the upcoming draft, if our team looks like it might be on the upswing for the '19-'20 season.

 

[KJoe88]

You're miffed that people are negative about a sports team?

*peers at last year's standings*
*checks this year's roster*

I mean, groaning about the local sports team is so common that it's borderline cliche. Especially when it's a bad team.

Now if a fan was Mister Negative to the point of saying there wasn't a single redeeming quality about any player on the team, they'll never be any good, and they're better off being sold and moved out of town...ok, that's needless hyperbole that gets old.

But griping about a bad 5 years, where the GM made a bunch of moves you didn't like, things turned out poorly, and the guy is still in town, making moves you might not like? C'mon now.

There’s being negative and overly eager to always instill it upon everyone else just because you’re so fixated about it. That’s the problem with some of the negativity here. I got ‘warning’ points for trying to post against it by calling out someone else about in the ‘bold predictions’ thread. It was supposed to be fun to see what lavish numbers or ideas is fans put out, but of course some had to turn in to such a downer by trying to prove how it’s impossible. To the point of insulting intelligence and positivity.

Why is the negativity always seemingly ignored here? It’s been running rampant for such a long time here and it’s actually become exhausting. I enjoy posting with so many people here, and I’m normally respectful to most people here, but sometimes it actually grains against my nerves to the point that it becomes toxic.

To some of the people here saying how Nyquist had his worst season - numbers do NOT always indicate facts. It’s a mere illusion. Was he a perimeter player? Yeah, but it’s not like he didn’t put effort night in and night out. Again, if his tenure here was on a better team, his numbers would be better, and people would be open to resigning him. But because the team’s success has influenced his play - all of sudden he’s worthless. He can still be useful if we cannot get value out of by a decent trade.

It’s baffling so many are still unhappy despite the positive outlook we have now. It’s the most starry light we’ve had since roughly 2012. Maybe a bit earlier.

Anyways, just wish we can stop with the rambunctious bashing and actually have reasonable criticism without the overly exuded negative perspectives. But I somehow doubt that.

 

[kliq]

Your incredulity - while touching - is misplaced. I said on this board as soon as the Nashville series was over that it was clear to me that our run was pretty much over and it would be more productive to focus on acquiring the next generation of players who would once again allow us to reasonably expect to go on a deep playoff run. So no, I didn't take great pride in making the playoffs with the obvious outcome being cannon fodder in 5 or 6 games max. I didn't cheer for making the playoffs - one year my suggestion for a playoff avatar was "Curb Your Enthusiasm". That very well may have been the year Nyquist saved our playoff bacon.

Cheering for a team can be complicated, particularly when you could see the eventual end result of the current sad state of the franchise while lots of people were giving Kenny plaudits for taking a top 5 team and turning it into one of the five worst teams in the league.

I am clearly a fan: I watch/attend the games and post on a forum when said franchise is clearly one of the worst in the league. So if you are expecting me to turn in my fan card because I don't view the franchise through rose-tinted glasses my sincere advice would be for you to not hold your breath.

How can one have misplaced incredulity? Are you saying that his unwillingness to accept something should be directed elsewhere? Misplaced anger, sure. You are "upset" at someone you are not actually upset at. But misplaced incredulity is not a thing since there is no such thing as correctly placed incredulity.

Either way, in hindsight you are right. I won't argue that, we should have started to re-build after Lidstrom retired. With that said, it was never going to happen for multiple reasons. From the streak, to still having D & Z, near the end of their primes, the run we made in 2013, successfully re-building on the fly between 2002 and 2008, and finally Illitch's go for it mindset, anyone could see that the Wings were going to keep trying to compete until the streak ended, and as much as I hate to say it, Mr. I became 100% hands off. At the end of the day they are in re-build mode, and hopefully they can turn things around sooner then later.

 

[SCD]

Mr. I became 100% hands off.

I agree with a lot of what you posted, but I think Mr I and the family had significant input on the direction of the team, and still do. After winning four cups, I think surpassing Boston in the playoff streak length became the ultimate goal. It would cement they had truly built a dynasty from a team that had been a disaster for years. The future was mortgaged for a couple more years.

Things really started to unravel when the NHL changed the cap recapture rules in this contract. Then Franzen's injury, and the Wiess debacle.

Maybe someday when Holland is retired he will sit down and write about his career in Detroit and explain why. And for many of you, that won't be soon enough.

 

[jkutswings]

It’s baffling so many are still unhappy despite the positive outlook we have now. It’s the most starry light we’ve had since roughly 2012. Maybe a bit earlier.

Anyways, just wish we can stop with the rambunctious bashing and actually have reasonable criticism without the overly exuded negative perspectives. But I somehow doubt that.

I like Zadina as a player. I'm encouraged by the growth of Rasmussen, Hronek, and Cholowski. I think McIssac could be a steady 3/4. I think Berggren should be a fun 2nd liner one day. And I like where Larkin and Mantha are headed.

But I still honestly believe that the current front office and coaching staff are the wrong people for the job of rebuilding this team, and I don't think all the right pieces can fall into place until they're gone.

So while there are definitely elements to like, how COULD I view this team without any negativity whatsoever, when I still think the wrong guys are pulling the strings?

But to circle back, deal Nyquist for sure. I don't see him having a great year after losing Z, but get what your can for him. If he is willing to return on a 1-2 year deal for under $5.5M AAV, I could see the logic of them being able to deal him again, but that shouldn't be the type of contract he's after, and I definitely don't want him back on a 5-6 year deal.

 

[KJoe88]

I like Zadina as a player. I'm encouraged by the growth of Rasmussen, Hronek, and Cholowski. I think McIssac could be a steady 3/4. I think Berggren should be a fun 2nd liner one day. And I like where Larkin and Mantha are headed.

But I still honestly believe that the current front office and coaching staff are the wrong people for the job of rebuilding this team, and I don't think all the right pieces can fall into place until they're gone.

So while there are definitely elements to like, how COULD I view this team without any negativity whatsoever, when I still think the wrong guys are pulling the strings?

But to circle back, deal Nyquist for sure. I don't see him having a great year after losing Z, but get what your can for him. If he is willing to return on a 1-2 year deal for under $5.5M AAV, I could see the logic of them being able to deal him again, but that shouldn't be the type of contract he's after, and I definitely don't want him back on a 5-6 year deal.

Awesome.

I agree that Gus could be good thing to be traded, but if I was a GM (thankfully I’m not - because I would be awful at it) I wouldn’t just blindly trade him either for just peanuts. Because I have a feeling Kenny isn’t going acquire the assets some are hoping for. Example- Tats.

But even a decent package, then of course.

That said, I firmly believe the team can be competent in two years and competing for the playoffs depending on who we draft after this season and if/when Hronek/Cholo become top two/four guys. I guess my point again is, I genuinely feel like Nyquist would be an excellent borderline second line/third line winger by then. He was drafted by the team and has shown good leadership skills. Sometimes we needn’t look for veteran depth to surround our young guys when we already have a decent one.

Am I biased because I like him as a player? Yes. But I felt like it was a big issue having BOTH Gus and Tats on the team - having one of them isn’t really a big deal. Especially with some contracts being exited soon.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Where do you see Nyquist fitting in if the guys that you're excited about develop the way you're expecting? Certainly not in the top 6.

What if we trade AA, Berggren/Veleno take ~3 years to become ready, Svechnikov busts and we don't draft someone like Jack Hughes?
There's more of a stockpile coming up on defense than there is up front. I think there could be a room for Nyquist. Maybe not as a lock for a top 6 role, but in the middle 6. Term and cap hit would be key.

Ok but I actually watched him and thought he had his best season in quite some time

Agree, thought it was a very good year from him. Sadly the type of player he is will never look great statistically in a bad situation.

 

[Winger98]

That said, I firmly believe the team can be competent in two years and competing for the playoffs depending on who we draft after this season and if/when Hronek/Cholo become top two/four guys. I guess my point again is, I genuinely feel like Nyquist would be an excellent borderline second line/third line winger by then. He was drafted by the team and has shown good leadership skills. Sometimes we needn’t look for veteran depth to surround our young guys when we already have a decent one.

Like Vanek?

If this team is going to be on a serious upswing in the next couple of years, it's going to be all of the kids stepping up. If we're still looking for a good vet middle6 winger, it's cheaper and easier to cull the lesser lights on free agency and signing guys like Vanek for a year or two - a deal that I just can't imagine Nyquist entertaining.

 

[jkutswings]

There's more of a stockpile coming up on defense than there is up front.

Huh? Maybe for Grand Rapids, but not for Detroit.

 

[Heaton]

What if we trade AA, Berggren/Veleno take ~3 years to become ready, Svechnikov busts and we don't draft someone like Jack Hughes?
There's more of a stockpile coming up on defense than there is up front. I think there could be a room for Nyquist. Maybe not as a lock for a top 6 role, but in the middle 6. Term and cap hit would be key.

What term are you comfortable with? Abdelkader just got locked up for 7 years at 4m+, don't you think Nyquist would want the exact same deal but more $$?

I'd be shocked if Nyquist isn't looking at that contract and demanding 7 years 35m and Holland would probably consider it.

 

[kliq]

What term are you comfortable with? Abdelkader just got locked up for 7 years at 4m+, don't you think Nyquist would want the exact same deal but more $$?

I'd be shocked if Nyquist isn't looking at that contract and demanding 7 years 35m and Holland would probably consider it.

You very well may be right, and if that's the case you move on. This isn't an RFA, with a UFA you make your offer, and if they take it, they take it, if they don't, they don't. Who knows what the market for him will be this year, but I have a feeling nobody is offering Nyquist 7 years at 5mil/year unless in 2018/19 he goes back to his 2014 self.

 

[Heaton]

You very well may be right, and if that's the case you move on. This isn't an RFA, with a UFA you make your offer, and if they take it, they take it, if they don't, they don't. Who knows what the market for him will be this year, but I have a feeling nobody is offering Nyquist 7 years at 5mil/year unless in 2018/19 he goes back to his 2014 self.

Do you think anyone on the open market was going to offer Abdelkader a 7 year deal?

 

[kliq]

Do you think anyone on the open market was going to offer Abdelkader a 7 year deal?

No, and Abby was a bad deal. There is no disputing that.

I'm talking about Nyquist, and given where this team is now, I don't think he would get the same deal if he tried to use it as a comparable. If he does, well then he can sign elsewhere, but if nobody else gives him that either, he will likely be back to the negotiating table.

 

[Heaton]

No, and Abby was a bad deal. There is no disputing that.

I'm talking about Nyquist, and given where this team is now, I don't think he would get the same deal if he tried to use it as a comparable. If he does, well then he can sign elsewhere, but if nobody else gives him that either, he will likely be back to the negotiating table.

If Nyquist doesn't push for that deal him and his agent are pretty dumb. Nyquist has always been a better player than Abdelkader and taking a lesser deal when Abdelkader set the bar for that type of thing would be silly.

I certainly don't want Nyquist back in any capacity, but he's a homegrown player and I think Holland will look to lifetime deal him.

 

[kliq]

If Nyquist doesn't push for that deal him and his agent are pretty dumb. Nyquist has always been a better player than Abdelkader and taking a lesser deal when Abdelkader set the bar for that type of thing would be silly.

I certainly don't want Nyquist back in any capacity, but he's a homegrown player and I think Holland will look to lifetime deal him.

Like I said, Nyquist and his agent can ask for that deal all they want, and if they do we say no.