Would you do Staal & Hanifin + for ROR & RNH?

[LakeLivin]

A couple counter proposals from some other teams fans on the general trade board got me thinking. IF (yeah, that's a very big "if") it were possible to engineer a couple trades that came down to Jordan and Hanifin as the base for ROR and RNH coming back, would you do it? I'm thinking Canes would have to add more. And I recognize that it would be tough for many to trade Jordan given what he's been through and how much we seemed to miss him when he was out this season. But if you're cold and calculating about making the team better, would you pursue such a move?

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[RibFrabcus]

Taking into consideration contracts, age, potential, pedigree, and the players themselves, this seems pretty close in value. Not sure any adds are necesary. I think tentatively I might do this.

 

[MinJaBen]

I’d do it to avoid Staals decline and to prepare for the next expansion draft.

 

[SlavinAway]

The only way I would be comfortable losing Staal would be adding ROR.

I think Hanifin will be a great player eventually but I probably do this deal.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Staal for ROR, yes.

Hanifin for RNH. I have a feeling we sorely regret that one in a few years.

 

[MinJaBen]

Staal for ROR, yes.

Hanifin for RNH. I have a feeling we sorely regret that one in a few years.

I can't imagine it worked that way. Probably Staal for RNH and Hanifin for ROR. We need to sign JVR so we can aquire all the three letter acronym players.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I can't imagine it worked that way. Probably Staal for RNH and Hanifin for ROR. We need to sign JVR so we can aquire all the three letter acronym players.

We already have TVR. Maybe we can get JGP and ice a whole dang line of lettermen.

 

[LakeLivin]

We already have TVR. Maybe we can get JGP and ice a whole dang line of lettermen.

Let's add OEL and and MAF we can ice a whole team!

 

[tarheelhockey]

Let's add OEL and and MAF we can ice a whole team!

We'll have more lettermen than a varsity squad! The national championship will be ours!

 

[DaveG]

ROR > Staal > Hanifin (long term) >> RNH

no thanks

 

[LakeLivin]

Staal for ROR, yes.

Hanifin for RNH. I have a feeling we sorely regret that one in a few years.

Don't see why Slugs would even consider a Staal for ROR deal. The two fill similar roles, and Staal would definitely have to be considered a downgrade. Plus, ROR is a couple years younger, and the Slugs optimal window is a bit down the road just like ours is.

Remember, we can only protect 3 D-men at the next expansion draft. If Hanifin had progressed anywhere near as quickly as doppelganger Werenski (it was almost freakish how similar their resumes were at draft time) or Provorov, I'd be much more hesitant. Not to say he won't, but he's still more potential than proven. He could hit his ceiling, but if not, his value could diminish from this point on. Kind of a judgement call with a lot of moving parts beyond just the risk/ reward issue (contract negotiations, expansion draft, etc.)

I'd do it, but if there were any possibility of it actually happening I think the Canes would have to add a couple pieces. If one of them was Rask, freeing use from his contract and opening up another center spot, I wouldn't mind.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Don't see why Slugs would even consider a Staal for ROR deal. The two fill similar roles, and Staal would definitely have to be considered a downgrade. Plus, ROR is a couple years younger, and the Slugs optimal window is a bit down the road just like ours is.

Remember, we can only protect 3 D-men at the next expansion draft. If Hanifin had progressed anywhere near as quickly as doppelganger Werenski (it was almost freakish how similar their resumes were at draft time) or Provorov, I'd be much more hesitant. Not to say he won't, but he's still more potential than proven. He could hit his ceiling, but if not, his value could diminish from this point on. Kind of a judgement call with a lot of moving parts beyond just the risk/ reward issue (contract negotiations, expansion draft, etc.)

I'd do it, but if there were any possibility of it actually happening I think the Canes would have to add a couple pieces. If one of them was Rask, freeing use from his contract and opening up another center spot, I wouldn't mind.

That’s how it shakes out for the Canes. The deals would be Staal for RNH, and Hanifin for ROR though.

 

[LakeLivin]

ROR > Staal > Hanifin (long term) >> RNH

no thanks

I guess I place much more value on RNH than you do, maybe in part due to feedback from Oil fans about how much his 2-way game has progressed over the past 2 seasons.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Don't see why Slugs would even consider a Staal for ROR deal.

I'm just going on what you presented in the OP. You didn't say who trades who for what, you just asked about the bottom line.

Staal -> O'Reilly is an upgrade at the center position. It's not a HUGE upgrade, but it's an upgrade.

Hanifin -> RNH is losing the only defenseman in our system who has "true #1" potential (Slavin isn't that, exactly) in order to pick up another top-6 center.

RNH is now 25 years old and has fairly well established himself as a 40-60 point guy. He hasn't actually hit 60, mind you, so that's giving him some benefit of the doubt. We'd be taking that guy, knowing we already have O'Reilly munching top-6 minutes and knowing we already have Aho who just scored 65 and looks ready to convert to center. Somebody's going to get their career stalled in this dynamic. I'm guessing it won't be one of the guys we just traded good assets to acquire.

Five years down the road, we are at the end of whatever we're going to accomplish with this group. O'Reilly is done with his contract and well into a decline, RNH is 30 years old and probably still a 60 point guy in a good year. Meanwhile Noah Hanifin is 26 years old, and almost certainly a top-pairing guy if not an outright #1D. From that point forward, we get to watch Hanifin anchor another team while we reminisce about RNH's mediocre center play and those years of still not having a #1C.

It's a recipe for "LOL Rutherford" type threads in 2025.

 

[Unsustainable]

Hanifin for ROR is alright.

I’d like to get Hjalmarson if we do trade off Faulk or Hanifin

 

[LakeLivin]

I'm just going on what you presented in the OP. You didn't say who trades who for what, you just asked about the bottom line.

Staal -> O'Reilly is an upgrade at the center position. It's not a HUGE upgrade, but it's an upgrade.

Hanifin -> RNH is losing the only defenseman in our system who has "true #1" potential (Slavin isn't that, exactly) in order to pick up another top-6 center.

RNH is now 25 years old and has fairly well established himself as a 40-60 point guy. He hasn't actually hit 60, mind you, so that's giving him some benefit of the doubt. We'd be taking that guy, knowing we already have O'Reilly munching top-6 minutes and knowing we already have Aho who just scored 65 and looks ready to convert to center. Somebody's going to get their career stalled in this dynamic. I'm guessing it won't be one of the guys we just traded good assets to acquire.

Five years down the road, we are at the end of whatever we're going to accomplish with this group. O'Reilly is done with his contract and well into a decline, RNH is 30 years old and probably still a 60 point guy in a good year. Meanwhile Noah Hanifin is 26 years old, and almost certainly a top-pairing guy if not an outright #1D. From that point forward, we get to watch Hanifin anchor another team while we reminisce about RNH's mediocre center play and those years of still not having a #1C.

It's a recipe for "LOL Rutherford" type threads in 2025.

"It's a recipe for "LOL Rutherford" type threads in 2025." That's certainly possible. On the other hand, look at what Faulk could have returned 2 years ago vs. what he would return today. I'm nowhere near as optimistic that Hanifin will reach the ceiling that was projected for him at draft time as I was back then. Not that I don't think he can still be very good, just that I don't see his ascension to a #1 as a sure thing based on what I've seen so far. [As an aside, based on the eye test, I see Slavin as likely adding a lot more offense if we tighten up the rest of our D so that the coaches can turn him loose more. I really liked how he was looking towards the end of last season.]

The other thing I'm factoring in is the next expansion draft. If it happened today, I'd protect Pesce and Slavin ahead of Hanifin. [Not worried about Faulk but that's another thread, lol] So I'm projecting only being able to keep one of Hanifin or Bean. I'd rather have Hanifin (hard to value Bean given that he's only potential at this point), but if I'm dealing 1 to protect assets, Hanifin brings back way more than Bean.

I guess it all comes down to how we each construct our risk/ benefit models, but I'd be thrilled to have 5 years of ROR, Necas, and Aho down the middle (RNH can easily switch to wing when Necas is ready to take a top 9 C spot, I believe he was quite effective on wing a fair amount last season).

 

[tarheelhockey]

"It's a recipe for "LOL Rutherford" type threads in 2025." That's certainly possible. On the other hand, look at what Faulk could have returned 2 years ago vs. what he would return today. I'm nowhere near as optimistic that Hanifin will reach the ceiling that was projected for him at draft time as I was back then. Not that I don't think he can still be very good, just that I don't see his ascension to a #1 as a sure thing based on what I've seen so far. [As an aside, based on the eye test, I see Slavin as likely adding a lot more offense if we tighten up the rest of our D so that the coaches can turn him loose more. I really liked how he was looking towards the end of last season.]

The other thing I'm factoring in is the next expansion draft. If it happened today, I'd protect Pesce and Slavin ahead of Hanifin. [Not worried about Faulk but that's another thread, lol] So I'm projecting only being able to keep one of Hanifin or Bean. I'd rather have Hanifin (hard to value Bean given that he's only potential at this point), but if I'm dealing 1 to protect assets, Hanifin brings back way more than Bean.

I guess it all comes down to how we each construct our risk/ benefit models, but I'd be thrilled to have 5 years of ROR, Necas, and Aho down the middle (RNH can easily switch to wing when Necas is ready to take a top 9 C spot, I believe he was quite effective on wing a fair amount last season).

RNH being effective on the wing would make a big difference, I wasn’t aware he was doing that now.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Should be made clear. RNH is being effective on McDavid's wing.

 

[LakeLivin]

RNH being effective on the wing would make a big difference, I wasn’t aware he was doing that now.

Moving Nugent-Hopkins to McDavid's wing has been a huge success - Sportsnet.ca

Yeah, he's been playing LW on McDavid's line. Which, the more I think about it, probably significantly reduces any chance that the Oil would trade him. If McDavid likes him there he's not going anywhere, lol. An Oil fan or two mentioned the possibility of an RNH trade, but I get the feeling they're more casual fans who are lagging behind a bit. Seems like RNH could have been pretty easily "got" last season, now probably not so much.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I wouldn't be making any moves with the next expansion draft in mind. It's a couple of offseasons away and if we're where we sure as hell better be by then, we're going to either lose a good player or have to pay the team not to take one of our guys. I know that wasn't your entire reasoning, but it shouldn't be much of a factor at all in my mind.

Overall, I really like the way Tarheel broke the actual values and timelines of the trades above as well.

 

[LakeLivin]

Seems like part of it comes down to how much we want to invest in the team "near term" vs. "down the road". My take is that beyond the goalie debacle (not all RFs fault, except maybe the 4 year term; Mongo seemed a good bet at the time) a big part of RFs downfall was that he wasn't willing to invest enough in the present, which bit him in the ass given our long playoff drought. Don't get me wrong, I think his philosophy was generally sound, and you shouldn't sacrifice the future for short term gains (unless maybe you're a true Cup threat). But I also don't think you can treat that as an absolute and cling to prospects and picks as if they'll all hit their ceiling.

I don't think Hanifin ever becomes our #1. In spite of Hanifin's rep as an offensive d-man, I think Slavin is currently better offensively. They had very similar production this year in spite of markedly more offensive zone starts and PP time for Hanifin (no need to expound on defense). Of course, Hanifin is a couple of years younger, so he could catch and pass Slavin, but based on his progression so far I don't bet on it.

Bottom line for me is that I'd take the risk of giving up what Hanifin might become down the road in exchange for upgrading Staal with a better (and 2 year younger) ROR and a still relatively young RNH for the next 5 years or so. But I understand that many will weight things differently and wouldn't want to make that move.

 

[Chan790]

No.

Mostly because I don't buy the argument that ROR is vastly better than Staal at either end of the ice. I think the differences are situational and coaching. Here, I expect ROR to "regress" to Staal.

 

[geehaad]

Totally disagree with the opinion that Slavin is better offensively.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Totally disagree with the opinion that Slavin is better offensively.

Yeah, I think Hanifin has more offensive talents, and I expect him to continue developing those both physically and mentally. He also just needs to work on his consistency.

Much like the rest of his game, I think Slavin's offensive game is mostly built on smarts and making the right plays. That's not a bad thing, but I think it's limited in upside. Sure, he gets more opportunities, but Hanifin has some numbers that are similar to or better than Slavin does at a time Slavin wasn't even in the league.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Slavin produces as much offensively now as he will for the rest of his career. He will always be capable of a sweet goal scored because of a heady play, but won’t ever be the consistent offensive threat that Hanifin may be.

In fact I think that goes for Slavin’s whole game; I think Slavin is pretty much the player he will be for the next ten years.