Proposal: Would you consider Mantha for Parayko?

kliq

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Dec 17, 2017
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I wouldn't. I can't say I have watched Parayko play too much but from what I have seen/read he's a decent top 4 guy, not the #1/#2 guy that we need.

I think people are so desperate for that guy at this point, that are willing to try anything.
 

HisNoodliness

The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Jun 29, 2014
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Disclaimer: I'm a huge Mantha fan. I think he's our highest upside player besides Zadina.

Straight up one-for-one? Of course I do the trade. Parayko'd be our best defenseman immediately and is a more valuable piece than Mantha. St. Louis won't accept it though. They'd want Larkin which is a no-go. If we could center the deal around Mantha, it would have to be Mantha++.

Assuming Mantha++ for Parayko is fair, I wouldn't want to do a fair value trade for Parayko. I don't think Parayko's the true #1 we need on the back end and we can get better value trading guys like AA and Nyquist for young, high potential D and hoping they turn into Parayko. Plus I think Mantha has more to show us and his value will increase over the next couple of years. If we were to trade Mantha for a D I'd prefer to do it for a prospect that I think has higher upside than Parayko like the Drouin for Sergachev trade last year.

Commit to the rebuild. Draft, and trade for high potential D and then develop our #1. No need to take shortcuts and move Mantha, one of our big core pieces, for one at this time unless we're getting better value in a one-on-one situation.
 

TheMule93

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May 26, 2015
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if we're going to trade mantha for a dman, do it in a few years when he likely has bigger seasons and higher value.
 

Spirit of 67

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Nov 25, 2016
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Would make a lot of HF posters eyes bleed. They want suspensions for stuff that refs didn't even consider calling.

Feels like it would be like this:
acw%2Beyeballs.gif
 

Syckle78

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Nov 5, 2011
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No. If they want to move Parayko they can choose from AA/nyq/svech not the guy who is already our leading scorer and more than likely will be a perennial contender for 30 plus goals a season.
Those guys don't sniff parayko and frankly mantha doesn't either.
 

JoesuffP

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Feb 3, 2016
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If/when Zadina and Rasmussen are putting up 20+ goals then the Wings can afford to trade a winger but right now would be stupid. Mantha’s value is only going to keep going up. Unless a GM really loves Mantha and wants to pay for his potential than maybe
 

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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Blues fan here. GM and Fans wouldnt part with him unless we got a young 1c potential center. Miss you guys being rivals.
Fair enough...I certainly can't blame you for that. Just trying to think outside the box, since the Wings have forwards coming out of their ears, but have a defense that often gets mistaken for a subway turnstile.
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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Disclaimer: I'm a huge Mantha fan. I think he's our highest upside player besides Zadina.

Straight up one-for-one? Of course I do the trade. Parayko'd be our best defenseman immediately and is a more valuable piece than Mantha. St. Louis won't accept it though. They'd want Larkin which is a no-go. If we could center the deal around Mantha, it would have to be Mantha++.

Assuming Mantha++ for Parayko is fair, I wouldn't want to do a fair value trade for Parayko. I don't think Parayko's the true #1 we need on the back end and we can get better value trading guys like AA and Nyquist for young, high potential D and hoping they turn into Parayko. Plus I think Mantha has more to show us and his value will increase over the next couple of years. If we were to trade Mantha for a D I'd prefer to do it for a prospect that I think has higher upside than Parayko like the Drouin for Sergachev trade last year.

Commit to the rebuild. Draft, and trade for high potential D and then develop our #1. No need to take shortcuts and move Mantha, one of our big core pieces, for one at this time unless we're getting better value in a one-on-one situation.
Agree with every word.
 
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Syckle78

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Nov 5, 2011
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Parayko is too soft for a big man in my book. His PIM totals reflect a Lady Byng candidate more than a 6'6 guy. I'm not saying he has to be Marty McSorley tough, but he had 13 PIM in 82 games last year. Also, his offensive numbers aren't that impressive for guy who has a rocket from the point. 10 total goals in the last two seasons, despite playing 82 games last year and 81 games the year before. This guy couldn't hit water from a boat from the point. He just shoots hard. Not accurate.

I don't want the Wings making that trade.
That's one way of looking at his PIM. You could also look at it as he's not getting out of position or beat on angles and having to resort to hooking and holding.
 

RedWingsfan55

Registered User
Jan 5, 2015
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Have fun getting a mediocre defenseman, then. You have to give up something you don't want to if you want to get a good player back.


I understand that. I also understand svech or nyquist or aa wont get the job done.


But mantha will be our next 30 goal scorer since what franzen's doing it once like 19 years ago?

I'm extremely hesitant to move our only potential 30 goal scorer(well zadina might be the other now of course).

No one is untouchable in my opinion but certain players will require the highest price(larkin, mantha, zadina, and cholowski or however its spelled).
 

GMR

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Jul 27, 2013
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That's one way of looking at his PIM. You could also look at it as he's not getting out of position or beat on angles and having to resort to hooking and holding.
Then he's essentially a waste of size. Like I said, I don't expect a McSorley type. Nor does he have to be a Pronger type when it comes to the frequent stupid penalties the latter often took. However, 13 PIMs in an 82 game schedule from a 6'6 defenseman makes me think this guy is softer than butter.

He's a big guy with a hard shot. However, he doesn't score goals and he doesn't use his big body for much of anything useful. He's still young and may get better, but I take Mantha over him any day.
 

HisNoodliness

The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Jun 29, 2014
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But why? What does Parayko do that's so special? Is it based strictly on upside?

He's a first line defenseman today. There's no projecting upside necessary. Defensively responsible, keeps the puck out of his net/zone. Clears the front of the net. You used his PIM to say he's not physical, but that's not really the case. He's not a bruiser lining people up, fighting, making dirty plays etc. He simply doesn't put himself in situations that require taking a penalty. Instead he positions himself well and uses his strength to separate guys from the puck.

He'd be by far the best defenseman on the Wings. That's why you do it if it's one for one. Parayko would help the wings more than Mantha today, tomorrow and five years from now. But for all of the reasons above, St. Louis won't do it one for one and most of us aren't willing to add what it would take to make it happen.
 

GMR

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He's a first line defenseman today. There's no projecting upside necessary. Defensively responsible, keeps the puck out of his net/zone. Clears the front of the net. You used his PIM to say he's not physical, but that's not really the case. He's not a bruiser lining people up, fighting, making dirty plays etc. He simply doesn't put himself in situations that require taking a penalty. Instead he positions himself well and uses his strength to separate guys from the puck.

He'd be by far the best defenseman on the Wings. That's why you do it if it's one for one. Parayko would help the wings more than Mantha today, tomorrow and five years from now. But for all of the reasons above, St. Louis won't do it one for one and most of us aren't willing to add what it would take to make it happen.
That's a dangerous area the Wings have to avoid. Any half-assed second pairing defenseman in the NHL would be the best defenseman for the Wings. The bar is very low to be the best defenseman on this team Kenny Holland has assembled. We shouldn't give up our only big forward with skill just to overcompensate for this team's obvious weaknesses.

I have to disagree that he'd help the Wings more today. The stats don't show that. Parayko hasn't put up impressive numbers. As far as the future, that remains to be seen. I just think Mantha has better upside.
 

HisNoodliness

The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Jun 29, 2014
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That's a dangerous area the Wings have to avoid. Any half-assed second pairing defenseman in the NHL would be the best defenseman for the Wings. The bar is very low to be the best defenseman on this team Kenny Holland has assembled. We shouldn't give up our only big forward with skill just to overcompensate for this team's obvious weaknesses.

I have to disagree that he'd help the Wings more today. The stats don't show that. Parayko hasn't put up impressive numbers. As far as the future, that remains to be seen. I just think Mantha has better upside.

It's not just that Parayko would be our best D man that makes him a first pairing D. That's what he genuinely is. However, I don't think I'm going to be able to convince you of that so we're just going to have to agree to disagree on Parayko. It's a moot point because we're not going to be able to trade Mantha for Parayko. If we get obscenely lucky and it happens... I hope you'll give him a chance.
 

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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That's a dangerous area the Wings have to avoid. Any half-assed second pairing defenseman in the NHL would be the best defenseman for the Wings. The bar is very low to be the best defenseman on this team Kenny Holland has assembled. We shouldn't give up our only big forward with skill just to overcompensate for this team's obvious weaknesses.

I have to disagree that he'd help the Wings more today. The stats don't show that. Parayko hasn't put up impressive numbers. As far as the future, that remains to be seen. I just think Mantha has better upside.
There's two different topics here.

On the one hand, I can see the thinking that Mantha tops out as a top 20-30 forward in the NHL, while Parayko tops out as a top 40-50 defenseman, so you don't want to ditch the guy with "the higher ceiling" (at least not yet).

But the other aspect is that a top 40-50 defenseman is as valuable as a top 20-30 forward, if not moreso. It's why I'm not a huge fan of collecting so many forwards. Even if they turn into an embarrassment of riches, it'll feel like an overpayment to trade one for a decent defenseman, because supply and demand is in favor of the blue liner. (And it's even bleaker if you think Detroit may need to trade for multiple decent defensemen.)

Tough call, but I'm glad I posted this, because it's already led to good suggestions by other posters.
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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That's a dangerous area the Wings have to avoid. Any half-assed second pairing defenseman in the NHL would be the best defenseman for the Wings. The bar is very low to be the best defenseman on this team Kenny Holland has assembled. We shouldn't give up our only big forward with skill just to overcompensate for this team's obvious weaknesses.

I have to disagree that he'd help the Wings more today. The stats don't show that. Parayko hasn't put up impressive numbers. As far as the future, that remains to be seen. I just think Mantha has better upside.

Parayko would have been the Wings' leading man in total ice time, in offensive production, with the best 5v5 Corsi% and significantly more difficult deployment than Green or Kronwall...all while playing second fiddle to a former/current Norris contending defenseman who happens to be the Blues' captain. He's 100% a budding top pair defender on any team that isn't extremely deep at RHD. Coincidentally, the Blues have Pietrangelo, which would be one of the few teams that fall under the category of being deep at RHD.

Mantha's ceiling is a first line, goal scoring power forward. Parayko's ceiling is a massive first pairing, all situations RHD. The defenseman always beats the winger in that situation.
 

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