Would you consider Forsberg a power forward centre?

[Infinite Vision*]

There are piles of quotes like that about every great hockey player who retires.

I'm sure everyone agrees he was a great hockey player, but I get a little tired of hearing how he would outscore Lemieux and Gretzky in the 80s, and seeing that same highlight video repeated again and again and again on here as evidence.



That would depend on where you rank him among the best ever.

When you consider that Trottier (the better Forsberg imo) was 26th on the last HOH list..

Fine. Ignore the quotes and ignore the highlight reels, read the rest of it, and watch some games of him if you haven't. I've been watching hockey extensively since the early eighties and Trottier and Forsberg are two of the most underrated players ever, but Forsberg even more so due to his shortened career. I personally don't know who I think is better...they are both so similar I will say that.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'm sure that someone as old as BC has seen some Forsberg games in his time.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

I don't know how old he is, it just sounds to me like his opinion of him is a misguided one.

 

[tombombadil]

I was just looking at the adjusted points for Trottier and Forsberg on hockeyreference. So similar.

If the one guy up there is right, and people say that Petey would have outscored Lemieux and Gretz, well, I can see calling him over rated. I have personally never heard anyone say that. He probably would have been a lot like Trottier or Peter Stastny for numbers.

When you throw in the backchecking, forechecking, and physical edge, then I think you have an under rated player, in both cases.

 

[Rhiessan71]

I don't know how old he is, it just sounds to me like his opinion of him is a misguided one.

He's far from the only one with such a "misguided" opinion on the man.

No one is saying that Forsberg was crap, he was one of the top 5 players of the late 90's/early 2000's IMO.
Was he honestly top 15 of all-time...not a chance. Could he have been, barring injuries...maybe but the reality is that Lindros, barring injuries, would of still ended up higher than him.

As BC stated earlier, the reason Forsberg gets a hard time on this board is from various statements over the years to the effect of Forsberg out scoring Gretzky and Lemieux if he played in the 80's.
Silly crap like that tends to generate a level of reserved pre-emptivness, if you will.
Or, when someone tries to say someone who is strong on the puck and a good mucker is all of a sudden a power forward.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

He's far from the only one with such a "misguided" opinion on the man.

No one is saying that Forsberg was crap, he was one of the top 5 players of the late 90's/early 2000's IMO.
Was he honestly top 15 of all-time...not a chance. Could he have been, barring injuries...maybe but the reality is that Lindros, barring injuries, would of still ended up higher than him.

As BC stated earlier, the reason Forsberg gets a hard time on this board is from various statements over the years to the effect of Forsberg out scoring Gretzky and Lemieux if he played in the 80's.
Silly crap like that tends to generate a level of reserved pre-emptivness, if you will.
Or, when someone tries to say someone who is strong on the puck and a good mucker is all of a sudden a power forward.

I've been reading these boards for a while before I finally decided to create an account, have read a few other forums as well, and I've never seen anyone claim Forsberg would outscore Gretzky or Lemieux. If you could show me some quotes, then that would be interesting.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Fine. Ignore the quotes and ignore the highlight reels, read the rest of it, and watch some games of him if you haven't. I've been watching hockey extensively since the early eighties and Trottier and Forsberg are two of the most underrated players ever, but Forsberg even more so due to his shortened career. I personally don't know who I think is better...they are both so similar I will say that.

You're on the history board now.

Most everyone here has been watching hockey extensively.

 

[Rhiessan71]

I've been reading these boards for a while before I finally decided to create an account, have read a few other forums as well, and I've never seen anyone claim Forsberg would outscore Gretzky or Lemieux. If you could show me some quotes, then that would be interesting.

Well, first off, welcome.

The claims that BC and I are referring to are around somewhere, just going to have to trust us on that one

However, if you want a good thread to read, find the "All encompassing players of today vs players of the past" thread.
Some real...interesting statements in that one.


Went and found it for ya... http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=849771
Have fun.



EDIT: NVM, it was you, Infinite Vision, that made most of those statements about Forsberg outscoring 99 and 66.
Kinda lame to be asking for quotes that you, yourself made isn't it?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I was just looking at the adjusted points for Trottier and Forsberg on hockeyreference. So similar.

If the one guy up there is right, and people say that Petey would have outscored Lemieux and Gretz, well, I can see calling him over rated. I have personally never heard anyone say that. He probably would have been a lot like Trottier or Peter Stastny for numbers.

When you throw in the backchecking, forechecking, and physical edge, then I think you have an under rated player, in both cases.

On the last HOH Top 100 list, Peter Forsberg was ranked the 65th best hockey player of all time. If he's underrated around here, it isn't by much.

 

[HF007]

I think people look too much into his stats (which is surprising considering all the toews hard ons on HF) He had the intangibles of Jonathan Toews with the Skills of Joe Thornton but tougher. Like the playmaker version of Mark Messier when he wasn't injured.

 

[redbull]

I think people look too much into his stats (which is surprising considering all the toews hard ons on HF) He had the intangibles of Jonathan Toews with the Skills of Joe Thornton but tougher. Like the playmaker version of Mark Messier when he wasn't injured.

bang. on.

I've been reading these boards for a while before I finally decided to create an account, have read a few other forums as well, and I've never seen anyone claim Forsberg would outscore Gretzky or Lemieux. If you could show me some quotes, then that would be interesting.

You can adjust numbers and eras any way you want, there isn't even an Enron accountant that can show anything that would convince me that Forsberg is remotely close to Mario or Wayne. 99 and 66 are closer to TWICE as good as Forsberg than on par with. Different stratosphere when it comes to pure talent and output. I doubt there's anyone who saw Gretzky in the 80s or Mario in the 90s would EVER suggest there's been anyone close to that since then.

Forsberg, in the mold of Messier and Trottier and Clarke (though not as good as any of them) is certainly one of the top players in the next tier of players, he's in the conversation despite his uninspiring numbers and injury history/shortened career, etc.

This isn't baseball...the numbers in hockey can be a huge lie.

 

[Pear Juice]

Was he honestly top 15 of all-time...not a chance. Could he have been, barring injuries...maybe but the reality is that Lindros, barring injuries, would of still ended up higher than him.

I usually enjoy reading your posts Rhiessan71, but this is just as much speculation as by any Forsberg enthusiast I've read in this thread so far. There is absolutely no way you can make such a claim, and this is what I've been trying to say for a while.

Either judge players by what they have done over their career. Or judge players by what they did when they were at the top of their game. You consider Lindros a better hockey player in his prime than Forsberg, that's fine. It's absolutely a defendable opinion. But by contributing to this whole 'barring injuries' scenario you fall into the same logic as those you accuse. What if Lindros was never brain injured? What if Forsberg was born in 1962? What if Forsberg had smaller ankles? What if Lindros played on the Florida Panthers?

Neither of these players had careers that lived up to what we expected. Both are underrated when it comes to ability, and overrated when it comes to career. But that any one of them would be close to top-5 all time in ability I find very hard to accept.

On the power forward issue; Forsberg was absolutely not a power forward in the traditional meaning of the term. Lindros was. I can't see how it makes a difference. If anything is overrated on these boards it's the term power forward. It's merely a style of play. Sure it's quite an unusual one, and Lindros was among the very best at executing it, but that doesn't mean jack when it comes to career or player value. What means anything is if you contribute to your team playing better, to your team winning. Forsberg was a physical, competitive, stickhandling playmaker. I'd say that is just as an unusual and sought after style, especially coming from a European.

 

[Rhiessan71]

I usually enjoy reading your posts Rhiessan71, but this is just as much speculation as by any Forsberg enthusiast I've read in this thread so far. There is absolutely no way you can make such a claim, and this is what I've been trying to say for a while.

Either judge players by what they have done over their career. Or judge players by what they did when they were at the top of their game. You consider Lindros a better hockey player in his prime than Forsberg, that's fine. It's absolutely a defendable opinion. But by contributing to this whole 'barring injuries' scenario you fall into the same logic as those you accuse. What if Lindros was never brain injured? What if Forsberg was born in 1962? What if Forsberg had smaller ankles? What if Lindros played on the Florida Panthers?

Neither of these players had careers that lived up to what we expected. Both are underrated when it comes to ability, and overrated when it comes to career. But that any one of them would be close to top-5 all time in ability I find very hard to accept.

On the power forward issue; Forsberg was absolutely not a power forward in the traditional meaning of the term. Lindros was. I can't see how it makes a difference. If anything is overrated on these boards it's the term power forward. It's merely a style of play. Sure it's quite an unusual one, and Lindros was among the very best at executing it, but that doesn't mean jack when it comes to career or player value. What means anything is if you contribute to your team playing better, to your team winning. Forsberg was a physical, competitive, stickhandling playmaker. I'd say that is just as an unusual and sought after style, especially coming from a European.

Fair enough and maybe I got carried away but I was just fighting fire with fire

You are absolutely right though, Forsberg was definitely a rare combo, that being a strong, physical playmaking center.
He didn't play the role of a power forward though IMO.

 

[Pear Juice]

Fair enough and maybe I got carried away but I was just fighting fire with fire

You are absolutely right though, Forsberg was definitely a rare combo, that being a strong, physical playmaking center.
He didn't play the role of a power forward though IMO.

We're in agreement. A powerful forward, but not a power forward

 

[BraveCanadian]

EDIT: NVM, it was you, Infinite Vision, that made most of those statements about Forsberg outscoring 99 and 66.
Kinda lame to be asking for quotes that you, yourself made isn't it?

hahaha busted

 

[The Kingslayer]

A power forward fights so no I wouldnt consider him a power forward. Iginla, Neely, Backes are examples of power forwards. Forsberg was a physical centreman who could change a game with a hit,pass,goal.

 

[BeauRoger]

Considering forsberg was one of the greatest playmakers of all time, id give him the title of playmaker before powerforward. Unless i can go for both, in which case he would be a playmaking powerfoward. Or wait, make that a playmaking powerforward 2-way dangler.

 

[Fredrik_71]

Considering forsberg was one of the greatest playmakers of all time, id give him the title of playmaker before powerforward. Unless i can go for both, in which case he would be a playmaking powerfoward. Or wait, make that a playmaking powerforward 2-way dangler.

This. One of the things that makes Forsberg great is that he cold do it all, except staying healthy

/Cheers