Would you consider Forsberg a power forward centre?

[begbeee]

To those who say Forsberg was not much of a hitter, or didn''t seek punishing hits, watch all those videos and if you're mind is changed, then I don't know what else to tell you.

Also look at the balance he displays when he hits people, he sends them flying and he himself doesn't even budge... it's actually amazing to watch.

Whole problem with Forsberg being overrated is youtube era. Everyone is nitpicking video for his favour, but one should watch all the games and follow NHL at that time to make an opinion from whole picture.
Even Craig Janney delivered bone crushing hit in Phoenix. Someone had to make a video, another one had to post it here and I assure you there would be many people saying how good bodychecker Janney was.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

Isn't changed*

 

[Infinite Vision*]

Whole problem with Forsberg being overrated is youtube era. Everyone is nitpicking video for his favour, but one should watch all the games and follow NHL at that time to make an opinion from whole picture.
Even Craig Janney delivered bone crushing hit in Phoenix. Someone had to make a video, another one had to post it here and I assure you there would be many people saying how good bodychecker Janney was.

I've seen tons of games throughout his entire career, and when the going got rough, he got rougher. I agree with you that you can cherry pick youtube clips to make a player seem better at a certain aspect of his game than he actually was... however this is not the case with Forsberg.

 

[Rhiessan71]

I've seen tons of games throughout his entire career, and when the going got rough, he got rougher. I agree with you that you can cherry pick youtube clips to make a player seem better at a certain aspect of his game than he actually was... however this is not the case with Forsberg.

That's all well and good but at the end of the day Forsberg was not even close to being like a Neely, Tocchet or LeClair.
As for centers, he doesn't even hold a candle to Lindros and I would put Messier and JR well ahead of Forsberg for any kind of "power center" or "power forward lite" rank.

Go watch some vid's of JR in the early 90's...puts Forsberg to shame for what we're talking about here.

Actually, I'll help ya out....

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

forsberg was much more physical than datsyuk.

Regardless, being able to throw a check doesn't make you a power forward.

Since everyone is posting YouTube clips to prove their point...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I don't think anyone claimed Forsberg was as physical as Lindros.

 

[redbull]

Whole problem with Forsberg being overrated is youtube era. Everyone is nitpicking video for his favour, but one should watch all the games and follow NHL at that time to make an opinion from whole picture.
Even Craig Janney delivered bone crushing hit in Phoenix. Someone had to make a video, another one had to post it here and I assure you there would be many people saying how good bodychecker Janney was.

that bolded part is kinda hilarious....sadly, your post makes too much sense.

I consider a power forward someone who can not only win battles, protect the puck, hit hard while scoring goals - but also someone with some kind of intimidation element. Intimidation can be a fighter, a big hit, fear of an opponent being hurt, a player that you didn't want to play against, that you'd think twice going into a corner with, were maybe fearful of a clean OR dirty hit.

Gordie Howe, Cam Neely, Eric Lindros, Rick Tocchet, Bobby Clarke, Mark Messier, Bryan Trottier - all had elements of this. I can see Forsberg being close as well.

Not all the players are huge, not all are great fighters - but all played physical and displayed incredible skill, all played better when games got more important and more physical. That's what you want from a power forward. In that respect, Forsberg was no different.

Apart from the fact that Trottier was a much better goalscorer, more physical, more durable and better defensively - you're right. Forsberg is probably the most similar player to Trottier since Trottier.

Gilmour didn't have the size of these other guys but that didn't stop him.

Lindros was a beast before injuries took him down. He was scary.

very good points.

 

[ponder]

Obviously "power forward" is not clearly defined. Forsberg had an edge to his game, was super strong on his skates, and knew how to use his body, but at the same time he relied more on his finesse game than brute power/strength to create offense, and wasn't running around the ice hitting like a mad man either. To compare him stylistically to modern players, think more along the lines of a Getzlaf/Oshie/Giroux type of player than a Lucic/Backes/Clowe type. Not directly comparing him to any of these guys, just putting him in that "skill players with a power aspect to his game" category as opposed to the "power player who also has skill" category. Didn't hit as much as Oshie or Getzlaf, but was similar to them in the way he used his excellent strength on his skates to protect the puck and win puck battles, while often using his skill to simply avoid people when possible.

 

[Lexus]

Here's a vintage Forsberg hit. He made an living out of these "offensive" hits.





You see them at 1:33 and 2:19 into this clip aswell.

 

[RabbinsDuck]

I guess I am biased against Forsberg a bit. Well, maybe not biased but I never overrate him like so many do on here. This is a guy who is praised for being so strong on his skates but he'd be right up there as the biggest diver in NHL history. I've always had a hard time calling anyone who dives "tough" or "rugged" or a power forward. Another thing, Forsberg never fought, he hit a bit but never game changers, he wasn't big either. Unless the term power forward has been altered, I just don't see it

He did fight Larionov!

I wouldn't put Forsberg in the power forward category.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

That's all well and good but at the end of the day Forsberg was not even close to being like a Neely, Tocchet or LeClair.
As for centers, he doesn't even hold a candle to Lindros and I would put Messier and JR well ahead of Forsberg for any kind of "power center" or "power forward lite" rank.

Go watch some vid's of JR in the early 90's...puts Forsberg to shame for what we're talking about here.

Actually, I'll help ya out....

You don't need to help me out with anything. I watched Roenick play his entire career, and while he may have hit more often than Forsberg early in his career, he was not any more punishing of a hitter. Forsberg hit when he needed to, and he would win any physical matchup against Roenick hands down.

 

[matnor]

I'm not sure I would call Forsberg a power forward. He wasn't really a consistent hitter, he mainly hit when he was angry. Just look at the various youtube clips posted in this thread, in many of them you can hear the commentators talking about how Forsberg was hitting people because he was upset. He was very much a player who played an emotional game which is also the reason he dove a lot. For him nothing mattered but winning and he would be absolutely devastated after a loss. That's why I think Sakic was a better fit for captain since I'm not sure you want a person that's so emotional as your leader.

As for him not fighting, the Nordiques management made it very clear when he came over to the NHL that they did not want him to fight and that Chris Simon was to do that instead. And given his injury proneness I think that was a good decision.

There's a lot of talk about Forsberg's physicality but his greatest asset by far was his vision and passing ability, that's what made him a great player. Only a handful players throughout the history of the NHL can rival him in that department. He was also great at slowing the game down and drawing the opposing players to him so that he could find the open man.

As for Forsberg being overrated, there are a lot of people who overrate him. But at this board I think he is one of the most disliked players (or, at least, peoples' opinion of him are very divisive, they either love or hate him). Talking about Forsberg as a youtube sensation which you often hear as a comment seems a bit farfetched. Besides watching hime play, there are a lot of stats that speak clearly of him as one of the best players of the last 20 years.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

Here's a vintage Forsberg hit. He made an living out of these "offensive" hits.





You see them at 1:33 and 2:19 into this clip aswell.

Who can/could skate circles around the other team at will and hit as well as he could? Answer; no one.

 

[begbeee]

Who can/could skate circles around the other team at will and hit as well as he could? Answer; no one.

Maybe he could skate circles around the other team at will and hit well, but scoresheet shows 3-0 for Chicago.

 

[Clown Baby*]

Yeah, I'm with Devil on this one and I'm not even sure I could go as far as "power forward lite" heh.

Power forwards to me are all about crashing corners and nets without the puck, making room for the rest of his line and scoring goals.

Then, you must not understand what a powerforward actually is, because in reality a PF is a skilled forward who uses physical play (legal or illegal) to intimidate the opposition. Very similar to a two-way forward, only instead of playing defense they destroy.

Forsberg was far too much of a puck carrier and playmaker and not a very good goal scorer.

His career shooting percentage is at 14% which is right on par with Kovalchuk. The only difference is Forsberg's career high single season shot total was 217. Compared to Ovechkin (528) and Kovalchuk (341), he was purely a playmaker.

 

[tombombadil]

Maybe he could skate circles around the other team at will and hit well, but scoresheet shows 3-0 for Chicago.

somebody end this thread!!! Case close, Chicago won!

 

[Rhiessan71]

Then, you must not understand what a powerforward actually is, because in reality a PF is a skilled forward who uses physical play (legal or illegal) to intimidate the opposition. Very similar to a two-way forward, only instead of playing defense they destroy.

Actually...a PF is someone that can put the puck in the net and dominate physically down low in the corners and in front of the net.
They have the ability to go through people to put the puck in the back of the net. Most importantly though, it's what a PF does for your team when they don't have the puck that defines their role.
Forsberg was good in the corners mucking it up but he wasn't dominant (not even close to a Lindros, Neely or Tocchet) and he certainly didn't play in front of the net much. PF's go hard to the net and make space for themselves and their teammates, Forsberg did not perform that role.
He was a half-boards guy, just like the majority of playmakers are.

His career shooting percentage is at 14% which is right on par with Kovalchuk. The only difference is Forsberg's career high single season shot total was 217. Compared to Ovechkin (528) and Kovalchuk (341), he was purely a playmaker.

Talk about shooting % all you want, the bottom line is that he had 2 30 goal seasons and 4 20 goal seasons total.
End of story.
Not to mention you just called him more of a playmaker, which PF's are not

 

[Canadiens1958]

Power Forward

At a very basic level is a forward who will wear-out the opposing forwards with his physical and mental dominance.

Not talking cheapshot artists like Dale Hunter, Claude Lemieux, Brad Marchand and their ilk but a player like an Iginla, Trottier, Lindros, Kevin Stevens, Gainey etc.

 

[Big Phil]

Well, atleast you admit you're biased against him.

To an extent yes, but it doesn't mean that my assesment of him is wrong

 

[Infinite Vision*]

To an extent yes, but it doesn't mean that my assesment of him is wrong

Of course not, but in my honest opinion it is.

 

[Hardyvan123]

I dont like Forsberg not because of his play or personality but because he is criminaly overrated everywhere.

Forsberg and power forward? I'm sorry but you have to be on the drugs. He certainly brought a physicality to his game, what is something rare for skilled playmaking centre and I'm giving him credit where the credit is due.
But as being mentioned he was much more a diver and dirty player but that is not equal to power forward.

Not sure how he is overrated.

He is one of the rare players who steps it up come playoff time and barring his vast injury record would be considered a top 10-15 player all time I would think.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Not sure how he is overrated.

He is one of the rare players who steps it up come playoff time and barring his vast injury record would be considered a top 10-15 player all time I would think.

He's overrated because of statements like that.
If, barring injuries, you could call Forsbreg a top 10-15 of all-time, then by that metric, Lindros, barring injuries, would be in the top 5-10 all-time. Lindros was a freakin monster and was that much better than Forsberg IMO.

Now since I don't believe Lindros, barring injuries, would be top 5-10 all-time, I can't very well agree that Forsberg, barring injuries, would be top 10-15 all-time.

You're basically saying that Forsberg, barring injuries, would of ended up ranked significantly higher than Sakic, Yzerman or even Jagr....I don't think so my friend.

Do your own top 25 list and then honestly try and find a spot in it for Forsberg.
A lot harder than it sounds.

 

[Hardyvan123]

He's overrated because of statements like that.
If, barring injuries, you could call Forsbreg a top 10-15 of all-time, then by that metric, Lindros, barring injuries, would be in the top 5-10 all-time. Lindros was a freakin monster and was that much better than Forsberg IMO.

Now since I don't believe Lindros, barring injuries, would be top 5-10 all-time, I can't very well agree that Forsberg, barring injuries, would be top 10-15 all-time.

You're basically saying that Forsberg, barring injuries, would of ended up ranked significantly higher than Sakic, Yzerman or even Jagr....I don't think so my friend.

Do your own top 25 list and then honestly try and find a spot in it for Forsberg.
A lot harder than it sounds.

Lindros as a top 5-10 would be a stretch as his playoff impact even in his monster seasons (1st 7) was quite a bit less than Forsberg.

Jagr I have rated higher than most here already and yes Forsberg, if healthy, assuming an average of 75 games a season (or 300-500 more games depending on how one looks at the shorted 95 and lockout 05 years) would be in the top 10-15 area hypothetically for me.

Take a close look at the years Sakic and Forsberg played together in col and there is a really strong argument that Forsberg was the more important Col player during their time together there.

We already have a large playoff sample for Forsberg and I rate him over the over 5 guys mentioned in your post come overall playoff performance,yes even Sakic with his CS.

Quite simply Forsberg was an extremely dominant player during his time both in the regular season and playoffs and the missed games due to injury and 1 and 1/2 seasons due to lockouts is what keep him out of the top 10-15 mix.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

Lindros as a top 5-10 would be a stretch as his playoff impact even in his monster seasons (1st 7) was quite a bit less than Forsberg.

Jagr I have rated higher than most here already and yes Forsberg, if healthy, assuming an average of 75 games a season (or 300-500 more games depending on how one looks at the shorted 95 and lockout 05 years) would be in the top 10-15 area hypothetically for me.

Take a close look at the years Sakic and Forsberg played together in col and there is a really strong argument that Forsberg was the more important Col player during their time together there.

We already have a large playoff sample for Forsberg and I rate him over the over 5 guys mentioned in your post come overall playoff performance,yes even Sakic with his CS.

Quite simply Forsberg was an extremely dominant player during his time both in the regular season and playoffs and the missed games due to injury and 1 and 1/2 seasons due to lockouts is what keep him out of the top 10-15 mix.

I believe Forsberg get's underrated for four main reasons. The era he played in, which is the lowest scoring era since pre-expansion. His injuries. The lockouts. These all caused him to miss considerable time in the prime of his career, which was basically his entire career until his last season. Also, the idea that he played second fiddle to Sakic. I bet Sakic himself would admit Forsberg was a better player than him, although on the contrary I would have to think Forsberg would say the same about Joe. Both were very humble characters, but if health was never a problem for him, and he played in a more wide open era, I agree he would be considered among the top 10-15 players of all-time. People can say what they want about him not playing enough games or scoring enough goals, but he dominated more than anyone in his era, regular season and playoffs included. He was such a special player it's a shame he has so many haters.

 

[VanIslander]

When Gretzky retired he was asked who was the best player in the league and he said there were several candidates and then only mentioned Forsberg by name and spoke about him for two minutes! Forsberg's passing gets overlooked, especially in goal-oriented highlight videos (which make him look like a puck hog, focussing in on the times he doesn't make a pass). Petr was a better passer than goal scorer imo.