Would you be okay with an extended losing streak if Bylsma gets canned?

Darth Vitale

Dark Matter
Aug 21, 2003
28,172
114
Darkness
I would have drafted a forward with the #8 pick after we dealt Staal. I would not have totally given up on drafting forwards because look at our forward prospect pool now, it has to be one of the worst in the league. Since we don't have young players cracking the roster, we continually have to sign scrubs like Kobasew. I would have bought out Glass.

A-OK. Now we have this, since Forsberg was the best F available at that slot.

Kunitz - Sid - Dupuis
Juice - Geno - Forsberg
Jeffrey - Sutter - Kobasew
Adams - Vitale - Megna

Yah that's really going to light the world on fire. BTW he's got 4 pts in 9 games and a -7 on one of the best defensive teams in the league.

I'm not suggesting that I know more than Shero, but I just want a new GM to come here and starry cutting the fat.

Yes, you pretty much ARE suggesting you know more but now that you have to back it up, you're probably seeing his options weren't as obvious and far-reaching as you inferred numerous times. Cut the fat?? What fat? Fat is usually meant to infer highly paid players who are not that talented / who don't put up many points. Like paying Michael Ryder or Ryane Clowe 5M a year.... that would be "fat" to be cut. We don't really have anyone like that. Other than our top players, our payscale is pretty lean by most contenders' standards. Maybe Fleury could be considered to fit this category but hey, if we'd bought him out like we all wanted we'd be about 3-8 right now because Zatkoff would be our starter and we'd be scrounging up any G trade we could muster, with zero leverage to get a good deal.


The pens are stuck with a stale roster. Dupuis and Kunitz are glued to the hips of Sid for 4 more years. That's unacceptable, sorry.

OK. At least here you have an arguable point. Both have trade clauses although IMO it would be pretty easy to trade either one of them if we had to. Those are the type of players a lot of teams would like to have. Up-and-coming teams like Colorado, Columbus, Winnipeg... so then the question is, who do you think comes back for the same or less money, who will do better?

Again, show us the obvious alternative.

Bring in a GM who doesn't strictly hoard / draft bottom pairing dmen.

Pretty sure Pouliot, Maatta, Harrington, Despres are not likely to be bottom pairing D their whole career. Maybe what you ought to do before posting (and this is just my opinion -- others might think I'm crazy) is think about what you're really trying to say, and then say it in a way that does not include a lot of hyperbole or exaggerated effects of some move or non-move you don't like. And in any case, provide more backing for your claims. FWIW.
 
Mar 22, 2010
11,493
6
Mother Base
A-OK. Now we have this, since Forsberg was the best F available at that slot.

Kunitz - Sid - Dupuis
Juice - Geno - Forsberg
Jeffrey - Sutter - Kobasew
Adams - Vitale - Megna

Yah that's really going to light the world on fire. BTW he's got 4 pts in 9 games and a -7 on one of the best defensive teams in the league.

I don't know much about Forsberg scouting wise, but I think Forsberg has more offensive upside than Kobasew or Jokinen. So yeah, I'd love to have Forsberg here. He's played 14! NHL games and is 19 years old. I'm sure Bennett wasn't the player at 19 that he is now.
 

Ragamuffin Gunner

Lost in the Flood
Aug 15, 2008
34,551
6,736
Boston
I don't know much about Forsberg scouting wise, but I think Forsberg has more offensive upside than Kobasew or Jokinen. So yeah, I'd love to have Forsberg here. He's played 14! NHL games and is 19 years old. I'm sure Bennett wasn't the player at 19 that he is now.

Having FF and BB for the next ~decade would have been huge for this team. For the next 3+ years you could have: a guy on his ELC or RFA contract - Sid/Geno - 5M+ winger.

The DP pick pretty much sums up Shero in a nutshell, IMO. The Pens had just traded Staal and gotten back his replacement, a near NHL ready Dman and the 8th pick with the 3rd ranked forward still on the board. Instead of picking the BPA (FF) or the BDA (Truba) Shero goes off the board for a small PMD who was 3+ years away. The reason he picked him is because he fell in love with Dp while scouting Morrow. He had visions of a future DP-Morrow pairing tearing up the NHL like they did in JRs.

Fast forward to now; he traded Morrow for a broken 4th liner, the guy he picked a 22 made the team over DP, FF and Truba are both in the NHL, and we have to play our 8th Dman on the 4th line because of 2 injuries.
 

IcedCapp

Registered User
Aug 7, 2009
35,855
11,225
No, because Bylsma isn't the one signing Adams and Glass and sending players up and down.

The coach may change, but the overall philosophy is coming from Shero.

I used to think it was Dan, but last season + this off-season convinced me otherwise.
 

Ragamuffin Gunner

Lost in the Flood
Aug 15, 2008
34,551
6,736
Boston
No, because Bylsma isn't the one signing Adams and Glass and sending players up and down.

The coach may change, but the overall philosophy is coming from Shero.

I used to think it was Dan, but last season + this off-season convinced me otherwise.

I put a lot of blame on Shero's shoulders, but he went out of his comfort zone and stacked the roster last year. DB proceeded to play Iggy on LW and refused to break up KCD. You can't fault Shero for how Iggy was used.

You can (and should) fault Shero on keeping DB, Duper and Adams this summer, however.
 

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
Feb 19, 2013
39,728
7,402
Injured Reserve
No, because Bylsma isn't the one signing Adams and Glass and sending players up and down.

The coach may change, but the overall philosophy is coming from Shero.

I used to think it was Dan, but last season + this off-season convinced me otherwise.

I think a coach that doesn't compound Shero's issues would really help, as would one who didn't mess up what Shero does right.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,532
21,073
Having FF and BB for the next ~decade would have been huge for this team. For the next 3+ years you could have: a guy on his ELC or RFA contract - Sid/Geno - 5M+ winger.

The DP pick pretty much sums up Shero in a nutshell, IMO. The Pens had just traded Staal and gotten back his replacement, a near NHL ready Dman and the 8th pick with the 3rd ranked forward still on the board. Instead of picking the BPA (FF) or the BDA (Truba) Shero goes off the board for a small PMD who was 3+ years away. The reason he picked him is because he fell in love with Dp while scouting Morrow. He had visions of a future DP-Morrow pairing tearing up the NHL like they did in JRs.

Fast forward to now; he traded Morrow for a broken 4th liner, the guy he picked a 22 made the team over DP, FF and Truba are both in the NHL, and we have to play our 8th Dman on the 4th line because of 2 injuries.

Forgetting for the moment that taking the guy to make the NHL first isn't the aim of any NHL GM, why doesn't Shero get credit for taking a guy at 22 who did make the NHL?

Is Stan Bowman an idiot for taking Teravainen at 18 over Maatta? He must be, since Maatta made the NHL and TT didn't.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Fire Shero*

Guest
A-OK. Now we have this, since Forsberg was the best F available at that slot.

Kunitz - Sid - Dupuis
Juice - Geno - Forsberg
Jeffrey - Sutter - Kobasew
Adams - Vitale - Megna

Yah that's really going to light the world on fire. BTW he's got 4 pts in 9 games and a -7 on one of the best defensive teams in the league.

He's putting up far better numbers in the NHL than Pouiliot. I thought the whole justification in drafting DP was to take over for Letang? Letang is here for the long run, thank god we used the #8 pick on a guy 5 years away from being an everyday NHLer.

We would be in much better shape with Forsberg and Bennett on this team as opposed to some guy who who won't play here until Sid and Geno are in their 30's.

Kobasew is not goods jokinen should be a third line winger. Plus we have idiots like Adams and Glass. There are way too many forwards on this team who don't belong on a cup contending team . Sure, every team has a couple of poor players, but half of our forwards are junk. But we will continue drafting dmen so ******* can go dumpster diving for forwards every gee dee summer.
 

Houston Penguin

Texas Pen
Mar 17, 2007
2,826
25
LA & GA to TX
I wouldn't say I "want" an extended losing streak but I suggested back in June, that we might be better off long-term if there was a nasty streak this fall and Bylsma was replaced with someone more seasoned / tuned to playoff matchups etc.

Now that Jacques is here, it's a no-brainer what would come next. Rossi and those toolbags can PR it up all they want talking about how "Disco wanted Jacques here" etc but there's a flipside to that move, and that is, Martin is almost guranteed to succeed Bylsma in the event of a firing, whereas that was not true of any of Disco's assistants or anyone in WBS IMO.

I do know for a fact though that Jacob is right about one thing: it wouldn't take even 30 days for people to start *****ing about Martin. As I said yesterday in other threads, we're spoiled. We think we're better than we are, we think we're entitled to gripe when we're 7-3, etc etc. Sometimes it's warranted (Bylsma DOES do some amazingly stupid **** sometimes, it seems to me... as do some of our better players) but mostly we get bent out of shape too soon as a group, and exaggerate stuff too much or imply things are easier for a coach than they are.
I still want Disco to get better and he's shown signs here and there but lately the Islanders game and the Engo at F + Bortuzzo scratch thing has me thinking this guy is just delusional when it comes to the "grind em down" ****. I believe Bylsma has an over-simplified view of the game (if I had to guess based on what he does with this personnel).

Bold .... PERFECT.

Our team went 7-3 through the first ten games, leading the conference, and this page sounds like a Carolina or Islanders page of years past.

Here's something no one has said ..... maybe other teams have finally gotten tired of getting beat up by us and they have built their teams to BEAT US. Philly did, Toronto has, Boston has. Hell, even the Islanders have.

WE can change the make up of this team, but some of y'all are just ridiculous wanting to have three rookies in the defensive top six? What team has WON with that?

Be realistic, JESUS!
 

Fire Shero*

Guest
I just don't see how any fan can honesty be happy with shero at this point.

He has had one productive summer in free agency when he signed Martin and Michalek. (Who was later donated to PHX)

He has drafted 2 respectable forwards in 7 years. (Even Shero couldn't totally screw up with the #2 pick). We've had no goalies come through our system worth anything.

Shero can do 2 things right, trade and draft dmen. Except he dealt one of his prized defenseman for a broken morrow. Maybe Shero's dmen aren't worth much, he had the luxury of having Whitney and gogo who were in their 7th seasons before they were valuable assets.

Shero has ensured Sid will play with two idiots for the next 4 seasons.

Sid can't find a LW to play with Geno.

This team is no better than it was 3 years ago. You want to get better every year, we pens fans have accepted that we get worse each years. That's not right.

Shero has been a failure, es be then 7 years. It's time to move on.
 

Fire Shero*

Guest
Bold .... PERFECT.

Our team went 7-3 through the first ten games, leading the conference, and this page sounds like a Carolina or Islanders page of years past.

Here's something no one has said ..... maybe other teams have finally gotten tired of getting beat up by us and they have built their teams to BEAT US. Philly did, Toronto has, Boston has. Hell, even the Islanders have.

WE can change the make up of this team, but some of y'all are just ridiculous wanting to have three rookies in the defensive top six? What team has WON with that?

Be realistic, JESUS!

I really don't think teams factor in the pens when they build their teams. Maybe the islanders? But their biggest weak spot last season was poor goaltending, and they didn't do a damn thing about it.

Philly made drastic changes because they wanted to get younger and rid the roster of the party animals. These teams don't care about the pens, teams know if they shutdown Crosby it's an easy game.
 

DanFailsma

Registered User
Mar 31, 2013
406
0
PA, USA
Shero has ensured Sid will play with two idiots for the next 4 seasons.
I see this sentiment a lot. However, I think if Sid didn't want to play on a line with Kunitz or Dupuis, he wouldn't have to. He's probably the one guy on the team who could complain to Mario and force some moving parts. That hasn't happened. Sid must enjoy playing with those guys.
 

Ragamuffin Gunner

Lost in the Flood
Aug 15, 2008
34,551
6,736
Boston
Forgetting for the moment that taking the guy to make the NHL first isn't the aim of any NHL GM, why doesn't Shero get credit for taking a guy at 22 who did make the NHL?

Is Stan Bowman an idiot for taking Teravainen at 18 over Maatta? He must be, since Maatta made the NHL and TT didn't.

#RagamuffinLogic

I never said he doesn't get credit for taking Olli when he fell to him. But don't act like picking a guy at 22 who was ranked 10th is the same as picking a guy at 8th who was ranked 17th.

Trevo fell to 18th from 7th, so picking him over Olli wasn't a bad move. Nice try though.

#InSheroWeTrust
#FastestTo200
 

mpp9

Registered User
Dec 5, 2010
32,613
5,067
I never said he doesn't get credit for taking Olli when he fell to him. But don't act like picking a guy at 22 who was ranked 10th is the same as picking a guy at 8th who was ranked 17th.

Trevo fell to 18th from 7th, so picking him over Olli wasn't a bad move. Nice try though.

#InSheroWeTrust
#FastestTo200

Again, there are no set rankings. So your argument will always fall on itself over and over.

We have a stud in Maatta who looks like he may be getting groomed for a spot next to Letang as soon as next year. That's a hell of a return on a #22 overall pick.

Pouliot is a longer ways away. But his upside is tremendous. A legit PP QB. We all like to praise our skill on the PP, but we could absolutely use an upgrade at the point there. Sid isn't comfortable there, nor is Geno. And Letang is a stopgap solution there at best.

I said in the other thread, but I'd be surprised if Shero doesn't make a hockey trade this year. Surplus/expendable D for a winger with some top 6 ability but most importantly, size and net front skills.
 

Ragamuffin Gunner

Lost in the Flood
Aug 15, 2008
34,551
6,736
Boston
I see this sentiment a lot. However, I think if Sid didn't want to play on a line with Kunitz or Dupuis, he wouldn't have to. He's probably the one guy on the team who could complain to Mario and force some moving parts. That hasn't happened. Sid must enjoy playing with those guys.

1 - Sid's not the type of guy to complain about his line-mantes

2 - Even if he was it's DB's job to make the right line-up decisions not Sid's.
 

JTG

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
50,370
5,670
If we were to get rid of DB, who are we hiring? Martin? I don't want to watch that and it'd take a very short time for people to turn against Martin. Granato? Reirden? Hines? Who else is there? Coaches are constantly being recycled here, and most of them aren't any good.
 

JTG

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
50,370
5,670
I would have drafted a forward with the #8 pick after we dealt Staal. I would not have totally given up on drafting forwards because look at our forward prospect pool now, it has to be one of the worst in the league. Since we don't have young players cracking the roster, we continually have to sign scrubs like Kobasew. I would have bought out Glass.

I'm not suggesting that I know more than Shero, but I just want a new GM to come here and starry cutting the fat.

The pens are stuck with a stale roster. Dupuis and Kunitz are glued to the hips of Sid for 4 more years. That's unacceptable, sorry.

Bring in a GM who doesn't strictly hoard / draft bottom pairing dmen.

You have no idea what you're talking about.
 

mpp9

Registered User
Dec 5, 2010
32,613
5,067
If we were to get rid of DB, who are we hiring? Martin? I don't want to watch that and it'd take a very short time for people to turn against Martin. Granato? Reirden? Hines? Who else is there? Coaches are constantly being recycled here, and most of them aren't any good.

I'd say the biggest problem over the past few seasons aside from injuries has been structure and accountability. If you replace DB, you bring in someone who'd focus on bringing those two traits back to this hockey team.
 

Shockmaster

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
16,006
3,373
I don't think the Penguins need the second-coming of Jesus to be their head coach. I don't even think the system needs to be over-hauled. I think right now they need a coach that does a few simple things:

1.) Use the best players as often as possible. Quit trying to use try-hard guys like Engelland and Kobasew while benching young guys with pedigree. Also, more Crosby and Malkin on the PK.

2.) Put together good line combinations.

3.) Whenever the players are being stupid, let them know it. Sometimes a coach has to raise his voice or kick a garbage can.

4.) Have a Plan B.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->