Would ya look at that?: Mo is a bonafide #1 dman

[93LEAFS]

Lindholm is a god defensively. He's also above average offensively, but points don't show it. By far the best defensive player in the league. I'm not saying he has the ability to play in Rielly's role, but i do think Lindholm's skillset is much better than Rielly's.



Well, he does. He just doesn't put up the points. He creates chances/shots up there with great offensive defenseman.

He's above average offensively, but I don't think he has the offensive ability to be a true #1 in this league. Rielly checks more of those boxes in regards to versatility.

I also seriously wonder what Rielly's underlying metrics would look like if he ever had a defensive partner like Josh Manson. He hasn't had a single partner in the last 3 years who could be described as a top pairing D-man. Zaitsev is at-best a #3 and probably a 4, and Hainsey is at-best a #4, who is looking like a bottom pairing guy.

 

[RoadWarrior]

A prime Kaberle is exactly what this team needs right now. Someone that can effortlessly move the puck out of danger and set up Rielly on the point, while logging 20 + mins a night. I miss Kabs...

His name is Sandin...... coming soon.

 

[BAM]

Lindholm is a god defensively. He's also above average offensively, but points don't show it. By far the best defensive player in the league. I'm not saying he has the ability to play in Rielly's role, but i do think Lindholm's skillset is much better than Rielly's.



Well, he does. He just doesn't put up the points. He creates chances/shots up there with great offensive defenseman.

Points are what matters to call a player great offensively. A guy with a career high of 34 points is not great offensively. It's like having a player with great underlying numbers but hasn't put up the points yet to match it, he's got to actually put up the numbers.

Lindholm is better than Rielly defensively, however Rielly is much better offensively. Rielly put up 36 points on the Leafs tank roster that had Kadri as the leading scorer with 45 points. That's very impressive considering how little he had to work with. Those 36 points are also 2 more than Lindholm's highest season total ever. Lindholm has the edge on Rielly defensively, but the gap is massive offensively, especially going forward.

Rielly plays with Hainsey who's a bottom pairing d-man at this point, Manson is Lindholm's partner...Manson got norris votes last year for comparison to Hainsey. Better defensively also has to do a lot with who you're playing with and the team defense as well.

 

[Cor]

I've been saying he was a #1 for the past season and a half almost.

 

[diceman934]

Forsberg and Lindholm are 1/2, and he's fighting with Slavin for 3/4 (I have him 3, but Slavin is just as good if not better).

Rielly is the best player out of that draft is so underrated it is criminal. If he played for any other team he would be spoken about as the others on here who are considered elite.

 

[tom leafers]

Pound for pound there arent too many stronger players then Rielly he's 6'1 218. To put that into perepesctive Matthews is 2 inches taller and has 2 pounds on him... Rielly is getting better and better. He hasn't even peaked yet.

holy hell, i actually never realized Rielly was that big

 

[Leafling]

Oh so that's what happens when u trust ur picks and don't trade them ... Mind blown!

Hopefully we do the same for liljegren n Rosen too

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

holy hell, i actually never realized Rielly was that big

He's gradually put on more weight over the years he was listed 215 last year and 208 the year before I believe. So it's very natural strength and progression unlike a lot of guys.
He looks stronger and faster out there this year forsure compared to even last year.

 

[loki2185]

Exactly, the only people that hold that opinion that Doughty is so mistake free don't watch him play. Yes, Doughty is a bit better than Rielly defensively, but it's not that huge.

i agree. like i said in another thread everybody watches the leafs even the haters. so when leafs players mess up everyone witnesses it. meanwhile nobody really watches full games of the other teams so everyone relies on highlights thinking thats how they play all the time.

 

[LeafFever]

Put Rielly on the Florida Panthers and he's a #1 stud to everyone on HF.

 

[Morgs]

It is difficult to objectively compare similar players playing in different systems on different teams.

Gostisbehere for example is a career .68 PPG player. Reilly is a .47 PPG.

Would you trade Rielly for Parayko and Slavin? Probably could have traded 5th. overall for a 3rd. and a 4th.? LOL

I'm okay with Rielly, I just find his decision making defensively tends to lag in comparison to other top defenders who seem to anticipate plays.

Absolutely I would do that trade haha. This draft was known as a 'defensman draft' because of that top-10, but realistically 3/6 best ones busted (compared to expecations). 3 are top-pairing D

 

[Morgs]

Rielly is the best player out of that draft is so underrated it is criminal. If he played for any other team he would be spoken about as the others on here who are considered elite.

He's a top-15 defenseman in hockey. Forsberg and Lindholm are more impactful and have been for longer.

 

[Morgs]

Points are what matters to call a player great offensively. A guy with a career high of 34 points is not great offensively. It's like having a player with great underlying numbers but hasn't put up the points yet to match it, he's got to actually put up the numbers.

Lindholm is better than Rielly defensively, however Rielly is much better offensively. Rielly put up 36 points on the Leafs tank roster that had Kadri as the leading scorer with 45 points. That's very impressive considering how little he had to work with. Those 36 points are also 2 more than Lindholm's highest season total ever. Lindholm has the edge on Rielly defensively, but the gap is massive offensively, especially going forward.

Rielly plays with Hainsey who's a bottom pairing d-man at this point, Manson is Lindholm's partner...Manson got norris votes last year for comparison to Hainsey. Better defensively also has to do a lot with who you're playing with and the team defense as well.

Points, especially secondary and PP points are the most overrated way to evaluate players. Offense should be rated based on a players ability to create it, which puts Rielly in one of the top tiers in the league (basically with a guy like Josi) and that's not including points, which are honestly more luck than anything.

Defensively you say Lindholm is better. Lindholm is a god. He's the best defensive defenseman in hockey, and he creates chances/shots at an above average rate as well. He's much closer to Mo offensively than Mo is to him defensively, which is clearly Mo's biggest weakness looking at stats alone.

Hainsey has actually been good this season, and although it's obvious his offense is being carried by #44, Hainsey is clearly taking on the brunt of the defensive responsibilities and doing much better than people are giving him credit for.

Lindholm's partner is actually Montour this season, but Manson has been his primary partner the last few years. Much better player than Hainsey, but it doesn't limit the fact that Lindholm is a god.

I'm not even trying to chirp Rielly here, I think he's a top-15 defenseman in hockey. Lindholm is just arguably top-5 based on his overall impact to his team.

 

[ER89]

He has too many limitations to be considered a #1. On a contending team he is a #2 or 3. His poor hockey IQ is something he will never overcome. He has been in the league multiple years and still has rookie brain farts, and he doesn’t understand situational hockey.

He is a great skater and moves the puck well. It’s too bad he is a low IQ player and isn’t difficult to play against at all, or else he would be a #1.

Just because he is the #1 on one of the worst defensive units the NHL has seen this decade, doesn’t make him a number one. That’s like saying David Desharnais was a #1 center in MTL...

Why do you spew this crap? Why are like ALL of your takes so bad? Every. Single. One.

 

[Morgs]

He's above average offensively, but I don't think he has the offensive ability to be a true #1 in this league. Rielly checks more of those boxes in regards to versatility.

I also seriously wonder what Rielly's underlying metrics would look like if he ever had a defensive partner like Josh Manson. He hasn't had a single partner in the last 3 years who could be described as a top pairing D-man. Zaitsev is at-best a #3 and probably a 4, and Hainsey is at-best a #4, who is looking like a bottom pairing guy.

I could only imagine what Rielly could do with a legitimate 'shutdown' defenseman beside him that isnt a blackhole offensively.

Until we see him with a Slavin or Lindholm though, we're just going to have to accept a guy who creates a ridiculous amount of shots/chances and also gets blasted (albeit less in comparison) in his own zone.

 

[93LEAFS]

I could only imagine what Rielly could do with a legitimate 'shutdown' defenseman beside him that isnt a blackhole offensively.

Until we see him with a Slavin or Lindholm though, we're just going to have to accept a guy who creates a ridiculous amount of shots/chances and also gets blasted (albeit less in comparison) in his own zone.

I'm not even asking for a Slavin or Lindholm. Just someone who resembles a 2/3 defenceman.

While we allow a lot of shows against, part of that is the style we have implemented and has led us to be a high-event team. Thankfully, with Rielly on the ice, we are generally on the right side of shot attempts (although, not on the right side of unblocked shot attempts).

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Thank God for Brian Burke...

He was paid a lot of money for making two good draft picks. Reilly and Kadri. Awful trades, dreadful UFA signings.

And now he has a gig as an analyst . Don't think anyone has ever been paid so much for accomplishing so little.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Dave Poulin is just upset the Oilers are terrible.
Dubas>Chirelli

I saw Poulin's ability to analyse hockey talent when he "worked" as Leaf executive. There is a reason he now a talking head.

 

[LeafFever]

He's a top-15 defenseman in hockey. Forsberg and Lindholm are more impactful and have been for longer.

Eh, Rielly is a Dman and could pass Forsberg's career high in points this year.
D are much more important than wingers. Forsberg is putting up Nylander stats.

 

[Morgs]

Eh, Rielly is a Dman and could pass Forsberg's career high in points this year.
D are much more important than wingers. Forsberg is putting up Nylander stats.

Both Nylander and Forsberg are better players than Rielly.

 

[BAM]

Points, especially secondary and PP points are the most overrated way to evaluate players. Offense should be rated based on a players ability to create it, which puts Rielly in one of the top tiers in the league (basically with a guy like Josi) and that's not including points, which are honestly more luck than anything.

Defensively you say Lindholm is better. Lindholm is a god. He's the best defensive defenseman in hockey, and he creates chances/shots at an above average rate as well. He's much closer to Mo offensively than Mo is to him defensively, which is clearly Mo's biggest weakness looking at stats alone.

Hainsey has actually been good this season, and although it's obvious his offense is being carried by #44, Hainsey is clearly taking on the brunt of the defensive responsibilities and doing much better than people are giving him credit for.

Lindholm's partner is actually Montour this season, but Manson has been his primary partner the last few years. Much better player than Hainsey, but it doesn't limit the fact that Lindholm is a god.

I'm not even trying to chirp Rielly here, I think he's a top-15 defenseman in hockey. Lindholm is just arguably top-5 based on his overall impact to his team.

Lindholm is not better than Doughty, Hedman, Karlsson, Josi, Jones or Subban. That's just laughable. Lindholm and Rielly are both in the top 15 of D-men, in the 10-15 range.

 

[LeafFever]

Both Nylander and Forsberg are better players than Rielly.

Good lord.
They better start scoring more then. They are wingers and Rielly is a #1 D who can get 50-60 points per season and play against the oppositions' best players.

 

[Community]

He was paid a lot of money for making two good draft picks. Reilly and Kadri. Awful trades, dreadful UFA signings.

And now he has a gig as an analyst . Don't think anyone has ever been paid so much for accomplishing so little.

Burke was not a good GM for this team, but he made 3 of the best trades for the Leafs in the past 20 years. You cant criticize him for poor trades, he was just archaic in his team building and that really caught up to him in his tenure here. He didnt put in the effort to change his team identity and thats why he is not a GM anymore.

As for trades:

Spare parts for Phaneuf? Good deal.

Beauchemin for Gardiner + Lupul? Huge win.

Schenn for JVR? Massive win.

 

[LeafFever]

Burke was not a good GM for this team, but he made 3 of the best trades for the Leafs in the past 20 years. You cant criticize him for poor trades, he was just archaic in his team building and that really caught up to him in his tenure here. He didnt put in the effort to change his team identity and thats why he is not a GM anymore.

As for trades:

Spare parts for Phaneuf? Good deal.

Beauchemin for Gardiner + Lupul? Huge win.

Schenn for JVR? Massive win.

Agreed. his trades were solid. The Kessel one makes everyone forget about all the others.

 

[Morgs]

Lindholm is not better than Doughty, Hedman, Karlsson, Josi, Jones or Subban. That's just laughable. Lindholm and Rielly are both in the top 15 of D-men, in the 10-15 range.

Hes not as good as Hedman or Karlsson. He's arguably as good as Jones, OEL, Josi, Doughty, Burns, Subban.