Would the Flames have beat the Ducks if they had a healthy Gio

Fig

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Dec 15, 2014
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I would say in the best case scenario, game 1 wouldn't have been a complete ass whoopin' for us and we might have squeezed out another win, but the end result would have been the same and we'd be doing a whole other hypothetical post.

Would we have hypothethically won the hypothetical series if we had not traded away Glencross and Baertchi and Gaudreau had made finalist for Calder? :sarcasm:

Oh... and the "Gio wins Norris for sure" threads. :naughty:
 

Sojourn

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Nov 1, 2006
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Yep. I agree with your butterfly effect comments and analysis. I could understand if someone asked a hypothetical and asked about an outcome of perhaps a single game (ie: Slot Gio in game 5, do we win OT?), but not a full series or a long stretch. IMO, penalties did both teams in for game 3 (Ducks), 4 (Calgary) and 5 (Calgary) as key goals were scored on the PP in those games. Game 1 was a huge rallying point IMO. It was a huge learning experience and wouldn't really call it a wake up call. I believe style wise, we came into game 1 with the wrong style play and were at a disadvantage due to it. By game 3 (IMO) we had developed game play that made us reasonably competitive (within 1 goal each if we exclude empty netter).

The best part of hockey at times is the fact it's such a free flow game. Play 20 games over and over with the same rosters and the outcome can be completely different 20 times. Adding Gio might have a ripple effect or a splash, but with the strong current that the Ducks had the whole time, I would agree with you, Ducks win anyways as a splash or ripple doesn't affect a current. Maybe we delay the inevitable at most.

That being said, I believe that Gio had a part in the kid's doing well after Gio was out. I wouldn't say this season comes to fruition in spite of Gio, because I believe he had a big hand in the way the season ended as well as how the early season unfolded. Dude was back training within days after the initial injury and surgery.

On a side note... hypothetical are sorta fun when you begin to consider butterfly effect. :)

The variables get pretty insane in a hurry, and the more you start to think about it, and pay attention to all the little things that could be different, the more insane it gets.

Ah well. I thought it was a good series, and I have a lot of respect for Calgary. I think that team is going places. Color me a Gaudreau fan now.
 

xxreact9

Registered User
Jun 4, 2012
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No chance. Respect to the flames fans who admit it. It's not as simple as saying "they didn't have their best player, so they would have automatically won more games".

It could very well have been 4-1 still.
 

Fig

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Dec 15, 2014
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The variables get pretty insane in a hurry, and the more you start to think about it, and pay attention to all the little things that could be different, the more insane it gets.

Ah well. I thought it was a good series, and I have a lot of respect for Calgary. I think that team is going places. Color me a Gaudreau fan now.

I enjoyed this series as well. I wasn't a huge Gaudreau fan until around December. I've more been a Bennett fan since pre season.

Both have made me grin like a goofus though. :laugh:

The tower and two timbits and the skittles bit about Gaudreau are worth looking into. Should be official Flames media stuff out there regarding it :)
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
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Nope. Gio is great but not good enough to change the dominance that the Ducks had over the Flames that series.

Really excited to see how good the Flames can be in the next couple years though.
 

hangman005

Face for Radio, Voice for Silent Movies
Apr 19, 2015
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perhaps, but frankly they were really lucky canucks blew that huge lead back in game 6 and their rookies being extremely clutch throughout the post season.

If i was a flames fan i would be extremely proud of my teams' run.

But that was Flames biggest mistake, winning in 6 not 7. If we won in 7 cup finals baby hahahaha

I think he was worth another win at least, maybe even two. The D was gassed especially the likes of Brodie, Russel and Wideman, but more depth defensively could have helped alot too.

Also to counter that, I think if the ducks didn't have Getslaf say he was out injured, I think the flames maybe get a game out of that, but it wouldn't necessarily cost the ducks the series.

At the end of the day though, with Gio in or Getslaf out, it's a whole difference series. Maybe we don't get blown out one day, maybe the Saddledome catches fire or maybe the California drops into the ocean.

The ducks were the better team and the ducks won, I am so proud of how the Flames played regardless of the outcome.
 

crazyhawk

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Apr 8, 2011
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One of the colour commentators last night said that the Flames are not unlike the 2008 Hawks with Gaudreau and Monahan mirroring Kane and Toews.
I don't think this is too far off the mark and as the Hawks missed the playoffs by a bit that first year they made it to the conference finals in 2009.
I think Calgary over achieved this year which is great and it will only serve to get them hungrier going forward.
Maybe a WCF in the next year or two ...
 

Stephen23

Registered User
Aug 22, 2009
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Halifax, NS
No. A lot of people are underrating the Ducks for some reason this year. They are a very good team and having shored up the #2 C with Kesler has made them even better.
 

Fig

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Dec 15, 2014
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I think a more interesting question is... What would have happened if no Beleskey this series. :sarcasm:

I think series would have gone to 6 or 7, Ducks still win.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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For sure Gio would have made the Flames win the series. Probably a sweep even. Teams that are greatly out possessed and beaten in five games are typically only one player away from being the better team.

I know you think you're being clever with that, but consider this:

Wideman/Russell is one of the worst possession D pairings in the NHL, although they're s pretty good 2nd pairing overall. They were Calgary's top pairing against the Getzlaf line.

Engelland is an atrocious possession Dman. He dragged Brodie down by a huge margin since the Gio injury. As a 10 minute third pairing guy he can be okay, though he's still a guy who was -16 during the regular season. As an 18 minute second pairing guy? He was way outmatched and it shows in many ways, from possession stats to him being on the ice for five goals against in game 1.

Giordano is an excellent possession player. The Brodie/Gio pairing is the best pairijgs in the NHL in CorsiREL - no other pairing in the entire league has as profound an impact on its team in terms of swinging possession positively. They would have been Calgary's top pairing againdt the Getzlaf line, also allowing the Russell/Wideman pairing to focus better on containing the Kesler line, in turn opening up space for the Monahan line. The Trio of Backlund / Brodie / Giordano has had a 60% corsi for when together the last few years so they probably would have had better success not getting hemmed in by the Getzlaf line.

Schlemko-Engelland would have been an okay bottom pairing, as Schlemko is a very good possession player and while Engelland would drag him down, it wouldn't be as profound due to the much worse quality of competition. The Flames Bottom 6 forwards were outplaying the Ducks Bottom 6 in this series, btw.

Every single Ducks Forward vs Flames D matchup changes with Giordano in the mix. That could have made a significant difference in terms of possession. Enough to swing those one goal games where Belesky was having a field day.

I can't predict hypotheticals, but it would have been a completely different series. Games 2, 3, 4, and 5 were all close games. Hell, maybe they score on that 1-minute 5-on-3 with Gio in the mix. Maybe their PK is better to open the third periods of games 4 and 5 and they're coming back to Calgary with a 3-2 series lead. Who knows? Hopefully we'll find out next year.
 
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Rebuilt

Registered User
Jun 8, 2014
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It would have been harder but Ducks would have won in 6 or 7.

I disagree. The Ducks are notorious for playing up/ down to their opposition. This is a matter of coaching style that BB insists on having. He is a reactionary coach.

You will see the Ducks magically look the same against the Hawks and wonder.......are the Flames and Jets as good as the Hawks? Ducks are doing the same thing to them too.
 

Ace Rimmer

Stoke me a clipper.
While it's no guarantee (and admittedly unlikely) the Flames win the series with Giordano, they certainly would have been a better team in their own zone.

Not only does Giordano coming back give the Flames one of the top defensemen in the league, but it also adjusts everyone else's ice time down, allowing them to play better. Russell, Wideman, and Brodie were all well north of 25 minutes/game, that's just not sustainable during the playoffs especially against a team like Anaheim.

So I can say this - it would have been a much more competitive series. Ducks are still built better than the Flames for the playoffs and would likely have prevailed, but it wouldn't have been as one-sided as we saw.
 

JC704

Registered User
Jan 6, 2012
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Gio was a top 5/7 D in the NHL this season. That to a playoff team is worth, at least, 1/2 more games, so I say yes. Ducks would have still won, but much more likely in 6 or 7 games.

Flames are in a good spot.
 

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