Would the creation of an all Canadian division make sense if we went to 36 teams?

[HugoSimon]

Assuming you get something similar to a Nordiques and GTA2 expansion, would it not make sense to wrap up all the Canadians teams as their own division. If they were technically part of the western conference it'll help a lot of American teams move east. In addition it'd mean making the American tv contract more appealing if there were more in division games. With 18 teams in the east and 9 american and 9 canadian in the west, you'd have way better game times. Again you'd have to assume there is less inter division games but still I wonder about it.

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[gstommylee]

Assuming you get something similar to a Nordiques and GTA2 expansion, would it not make sense to wrap up all the Canadians teams as their own division. If they were technically part of the western conference it'll help a lot of American teams move east. In addition it'd mean making the American tv contract more appealing if there were more in division games. With 18 teams in the east and 9 american and 9 canadian in the west, you'd have way better game times. Again you'd have to assume there is less inter division games but still I wonder about it.

A canadain separate division will never happen. NHL and the NHLPA would never approve it. Neither would the Canadian teams themselves. The point of the current alignment is to get the eastern time zone teams in their own conference. 1 Division covering all 4 times zones is a bad idea.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

That just seems like a brutal travel schedule and one that doesn't make sense for TV either. I'm not buying it for the NHL. That being said, if for some reason the NHL wanted to reverse and change the league to be like the NFL and have four-team divisions, having an Eastern and Western all-Canadian division might be an attractive option, though I'm not sure splitting up Montreal/Boston and Vancouver/Seattle is really the most appealing of options for the league. I don't remotely think that they're considering it, though.

I suppose that'd be one way to guarantee that the drought would be broken though, by essentially mandating that every conference final would have a Canadian team in it (assuming divisional playoffs were kept).

 

[gstommylee]

That just seems like a brutal travel schedule and one that doesn't make sense for TV either. I'm not buying it for the NHL. That being said, if for some reason the NHL wanted to reverse and change the league to be like the NFL and have four-team divisions, having an Eastern and Western all-Canadian division might be an attractive option, though I'm not sure splitting up Montreal/Boston and Vancouver/Seattle is really the most appealing of options for the league. I don't remotely think that they're considering it, though.

I suppose that'd be one way to guarantee that the drought would be broken though, by essentially mandating that every conference final would have a Canadian team in it (assuming divisional playoffs were kept).

Making a requirement that a Canadian must be on conference final would never happen the US teams would never approve of it.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Making a requirement that a Canadian must be on conference final would never happen the US teams would never approve of it.

It wouldn't be a requirement, but it'd be a reality if an all Canadian division existed while the NHL kept divisional playoffs.

 

[gstommylee]

It wouldn't be a requirement, but it'd be a reality if an all Canadian division existed while the NHL kept divisional playoffs.

And all canadain division would never happen. No one would approve it.

 

[Mightygoose]

I doubt even the Canadian based owners would go for it never mind advocate it.

Maybe Rogers on a national scale would want it but I don't think having extra games out of the timezones would interest the regional feeds.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

And all canadain division would never happen. No one would approve it.

Which is what I said, so not sure why you're quoting me making that point.

 

[HugoSimon]

Making a requirement that a Canadian must be on conference final would never happen the US teams would never approve of it.

They'd go against the western division leader. Just like they do now.

You're essentially swapping nashville/chicago/st louis with toronto/ottawa/montreal.

 

[HugoSimon]

That just seems like a brutal travel schedule and one that doesn't make sense for TV either. I'm not buying it for the NHL. That being said, if for some reason the NHL wanted to reverse and change rgthe league to be like the NFL and have four-team divisions, having an Eastern and Western all-Canadian division might be an attractive option, though I'm not sure splitting up Montreal/Boston and Vancouver/Seattle is really the most appealing of options for the league. I don't remotely think that they're considering it, though.

The travel is already brutal. LA to Edmonton is no joke. What makes it worst is the time zone issue. For Americans you get the advantage of more interesting parings i.e. vegas/la/sanfran etc. In Canada your viewership is relatively stable so the big advantage is giving more leafs/habs games across country. Considering their massive market share in Canadian television rights its a win for everyone.

I suppose that'd be one way to guarantee that the drought would be broken though, by essentially mandating that every conference final would have a Canadian team in it (assuming divisional playoffs were kept).

This would not be the case they'd go up against the pacific/western leader.

 

[gstommylee]

They'd go against the western division leader. Just like they do now.

You're essentially swapping nashville/chicago/st louis with toronto/ottawa/montreal.

And you think the rest of the US teams are gonna like that? Nope.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Assuming you get something similar to a Nordiques and GTA2 expansion, would it not make sense to wrap up all the Canadians teams as their own division. If they were technically part of the western conference it'll help a lot of American teams move east. In addition it'd mean making the American tv contract more appealing if there were more in division games. With 18 teams in the east and 9 american and 9 canadian in the west, you'd have way better game times. Again you'd have to assume there is less inter division games but still I wonder about it.

If you're doing this, you're implicitly making an argument for having every division span all four time zones. [Something that I'm a proponent of, but not for the reasons you mention. Also, something that I concede isn't happening for reasons mostly mentioned above.]

Of course, I don't see us getting to 36 any time soon. The "best" chance for this is if Canada got an 8th team via relocation while we're at 32, and ... yeah, we've discussed that topic so much it's the dead squirrel that's been run over by 10,000 vehicles and you can't barely tell there's anything there.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

We should have an all American division.

 

[HugoSimon]

Of course, I don't see us getting to 36 any time soon. The "best" chance for this is if Canada got an 8th team via relocation while we're at 32, and ... yeah, we've discussed that topic so much it's the dead squirrel that's been run over by 10,000 vehicles and you can't barely tell there's anything there.

I'm talking about 2035-2045 no time soon.

If you're doing this, you're implicitly making an argument for having every division span all four time zones. [Something that I'm a proponent of, but not for the reasons you mention. Also, something that I concede isn't happening for reasons mostly mentioned above.]

This will primarily effect Canada and I believe they can handle the hit.

American teams will travel far smaller distances and the widest gap in timezones would be one hour.

The western division will be something like:

Seattle
Portland
San Jose
LA Kings
Anaheim
San Diego
Vegas
Phoenix
Colorado

Central(East)

Minnesota
Dallas
Houston(miami)
Nashville
St Louis
Chicago
Detroit
Columbus
Sabres

Metropolitan(East)

Rangers
Devils
Islands
Flyers
Penguins
Bruins
Tampa
Carolina
Washington

 

[Jumptheshark]

No. Why?

Take a look at a map

 

[tarheelhockey]

The whole point of geographic divisions is to restrict travel.

 

[HugoSimon]

The whole point of geographic divisions is to restrict travel.

If that were the case Anaheim and Edmonton would not be in the same division.

North to South matters just as much in terms of travel.

The bigger issue is the value of TV contracts.

 

[GuelphStormer]

I heard they are looking to change the way time zones work, soon basing them on latitude, rather than longitude. so, this makes perfect sense to me. unfortunately, the wild will have to join canada because minneapolis is further north than toronto, which will be reassigned to the united states. it's complicated.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If that were the case Anaheim and Edmonton would not be in the same division.

You mean like how they weren't in the same division for the majority of their history, until Detroit and Columbus forced their way to the East in order to... restrict travel?

North to South matters just as much in terms of travel.

No, it doesn't. Time zones are MUCH more of an issue than miles traveled.

A Los Angeles-to-Vancouver flight takes 2:55. If you get on the plane at midnight, you get off at 2:55AM.

A Denver-to-Detroit flight takes 2:45. If you get on the plane at midnight, you get off at... 4:55AM. The shorter flight costs you 2 extra hours because you went east-west.

The bigger issue is the value of TV contracts.

To the extent that TV contracts are an issue, they are only harmed by having teams constantly crossing time zones. If you are a TV advertiser in Vancouver, it doesn't help you to place ads on a game that starts at 4pm.

 

[powerstuck]

If that were the case Anaheim and Edmonton would not be in the same division.

North to South matters just as much in terms of travel.

The bigger issue is the value of TV contracts.

Traval matter the most. And it's impossible to make perfect divisions.

If you split North America into 3 zones (west, middle, east) there is more teams in the eastern zone alone than there is in west and middle combined. So you will necessarily have ''weird'' conferences travel wise, but you try to make the best out of it. An all canadian division screws everything up.

 

[GindyDraws]

Montreal to Vancouver is a pain in the ass, even with airplanes. Imagine doing that 4 times a year.

 

[tony d]

Doubt it, travel issues would still exist no matter the amount of teams in the league.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I'm talking about 2035-2045 no time soon.

Let's get to say 2030 and then worry about this. Otherwise, we might as well be talking about things that might happen in 2075, 2100, 2230, etc.

This will primarily effect Canada and I believe they can handle the hit.

American teams will travel far smaller distances and the widest gap in timezones would be one hour.

Why would that necessarily have to be? I'm trying to understand the argument for why 9 owners are going to allow themselves to be packed into a division spanning 4 time zones and have significantly more travel as a result while the other divisions all span 2 at most. (No, "all the teams from Canada will be together like a big happy family" isn't going to cut it.") I'm also trying to understand why Boston would agree to give up on its rivalry with Montreal, Buffalo its rivalry with Toronto, Seattle its likely-by-then rivalry with Vancouver, and so on - because again, "we'll get to be grouped with only other U.S.-based teams" isn't going to cut it. Not to mention, the "far smaller distances" argument won't hold true for some teams. As @tarheelhockey points out, it's not the raw distance that matters - it's the crossing time zones that does.

 

[HugoSimon]

Let's get to say 2030 and then worry about this. Otherwise, we might as well be talking about things that might happen in 2075, 2100, 2230, etc.

Because you say so? 10 years out is not a long period of time when we are talking about constructing new arenas and developing an expansion bid. 15-25 years is very reasonable and modest in my opinion.

Heck you have player contracts that are almost that long.

I'm speculating about the future as does anyone who is interested in business.

Why would that necessarily have to be?

Who says it has to be?

I'm simply asking what would and wouldn't make sense about that type of arrangement. Speculation is about the what ifs. For this to work what would be needed and what wouldn't. The answer you don't want to think about it isn't useful, if so don't post.

I'm trying to understand the argument for why 9 owners are going to allow themselves to be packed into a division spanning 4 time zones and have significantly more travel as a result while the other divisions all span 2 at most.

Bigger tv contract for the US, better revenue sharing for Canadian teams, and a bigger national contract in Canada. You're also forgetting how much hockey can be a political pawn in Canadian politics. Having an entity like the CBC going all out for Hockey isn't unimaginable. And in that case government wants Canadian games on that contract. FYI the CBC is truly struggling for its survival at the moment.

(No, "all the teams from Canada will be together like a big happy family" isn't going to cut it.") I'm also trying to understand why Boston would agree to give up on its rivalry with Montreal, Buffalo its rivalry with Toronto, Seattle its likely-by-then rivalry with Vancouver, and so on - because again,

For boston it is being in a division with New York Phili etc.

"we'll get to be grouped with only other U.S.-based teams" isn't going to cut it. Not to mention, the "far smaller distances" argument won't hold true for some teams. .

The worst affected team is Vancouver and in turn they get a higher number of teams already quite popular in this countries in their arenas. Due to very high migration rates in Canada it makes sense that oil's will have a massive following in Vancouver and vice versa. This is the reason tampa is in the "Atlantic" division after all.

As @tarheelhockey points out, it's not the raw distance that matters - it's the crossing time zones that does.

Yes for American teams absolutely but there are different things at play in Canada. For starters the leafs alone have a massive following coast to coast.

 

[HugoSimon]

Montreal to Vancouver is a pain in the ass, even with airplanes. Imagine doing that 4 times a year.

4 times? If I had the money I would in a heart beat.

The problem with this type of argument is we already have inter conference travel. It is worth it despite the absurd amount of travel due to better ticket sales and television revenue.

What would make this idea work is the potential to have less inter conference travel and more divisional travel.

It isn't unreasonable to suggest it'd be better for Las Vegas if they had more games with Seattle and LA if it meant less games in Winnipeg and Buffalo.

FYI 4 times a year would mean 32 games of away games across Canada and 32 at home. That'd leave 18/9 games for inter-conference travel. For Eastern teams this would be a net win. For Vancouver it'd mean getting all the revenue of having 4 games with the leafs, 4 with Montreal, 4 with Edmonton and 4 with Calgary. Plus 16 games of television rights. In all likelyhood Canadians are becoming more prone to migration so it makes total sense on both television revenue and ticket sales.