Would the Canucks have beaten the Ducks in 2003?

[MS]

With a decent goalie that team should have been able to beat anyone.

With Dan Cloutier, that team probably wasn't beating a superhuman Giguere. Cloutier was comically outplayed by the immortal Roloson against Minnesota.

 

[RandV]

The year after they lost to Calgary in game 7 overtime, Bertuzzzi was suspended for the playoffs and the flames went on to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. If Bertuzzi wasn’t suspended maybe the Canucks would have a banner hanging... horrible luck with the Canucks.

I'd say that was our year for the WCE crew, derailed by Steve Moore taking a run at our captain setting off a domino's effect.

 

[Bougieman]

Cloutier was a frustrating goalie. There were times when he seemed utterly unbeatable -- top 10 in the league. But there were other times -- often in the playoffs, unfortunately -- when a bad goal would get past him and would upset him, and he would simply lose ALL of his focus and his confidence, and just proceed to poop the bed for games on end. That's kids stuff. That can't happen to a professional in the best league in the world.

 

[lawrence]

Cloutier was a frustrating goalie. There were times when he seemed utterly unbeatable -- top 10 in the league. But there were other times -- often in the playoffs, unfortunately -- when a bad goal would get past him and would upset him, and he would simply lose ALL of his focus and his confidence, and just proceed to poop the bed for games on end. That's kids stuff. That can't happen to a professional in the best league in the world.

he was always riding on a hot team. I never saw him as a number 1 goalie at all, after the 2002 playoffs. I also believe if New Jersey can light up in Gigure so can we.

 

[lawrence]

The year after they lost to Calgary in game 7 overtime, Bertuzzzi was suspended for the playoffs and the flames went on to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. If Bertuzzi wasn’t suspended maybe the Canucks would have a banner hanging... horrible luck with the Canucks.

Not saying we could have beaten Calgary, maybe they can, but Bertuzzi in that series would have been a huge difference. pissed off Bertuzzi would be scary especially the way Calgary played the game that season.

 

[RandV]

Not saying we could have beaten Calgary, maybe they can, but Bertuzzi in that series would have been a huge difference. pissed off Bertuzzi would be scary especially the way Calgary played the game that season.

Not just Bertuzzi. When Moore hit Naslund he landed on his wrist and lost his lethal shot. Naslund never really used his wrist shot the rest of that season and into the playoffs, and was never really the same after that - there's a reason he was 7-2-7-9 that playoffs. They were in a bit of decline regardless, especially Bertuzzi, but that season the Sedins were starting to step up as legit 2nd liners and more importantly there would have an optimal route through to the finals had we been able to beat Calgary.

Another huge blow here unrelated to that mess was that Cloutier was actually playing great to start then had a fluke ankle injury and had to be replaced by Auld who just wasn't as good.

 

[RandV]

And I guess for the thread topic no it's unlikely the Canucks or Avs would have beaten the Ducks that year. Kind of a funny thing as that Minnesota team was tailor made to beat one type of opponent - a high octane offensive team, and got both matchups in the West with Colorado in round 1 and Vancouver in round 2. Once they went up against a team that could also play a high quality defensive game but were also, you know, good, they just got slaughtered.

 

[MS]

Cloutier was a frustrating goalie. There were times when he seemed utterly unbeatable -- top 10 in the league. But there were other times -- often in the playoffs, unfortunately -- when a bad goal would get past him and would upset him, and he would simply lose ALL of his focus and his confidence, and just proceed to poop the bed for games on end. That's kids stuff. That can't happen to a professional in the best league in the world.

Not gonna lie, I don't remember these times. And I watched pretty much every game he played as a Canuck.

At his best, he was an average goalie getting dragged to wins by an elite team. At his worst, he was horrific and basically single-handedly blew playoff series in 2002 and 2003.

 

[CherryToke]

With a decent goalie that team should have been able to beat anyone.

With Dan Cloutier, that team probably wasn't beating a superhuman Giguere. Cloutier was comically outplayed by the immortal Roloson against Minnesota.

That Darby Hendrickson goal is ingrained in my head more than anything from 2011. What a freaking nightmare.

 

[MS]

That Darby Hendrickson goal is ingrained in my head more than anything from 2011. What a freaking nightmare.

While most people focus on games 5-7 in that series, the one that haunts me is Game 2.

Game 2 against Minnesota was the single best game I ever saw the WCE-era Canucks play. We outshot them something like 35-18, outchanced them by like 18-4, played the most physical game I'd ever seen that team play and basically ran them out of the rink ... and lost 3-2 in a game where the ice was tilted from start to finish.

There wasn't a goal as bad as the Hendrickson goal but Cloutier simply couldn't make a save to keep the team ahead. There were only a couple good chances all night and they all went in.

If we win that game, the Minnesota series is theoretically a sweep.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Darby Hendrickson.

Wes Walz.

They terrorized us all series.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

honestly my single most memorable memory from that series is the broadcaster—i want to say shorthouse?—say something to the effect of, "obviously the sedins can't skate like gaborik and they can't shoot like him. but let's not overreact, they won't be offensively elite like gaborik but they'll be pretty good players too."

it only took seven more years for that comparison to become ridiculous.

 

[MS]

honestly my single most memorable memory from that series is the broadcaster—i want to say shorthouse?—say something to the effect of, "obviously the sedins can't skate like gaborik and they can't shoot like him. but let's not overreact, they won't be offensively elite like gaborik but they'll be pretty good players too."

it only took seven more years for that comparison to become ridiculous.

Hughson would have been the pbp guy for that series. I can’t remember if Craig Simpson was working with him yet or if it would have been a Greg Millen type.

 

[Jyrki21]

Another huge blow here unrelated to that mess was that Cloutier was actually playing great to start then had a fluke ankle injury and had to be replaced by Auld who just wasn't as good.

Part of that was Crawford's refusal to play Hedberg, though, who had been an adequate backup all season long. Auld – who I always liked – had nevertheless only made 6 appearances that season (albeit with some very nice stats) and there wasn't really reason to throw him in there.

 

[lawrence]

some rink side fans were able to notice Trent Klatt's eye roll when Cloutier allowed the Hendrickson goal which was another stoppable goal.

the final 3 games of that series Canucks had a grand total of 7 power plays while Minnesota had 12 including 0 in game 7 for us.

 

[EpochLink]

some rink side fans were able to notice Trent Klatt's eye roll when Cloutier allowed the Hendrickson goal which was another stoppable goal.

the final 3 games of that series Canucks had a grand total of 7 power plays while Minnesota had 12 including 0 in game 7 for us.

And that off season Klatt went to Los Angeles...

 

[DL44]

Simple question. Had the Canucks not blown that 3-1 round 2 series lead against the Wild, the same Wild that got swept by the Ducks in the next round, do you think they would have solved JS Giguere?

Personally, I say no.

There was a reason people used to say you might as well rename the game during the playoffs to 'Goalie' during that era...

JSG was just too good that yr.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

And that off season Klatt went to Los Angeles...

and then retired right before cloutier was traded there

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Not gonna lie, I don't remember these times. And I watched pretty much every game he played as a Canuck.

At his best, he was an average goalie getting dragged to wins by an elite team. At his worst, he was horrific and basically single-handedly blew playoff series in 2002 and 2003.

there was one run toward in the fall of 2002 where he was magnificent. i swear he was my early season favourite for MVP.

looking it up now, from nov 2 to dec 4, he went 12-2-0 with a 2.12 GAA and .923 SV%. iirc he was named NHL player of the month for that november.

but that's the only time i ever thought clouts looked elite.

 

[MS]

there was one run toward in the fall of 2002 where he was magnificent. i swear he was my early season favourite for MVP.

looking it up now, from nov 2 to dec 4, he went 12-2-0 with a 2.12 GAA and .923 SV%. iirc he was named NHL player of the month for that november.

but that's the only time i ever thought clouts looked elite.

Honestly, in the DPE a .924 save % is barely more than solid behind an elite team like that team was. I remember that period and it probably was his high point, but he was still being carried by the team around him.

The rest of the year, his save % was .895. And then .868 in the playoffs. The guy sucked balls.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Honestly, in the DPE a .924 save % is barely more than solid behind an elite team like that team was. I remember that period and it probably was his high point, but he was still being carried by the team around him.

The rest of the year, his save % was .895. And then .868 in the playoffs. The guy sucked balls.

he sure did

but i remember that being the one stretch where he didn't need his team to outscore his deficiencies, like he was legitimately good enough to win games on his own. naslund and bertuzzi scored lots of goals anyway, of course, but the team would have won even if they hadn't.

i don't think cloutier was being carried, per se. not offensively, because he was stopping the pucks, and not defensively because it's not like that marc crawford team could defend worth a lick.

but that was only five weeks out of a four and a half year stint here.

all that said, you and i disagree majorly about how good that '03 canucks team was, with or without cloutier.

 

[MS]

he sure did

but i remember that being the one stretch where he didn't need his team to outscore his deficiencies, like he was legitimately good enough to win games on his own. naslund and bertuzzi scored lots of goals anyway, of course, but the team would have won even if they hadn't.

i don't think cloutier was being carried, per se. not offensively, because he was stopping the pucks, and not defensively because it's not like that marc crawford team could defend worth a lick.

but that was only five weeks out of a four and a half year stint here.

all that said, you and i disagree majorly about how good that '03 canucks team was, with or without cloutier.

In the stretch you're referring to, the team scored 53 goals in those 15 games. That works out to a 290-goal full-season pace. By point of comparison, Detroit led the league with 269 goals that year.

Cloutier was good in that stretch, but the team was absolutely pouring in goals for him.

Strongly disagree that that team 'couldn't defend a lick'. They were 10th in the NHL in GA despite having a goalie who couldn't stop a beachball. With a decent goalie, that team is probably in the top 5 or 6 in the NHL.

 

[Jyrki21]

there was one run toward in the fall of 2002 where he was magnificent. i swear he was my early season favourite for MVP.

looking it up now, from nov 2 to dec 4, he went 12-2-0 with a 2.12 GAA and .923 SV%. iirc he was named NHL player of the month for that november.

but that's the only time i ever thought clouts looked elite.

Yeah, this jives with my memory of that time period too. At the time it was a big relief because there were already so many question marks about him getting thrown into the starter's role with a short and unimpressive track record in Tampa, and then he melted down in the 2002 playoffs and we rightly wondered if he'd be an NHL-quality starter. That stretch made it honestly seem for a while that Burke's bet was actually turning out pretty well (and on a separate note it coincided with the Schaefer-Salo trade, so he was looking pretty damn good at this stage), and people were realistically talking about the possibility of a Vancouver-Ottawa final, which just sounds hilariously awesome in 2019. Cloutier cooled off but looked passable the rest of the year, and seemed more or less fine in the first round against St. Louis (which was another big relief at the time). But yeah, then the Minnesota series happened.