Would Tampa still be 1st without Kucherov?

[CupsOverCash]

I didn't say Kuch doesn't deserve the Hart.

i said the Hart doesn't go to the most valuable player if it did Mcdavid would own it

I still disagree Kucherov is the MVP of the NHL in 2018-2019 NHL season. Unless he completely craps the bed finishing the season.

 

[Bank Shot]

I don't agree. Tampa is a very strong team regardless if Kucherov is in it or not. He might be the best player in the NHL, but if say Kane drags the Blackhawks into the playoffs in a much much weaker team he has been more important to the success of that team. I would argue that he in that case is more important to the Hawks than Kucherov is to Tampa.

And I'm saying that awarding the trophy based on "Importance to the team" is a ridiculous rabbit hole to crawl into and team strength should be completely ignored.

MVP=Best Player.

 

[BlueBaron]

Kucherov is by far the most valuable player on by far the most valuable team in the league. Whether we would still be in 1st or not is irrelevant. Some real backwards logic to rationalize that a players individual accomplishments should be diminished because of his teams accomplishments.

I think Rangers followed by the Leafs make the top 2 most valuable teams.

Most people are saying the team is built around him. Not a lot of attacks going on here.

For the record I think they would be in first but not by much without him.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Like if you just plucked Kucherov out of the lineup, and replaced him with the 13th best forward in the TB organization? No, they would likely not be 1st. Not by 15 points anyway. Put another non-Kucherov level winger on the team in his place? I'm sure they would be in the discussion because of the depth. Put Kane there instead of Kucherov? They're probably still running away with things.

 

[Rschmitz]

I think Rangers followed by the Leafs make the top 2 most valuable teams.

Most people are saying the team is built around him. Not a lot of attacks going on here.

For the record I think they would be in first but not by much without him.

I was speaking of player value, not financial value

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Don't really care but He's the MVP.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Like if you just plucked Kucherov out of the lineup, and replaced him with the 13th best forward in the TB organization? No, they would likely not be 1st. Not by 15 points anyway. Put another non-Kucherov level winger on the team in his place? I'm sure they would be in the discussion because of the depth. Put Kane there instead of Kucherov? They're probably still running away with things.

Thats why I think you cant really judge it by a per team basis. If you swapped Kuch with Kane you probably see the same results they are having. If you swapped Kuch with last years Taylor Hall the Devils are probably still a playoff team but still a first round exit team. Kuch is the MVP of the league and is proving it night in and out. Kane is an excellent player too but I give the nod to Kucherov.

 

[daver]

I didn't say Kuch doesn't deserve the Hart.

i said the Hart doesn't go to the most valuable player if it did Mcdavid would own it

Why not Kane?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Thats why I think you cant really judge it by a per team basis. If you swapped Kuch with Kane you probably see the same results they are having. If you swapped Kuch with last years Taylor Hall the Devils are probably still a playoff team but still a first round exit team. Kuch is the MVP of the league and is proving it night in and out. Kane is an excellent player too but I give the nod to Kucherov.

Yeah, what makes an MVP is an endless sports debate. Throw all the viable names in a hat, pick one, and whoever it is can be rationalized as the correct choice. Best player on the best team, best player period, best player on a low seeded playoff team, etc. Then there's the whole Hart vs. Lindsay issue.

If Kucherov gets it, he'll have earned it, so it's all good.

 

[The Macho King]

Yeah, what makes an MVP is an endless sports debate. Throw all the viable names in a hat, pick one, and whoever it is can be rationalized as the correct choice. Best player on the best team, best player period, best player on a low seeded playoff team, etc. Then there's the whole Hart vs. Lindsay issue.

If Kucherov gets it, he'll have earned it, so it's all good.

There's no Hart v. Lindsay issue. They're voted on by different people.

 

[KingsFan7824]

There's no Hart v. Lindsay issue. They're voted on by different people.

I mean in terms of which award people find more significant. I believe that came up a lot last year when those trophies went to two different people. Which goes back to the debate on what makes an MVP.

 

[PromisedLand]

whoever in the bolts organization pushed to get Kuch in the 2nd round should be getting a very large performance bonus

ohh and the answer to your question OP is not just no; its a oh hell no

 

[Bank Shot]

I mean in terms of which award people find more significant. I believe that came up a lot last year when those trophies went to two different people. Which goes back to the debate on what makes an MVP.

There is no debate in any sport except hockey.

 

[The Macho King]

There is no debate in any sport except hockey.

The Hart is one of the weirdest awards. Before the Norris, Dmen won it fairly often (and often placed highly). Since the Norris was introduced, only two Dmen have won it (Orr x3 and Pronger). Goalies don't win much often either, but more often than D (they didn't have a voted on award until the 83 season).

One of the weirdest wins is Al Rollins winning in 54 as a goalie for the Blackhawks. He allowed the most goals in the league that season, the Blackhawks were the worst team in the league with only 12 wins (5th place was the Rangers with 29), and Howe won the Art Ross by 14 points. It has to be the weirdest Hart win in history.

 

[McShogun99]

I think they'd still be first or at worst a top 5 team. They wouldn't be running away with it like they are now.

 

[wetcoast]

Yea. The gap is that massive.

I agree and I also think that the TB forwards all have a little more to give as a group with th increased icetime without Kucherov, they have incredible depth up front.

 

[Alwalys]

not many top teams would be where they are without their top player. maybe only the Sharks (and that's not really a compliment).

 

[Jugitsu]

I'm so tired of the Hart not going to the obviously best player of the season because people toy around with the word "value".

He's performed the best of all players in the NHL this season, therefore he should win the Hart. Doesn't matter if the rest of his team is great or garbage.

That's because Hart is not the best player award.

 

[Jugitsu]

I'll never understand the logic that a player's value depends on how bad their team is.

That's why the Hart trophy is a joke. It's literally a trophy for elite and one of the best players stuck in a bad or mediocre team nowadays.

Kucherov will win all the important awards. Whether he wins Hart or not, says nothing about him as a player.

 

[Chimpradamus]

That's why the Hart trophy is a joke. It's literally a trophy for elite and one of the best players stuck in a bad or mediocre team nowadays.

Kucherov will win all the important awards. Whether he wins Hart or not, says nothing about him as a player.

By its definition, it's not a joke. It's obviously easier to be the most important player for a team, if you're elite and carries them more than anybody else. Hence the term MVP. If your team doesn't miss a beat if you're out of the lineup, you're not the MVP.

 

[Jugitsu]

By its definition, it's not a joke. It's obviously easier to be the most important player for a team, if you're elite and carries them more than anybody else. Hence the term MVP. If your team doesn't miss a beat if you're out of the lineup, you're not the MVP.

It's a joke compared to the other big sports and unfortunately many people count Hart above all other individual trophies in the NHL.

 

[DFC]

They probably would be. That has no bearing on whether or not he wins the Hart, IMO. We seem to have defined "valuable" to mean, "Guy who gets a team to the playoffs that otherwise wouldn't make it," or, "Guy who's way better than the rest of his team." I think those definitions are faulty, and the NHL's most prestigious individual award shouldn't be handicapped to fringe playoff teams.

Kucherov's value to Tampa Bay is massive, even if they'd still be a very good team without him. They're a team full of great/elite players, and Kucherov is clearly and easily the best of them.