Speculation: Would Signing John tavares be a mistake?

[jkutswings]

If Detroit already had 1-2 other big pieces in place, and were clearly on the way back up, then sure. But I don't know why he'd want to come here, and by the time everybody is drafted and up to speed around him, he's near the end of his useful years, and the boost of him being here has diminished the draft stock to put really good players around him, so I think they'd top out at a second round kind of team.

Keep your head down, bite the bullet another 2-3 years, and keep drafting (hopefully very good players).

In general, free agency is a great way to put the cherry on top, but a horrible way to scoop the ice cream.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

No, it would not be a mistake, unless he signed for an absolute max deal. If he signs for ~10M (what we would have given to Stamkos), I take that all day, every day. You kill yourself to get elite talent. I don't care how you do. If you get an elite 1C, Larkin looks pretty damn good as a 2C. Broken down Zetterberg starts feasting using his crafty veteran mind on third line opponents.

It is only a mistake if they make mistakes in the moves surrounding it. Signing an elite player for a market value contract is not a mistake.

 

[FMichael]

It would be a mistake. Before offering any long term contract to anyone, the Wings should be asking themselves, "Will this player still be worth it 5-7 years from now." Cause that's when we can expect the Wings to finish their rebuild.

Are we the Edmonton Oilers?

By no means am I a Holland groupie, but I do feel he's a poop-ton better than 60% plus of the rival GMs out there, and he's run a pretty stable ship over the years.

Tavares on the Red Wings = Tavares on nobody else's roster = a leg up for the Red Wings.

If Detroit already had 1-2 other big pieces in place, and were clearly on the way back up, then sure. But I don't know why he'd want to come here, and by the time everybody is drafted and up to speed around him, he's near the end of his useful years, and the boost of him being here has diminished the draft stock to put really good players around him, so I think they'd top out at a second round kind of team.

Keep your head down, bite the bullet another 2-3 years, and keep drafting (hopefully very good players).

In general, free agency is a great way to put the cherry on top, but a horrible way to scoop the ice cream.

Tavares isn't some Milan Lucic d-bag who's gonna bite hairy weiners by the time he's 29 yrs old...This guy will be a legit high-end center for the next 4 to 6 yrs, and will make his teammates better as well.

He comes across as a 'quality' guy, typical Canadian, strong, silent, confident, and devoted...Granted - there'll be a good chance he'll re-sign with the Isles, but the way that they do business, and all their baggage - who'd want to stay there?

If Tavares re-signs with the NYI - he needs to be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize or sumthin cause staying there is simply an act of futility.

 

[kliq]

It would be a mistake. Before offering any long term contract to anyone, the Wings should be asking themselves, "Will this player still be worth it 5-7 years from now." Cause that's when we can expect the Wings to finish their rebuild.

I think this answer is easy.....yes. The kid is 27 years old. I'm not worried about an elite world class talent not being good when he is 32. Think about it like this, he's 1 year older then Mrazek who everyone was calling a young kid a couple weeks ago.

Take off your cynical "wings suck" hat for a moment and think about it objectively. Adding JT gives us one of the best 1-2-3 C in the league, that area is fixed. With good C's our wings will improve (imagine having Z on our third line) add in a good coach and I don't think we have to worry about that area anymore.

We do still have the D to take care of, but with what we have in the system, and what we could be drafting in the spring, I think 5-7 years to build it back up is a bit much.

 

[kliq]

If Detroit already had 1-2 other big pieces in place, and were clearly on the way back up, then sure. But I don't know why he'd want to come here, and by the time everybody is drafted and up to speed around him, he's near the end of his useful years, and the boost of him being here has diminished the draft stock to put really good players around him, so I think they'd top out at a second round kind of team.

Keep your head down, bite the bullet another 2-3 years, and keep drafting (hopefully very good players).

In general, free agency is a great way to put the cherry on top, but a horrible way to scoop the ice cream.

If you are signing mediocre guys to overpriced contracts (see Nielsen), 100% see your point. If you are signing elite players, different story.

 

[FMichael]

If you are signing mediocre guys to overpriced contracts (see Nielsen), 100% see your point. If you are signing elite players, different story.

Truth be told I'm hoping Nielsen was signed just to persuade Tavares to bail on the Isles, and come here...That would be like 'Dr. Evil' like genius on behalf of Holland.

 

[Shaman464]

The only way Detroit gets JT is if they LTretire Kronwall, trade Frans, then when the lottery get Ras and sign Karlsson.

 

[kliq]

The only way Detroit gets JT is if they LTretire Kronwall, trade Frans, then when the lottery get Ras and sign Karlsson.

They need to sign Karlsson in 2019 to get JT in 2018?

 

[FMichael]

The only way Detroit gets JT is if they LTretire Kronwall, trade Frans, then when the lottery get Ras and sign Karlsson.

How so?

Please forgive my ignorance on the salary cap, and recent trades, etc...

Moving Tatar, Mrazek, and having Green's salary off the books at the end of this season will free up a poop-ton of cap space.

The only 'issue' will be Larkin, Mantha, and AA - and since they're RFA's - and again - forgive my ignorance - will any of them be able to file arbitration - their contracts will be 'limited'.

 

[njx9]

If you can get a high end D prospect, that you think is a top pair player, then yeah, I think it's a no brainer to sign Tavares, if for some bizarre reason he wants to come here. If you don't think your draft pick in June is a top pairing player (or you take Svechnikov or the other winger), then you can sign JT, but it won't ever amount to anything, because the team still won't have a defense.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I think this answer is easy.....yes. The kid is 27 years old. I'm not worried about an elite world class talent not being good when he is 32. Think about it like this, he's 1 year older then Mrazek who everyone was calling a young kid a couple weeks ago.

Take off your cynical "wings suck" hat for a moment and think about it objectively. Adding JT gives us one of the best 1-2-3 C in the league, that area is fixed. With good C's our wings will improve (imagine having Z on our third line) add in a good coach and I don't think we have to worry about that area anymore.

We do still have the D to take care of, but with what we have in the system, and what we could be drafting in the spring, I think 5-7 years to build it back up is a bit much.

How am I being cynical? Let's assume the Wings do get Tavares. Then how do you plan to address the Wings dumpster fire of a blue line with a much higher draft pick due to Tavares improving the roster? You can't realistically fix that with 15-20 overall picks in a timely manner. All you have to look at is the Wings draft history for defenseman to see how unlikely it is that the Wings end up drafting an entirely new blue line that is actually competent over the next five years.

Then you throw in Z LTIRetiring at the end of next season when his salary drops to one million a year.

Last but most certainly not least, then you look at just how much money the Wings have tied up in long term contracts for 30+ players and you see how difficult it would be to potentially overhaul this roster to make adding Tavares worth the worse draft position the Wings would be in. With or without Tavares, the Wings will have one of the most expensive rosters in the league next season.

The Wings cannot escape their fate. That ship sailed about five years ago.

 

[Redder Winger]

What contender can afford him?

Chicago. Somehow, Chicago has plenty of room for Tavares.

 

[Redder Winger]

That's why this draft lottery next month is the most important draft lottery of for us since the 80's. We land Dahlin, I really do think that is the first major domino to fall in our resurgence.

I don't think we get him, but I will be glued to my TV when they announce it.

Landing Dahlin will give the Wings some mojo. Something they've lacked for awhile.
Something that says the Red Wings's aren't yesterday's news.

But realistically, we're banking on a lottery.

 

[Redder Winger]

Agreed.

This is gonna be 1 of the most interesting spring/summers in years concerning the NHL.

Tavares - a legit All-Star calibre center is certainly gonna entertain offers from rival clubs...A draft that not only boasts a wealth of talent, but it's #1 prospect is in the likes of a Lidstrom/Karlsson mold...And speaking of Karlsson - we all know he'll be on the market since Melnyk wants to summon the spirits of 'Dollar' Bill Wirtz.

What really makes me salivate most - is the thought of winning the lottery, and making a trade for Karlsson...Nuthin against Tavares, but is there anyone elese other than me that wouldn't love the dynamic Swedes on our blueline?

But signing Tavares would be nothing less than awesome...He'd instantly makes our craptacular wingers better.

I don't care if it's Swedes, Russians, Canadians, Americans or Austrailians.
The whole idea of Swedes because of Swedes is actually a bad idea, IMO. Yes to talented hockey players. No to Swedish mafia.

 

[Shaman464]

How so?

Please forgive my ignorance on the salary cap, and recent trades, etc...

Moving Tatar, Mrazek, and having Green's salary off the books at the end of this season will free up a poop-ton of cap space.

The only 'issue' will be Larkin, Mantha, and AA - and since they're RFA's - and again - forgive my ignorance - will any of them be able to file arbitration - their contracts will be 'limited'.

Mantha and Larkin will likely get bridge contracts, Larkin I could see ~4-5 million for 5 years. Mantha probably about ~3-4. AA will likely get ~2-2.5.

Lets go low end, that's close to 10 million being added in retaining them, or literally exactly what they freed up with recent trades. They also get the money from Green, that leaves ~7 million in space. To land JT a number would, if the team goes into next season as is, would need to be on the high end of what he could get. I would put JT's range at between 7 (Long term deal with the Isles) to as much as 10 (long term deal with a bad team, IE Detroit). In order to entice him here and get less than a rake you over the coal deal, they would need to show commitment to not sucking. Trading FN and forcing NK to LTIR would free up 10 million dollars giving Detroit 17 million total to sign Karlsson and JT. Sign Karlson at 9-10 a year and use the rest to sign JT.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Chicago. Somehow, Chicago has plenty of room for Tavares.

No I asked what CONTENDER can afford him.

 

[Shaman464]

No I asked what CONTENDER can afford him.

Discounting Chicago now would be like discounting Detroit 15 years ago. They still have a lot of good pieces and with shrewd moves their window isn't closed. With JT they would have the depth down the middle to be a legit contender.

 

[Redder Winger]

No I asked what CONTENDER can afford him.

Chicago with Tavares and a healthy Crawford is a contender.

 

[Fear]

What contender can afford him?

The Blues seem like a perfect fit, they just dumped Stastny's contract which cleared both the cap and roster space. They have looked bad recently but Tavares with Tarasenko, Schwartz, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Schenn, etc. looks like a contender.

 

[Redder Winger]

The Blues seem like a perfect fit, they just dumped Stastny's contract which cleared both the cap and roster space. They have looked bad recently but Tavares with Tarasenko, Schwartz, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Schenn, etc. looks like a contender.

Tavares is exactly what they've been looking for.

But if I'm Tavares, what gets me to sign with St. Louis?

 

[jkutswings]

How am I being cynical? Let's assume the Wings do get Tavares. Then how do you plan to address the Wings dumpster fire of a blue line with a much higher draft pick due to Tavares improving the roster? You can't realistically fix that with 15-20 overall picks in a timely manner. All you have to look at is the Wings draft history for defenseman to see how unlikely it is that the Wings end up drafting an entirely new blue line that is actually competent over the next five years.

Then you throw in Z LTIRetiring at the end of next season when his salary drops to one million a year.

Last but most certainly not least, then you look at just how much money the Wings have tied up in long term contracts for 30+ players and you see how difficult it would be to potentially overhaul this roster to make adding Tavares worth the worse draft position the Wings would be in. With or without Tavares, the Wings will have one of the most expensive rosters in the league next season.

The Wings cannot escape their fate. That ship sailed about five years ago.

Essentially, if Detroit signs Tavares, without a major upgrade to their defense... They become the Islanders.

And to get him here in the first place, it would probably take something ridiculous, like $13-14M AAV.

 

[Redder Winger]

Essentially, if Detroit signs Tavares, without a major upgrade to their defense... They become the Islanders.

And to get him here in the first place, it would probably take something ridiculous, like $13-14M AAV.

If Kenny is the GM, I think he's just fine being the Islanders.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

Can't afford Tavares and doesn't make much sense to me. Build from within with their prospects and when they're ready to compete go make a splash in FA. Not now, Mantha and Larkin are due big deals in the summer.

 

[SoupNazi]

If I'm Tavares, I don't sign with the Wings, frankly. We're too far off from being a serious contender.

 

[kliq]

How am I being cynical? Let's assume the Wings do get Tavares. Then how do you plan to address the Wings dumpster fire of a blue line with a much higher draft pick due to Tavares improving the roster? You can't realistically fix that with 15-20 overall picks in a timely manner. All you have to look at is the Wings draft history for defenseman to see how unlikely it is that the Wings end up drafting an entirely new blue line that is actually competent over the next five years.

Then you throw in Z LTIRetiring at the end of next season when his salary drops to one million a year.

Last but most certainly not least, then you look at just how much money the Wings have tied up in long term contracts for 30+ players and you see how difficult it would be to potentially overhaul this roster to make adding Tavares worth the worse draft position the Wings would be in. With or without Tavares, the Wings will have one of the most expensive rosters in the league next season.

The Wings cannot escape their fate. That ship sailed about five years ago.

I think your last bold answers the question of your first bold, your take on the Wings is over the top.

If the Wings sign JT, they are set on forward for years, so then the focus shifts to D. In a perfect world we draft Dahlin, now I know that will not likely happen, but this question is hypothetical. IMO for us to get JT to begin with, the first step is landing Dahlin. If that happened and we go into next season with Daley, E, DD, Dahlin, Hronek, and fingers crossed Chowolski as our top 6, I dont think that is a dumpster fire. It's not great, but I didnt say we are winning the cup next year.