Would Portland Oregon be a good place for an NHL team?

[Ogopogo*]

logic like this makes no sense to me.

.

In some places, hockey already is the craze without an NHL team. Why should the league go to places where they have to give away tickets and market their butts off to hope that people will start to like the game before they lose too much money? Just go to cities that want it and will buy tickets at full price from day one.

Could Seattle work? Yeah maybe, but it would take some deep-pocketed owner a lot of years and many millions in losses lost to find out.

The Sounders play 15 home games per year - not 41 and the tickets are cheaper than they would need to be for the NHL. Soccer is also more widely followed/accepted/enjoyed in the USA than is hockey. In short, the MLS has a much better shot at being successful in Seattle than does NHL hockey.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Just curious but could Indianapolis support a team?

Probably not. Indy's a Colts (so long as Manning's there) and college hoops town, everything else is secondary (including the Pacers).

Two major professional sports teams is probably the most they can handle. They're pretty much perfect for minor league baseball, and as a result their AAA Indians have a good following, and I think that they could easily upgrade from the USHL to the ECHL or AHL for hockey, but a step beyond that? I don't think so.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Yup.

MIT, Harvard, BC, BU, Brandeis, Tufts, Amherst, Wellesley, Smith, Holy Cross, Northeastern, UMass - safety schools all.

When I went to school in the area many years ago, it was reported to have the third highest concentration of university students in the world - behind only Moscow and London - although I would guess that several cities in China have past all of them by now.

Exactly. Look at the area you went and now let's look at the top sports mills(they party zones not school)

Michigan State
Ohio State
LSU
UW
Mississippi
Oregon
Oregon State
USC(biggest joke of them all)
Florida State
Florida
Texas

None of these school are hard to get into at all. Some only need a 60 or 65 in Grade 12 English. Very sad

 

[Badger36]

Folks in Seattle would kill to get another NBA team there but, really hockey isn't more than a little tiny blip on the radar.

Which makes no sense because Seattle is a huge skating city. Lots of olympic figure skaters and speed skaters live in Seattle or do their training in Seattle.
I think the biggest problem with moving a team to Oregon or Washington state would be finding a rich owner who would want to move them there.

 

[Badger36]

In some places, hockey already is the craze without an NHL team.

Exactly. Take Wisconsin for example. We have just as much passion for Badger hockey as does any NHL city.

 

[Badger36]

Nope, doubt it.

OT, but I will never understand America's love affair with college football and basketball for the life of me. That is, most of America, because here in Boston I don't know of many people who give a rat's rear about it. Strange since there's so many colleges here but I'm not complaining.

Maybe you need to spend some time outside of Boston and go to places where college football and basketball is popular.
College football and basketball have a lot more passion and pageantry that do the pros.
I honestly dont get how people like soccer or the NBA, but Im not about to insinuate that either sport sucks.

 

[John Price]

Exactly. Look at the area you went and now let's look at the top sports mills(they party zones not school)

Michigan State
Ohio State
LSU
UW
Mississippi
Oregon
Oregon State
USC(biggest joke of them all)
Florida State
Florida
Texas

None of these school are hard to get into at all. Some only need a 60 or 65 in Grade 12 English. Very sad

They're all good schools to get a degree from, though. Florida and Texas are amongst some of the best schools in the country. UT Austin is a pretty damn good education school. Big 10 is also strong academically.

OT, but I will never understand America's love affair with college football and basketball for the life of me. That is, most of America, because here in Boston I don't know of many people who give a rat's rear about it. Strange since there's so many colleges here but I'm not complaining.

Well, when you see that the only program that is significant there is Boston College, and Boston College's significance in college sports can be seriously questioned (BC's football and basketball programs are pretty mediocre) then no wonder you don't align with the rest of America's captivation with those collegiate sports.

NE isn't really a big college sports bed anyway, in terms of football and basketball. More of a hockey fan zone. Rest of the country loves college football and basketball.

 

[Retail1LO*]

Exactly. Take Wisconsin for example. We have just as much passion for Badger hockey as does any NHL city.

Wisconsin is such an interesting sports state in general. It supports every pro sport except hockey, currently. Milwaukee has two team, and Green Bay has one. I think the state could support hockey, but who knows. There's CERTAINLY a lot of support for Badger hockey in that state. I'd like to imagine it'd translate to the pro game as well.

 

[Mr. T]

Soccer is also more widely followed/accepted/enjoyed in the USA than is hockey. In short, the MLS has a much better shot at being successful in Seattle than does NHL hockey.

That's debatable regarding soccer versus hockey. Both are still largely region-dependent niche sports. Americans definitely play more soccer than hockey, but that's primarily based on cost and availability of competitive play.

Portland and Seattle are doing so well with MLS because soccer is very popular in the region. Also, the newness of the teams (at least in their MLS form) has a lot of folks feeling like they're a part of something from the beginning. I see people sporting Timbers gear all over the place this season. Definitely more so than any other year while they were still a USL team.

Soccer comparisons aside, I think the NHL could work in PDX for a number of reasons.

Professional teams will always have more popularity than minor league teams due to the quality of product as well as the civic prestige that accompanies a pro team. Not to mention that all of the games will be televised (which is another way to generate enthusiasm/fans). Just the fact that it's a professional team and not a junior/minor league team can make hockey work in Portland. The city is growing at a very rapid pace and there are a lot of transplants from the east coast and the mid-west that are hockey fans.

My biggest concern for an argument against the NHL in Portland would be a lack of corporate sponsorship. Fan support and competition with the Blazers aren't as big of concerns as some folks make them out to be.

 

[wombat]

Soccer is also more widely followed/accepted/enjoyed in the USA than is hockey.

That's not even close to being true.

Michigan State
Ohio State
LSU
UW
Mississippi
Oregon
Oregon State
USC (biggest joke of them all)
Florida State
Florida
Texas

None of these school are hard to get into at all

Wow what world do you live in? Look up the academic rankings of those schools in bold. Wisconsin is ranked the 17th best university in the US for instance.

 

[Tawnos]

In some places, hockey already is the craze without an NHL team. Why should the league go to places where they have to give away tickets and market their butts off to hope that people will start to like the game before they lose too much money? Just go to cities that want it and will buy tickets at full price from day one.

Could Seattle work? Yeah maybe, but it would take some deep-pocketed owner a lot of years and many millions in losses lost to find out.

The Sounders play 15 home games per year - not 41 and the tickets are cheaper than they would need to be for the NHL. Soccer is also more widely followed/accepted/enjoyed in the USA than is hockey. In short, the MLS has a much better shot at being successful in Seattle than does NHL hockey.

K, first of all... soccer isn't even close to being "more widely followed" in the US than hockey is. Maybe in certain markets, but on the whole... not at all.

Secondly, why would the NHL want to go places where hockey isn't yet huge? It's called growing the game. The NHL isn't going to dent it's revenue stream outside of ticket sales by an enormous amount in going to a place like Hamilton. i.e. people in Hamilton already spend some money on NHL merch. If you want to have the largest long-term impact, you go where the fans already aren't.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The Pacific Northwest needs an American team, badly, and Portland is, by far, the best option. I'm of the belief a team would be a huge success there. Seattle I see as far more of a question mark.


As for soccer being more popular than hockey...what? More kids play it because it's far cheaper and more readily available...but other than that it's a far bigger niche sport in this country than hockey is and is really that popular in the Pacific Northwest. The older MLS ranks well below the NHL in every single city that there's an overlap.

 

[The CyNick]

What would interesting to see is a breakdown of the nationally covered games (VS and NBC) and see how specific markets do in terms of watching games. Throw out the markets with teams already, and then of the remaining markets see which ones perform the best on a per capita basis. Then determine if the market is big enough to support a pro team (ie some small town might have the largest viewership per capita, but clearly cant support a team).

 

[GKJ]

I have spent a fair amount of time in Seattle in my life and, the NHL would not be a success there. Great city, great sports city but, not a hockey city. Folks in Seattle would kill to get another NBA team there but, really hockey isn't more than a little tiny blip on the radar.

Hockey was nowhere in Nashville until it was.

Seattle and Portland both have junior teams, while not the NHL, or even pro, it is not a foreign concept.

You need a building, an owner, a good marketing strategy, and a good organization. Just like any other business.

 

[IceAce]

Soccer is also more widely followed/accepted/enjoyed in the USA than is hockey.

I call shenanigans on this. Show me one TV ratings metric that indicates that.

 

[IceAce]

Exactly. Look at the area you went and now let's look at the top sports mills(they party zones not school)

Michigan State
Ohio State
LSU
UW
Mississippi
Oregon
Oregon State
USC(biggest joke of them all)
Florida State
Florida
Texas

None of these school are hard to get into at all. Some only need a 60 or 65 in Grade 12 English. Very sad

Uh you really need to preface what you're going to the school for before you question the admission standards. USC is certainly no joke for admissions and is pretty difficult to get into especially if you want to attend their film school which is tops in the Nation. So I'm not sure what you're basing this on? Athletes only? Then that's a scholarship issue not an admission issue.

Also keep in mind the sheer size of some of the colleges your listing. Of course it's going to be be easier to get into a school when the average incoming class size is 14,000 students like Ohio State versus a small prestigious school like MIT where there incoming class is like 1,500.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

I think the state could support hockey, but who knows. There's CERTAINLY a lot of support for Badger hockey in that state. I'd like to imagine it'd translate to the pro game as well.

It would be very difficult to support an NHL team in addition to the Brewers, Bucks and to a lesser extent Packers.

1. The only arenas that would work for an NHL team would be the Bradley Center in Milwaukee which would have to be shared with the Bucks and Marquette Men's basketball or the Kohl Center in Madison which would have to be shared with Wisconsin Men's and Women's basketball and Men's hockey. And Madison is pretty small and more of a college town. Doesn't mean people would just ignore the team but generally they're going to support the Badgers first and everything else second.

2. The size of Milwaukee. The metro area has about 1.75 million people although there are some good sized cities around an hour away that aren't part of the metro area. Kenosha is a little less than an hour away and has almost 100,000 people. Fond du Lac and Sheboygan are also about an hour away and combine for a population of 100,000. And of course not the main population base but you would also likely draw from Madison and the Fox Cities area though that wouldn't be guaranteed especially in winter and on weeknights.

I think the NHL could do well if the Bucks leave. The Senator who owns the Bucks decided not to run for another term and there has been increased talk of trying to build a new arena for the Bucks lately that has gone nowhere, especially when they float the idea of using public money. Just a few days ago the head of the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce suggested extending the Miller Park sales tax (0.1% collected in Milwaukee, Waukesha, Racine, Washington and Ozaukee counties) which was shot down by both the governor and Milwaukee County executive, so there's not much support for that.

I also have no idea how the NHL or Bettman would feel about playing at the Bradley Center. There's no way that public money is going to be used on a new arena right now and no potential owner is going to spend $150-200 million to bring a team here and then spend $300-400 million more to build a new arena.

Bradley Center was built in 1988 and holds 17,845, 45 luxury suites (used to be 68 but they tore some out to create a couple of clubs and theater boxes. Around 11,000 seats in the upper deck.

I have no idea how the Bradley Center compares to other NHL arenas, but that's what I know about it. Maybe those more familiar with other NHL arenas can compare.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

What would interesting to see is a breakdown of the nationally covered games (VS and NBC) and see how specific markets do in terms of watching games. Throw out the markets with teams already, and then of the remaining markets see which ones perform the best on a per capita basis. Then determine if the market is big enough to support a pro team (ie some small town might have the largest viewership per capita, but clearly cant support a team).

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/following_the_playoffs_in_non_nhl_markets/

This is the best I can find.

 

[Scouter]

logic like this makes no sense to me.

alot of my family lives in seattle. i know what it's like there. and yes, hockey is not the craze, but neither was soccer before the sounders came to town - and they are packing quest field every single game. this is the MLS we're talking about - mind you.

i just don't understand how people expect any market to be a "hockey market" right off the bat without ever having an NHL team to help the market grow. these things take a while to develop. kids have to grow up with the sport, either playing and/or watching it to really become a diehard fan.

seattle would be a great market for hockey, imo. especially now that they lost the sonics. that being said - point is moot since they don't have a viable arena. key arena is an absolute dump. i'm not as familiar with portland - but as has been said - it's tough to compete with an already established competitor for the same dollars.

Key arena is no good anymore, is it too old now even though it was renovated recently?

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Key Arena has to take out a bunch of seats to create a hockey rink which means only 11,000 can attend a hockey game.

 

[The Scouting Report]

Just curious but could Indianapolis support a team?

Extremely doubtful. It's another mid-sized market that has a tremendous amount of competition during the hockey season:

- Indianapolis Colts
- Indiana Pacers
- IU Football/Basketball
- Purdue Football/Basketball
- Butler

Consider the fact that Notre Dame also has a pretty big impact over the city and the Pacers are struggling to even maintain relevance basically negates Indy as a viable NHL market.

Conseco is also too small to hold an NHL ice-surface and a few thousand seats need to be removed from the end to allow an ice-surface to be put in.

 

[member 96824]

If you got the people of Portland into hockey, it would be a hell of a place for a team. They support their blazers so much, some of the best fans in the NBA.

 

[jacketracket*]

They're all good schools to get a degree from, though. Florida and Texas are amongst some of the best schools in the country. UT Austin is a pretty damn good education school. Big 10 is also strong academically.

Let him go - he's on a roll. He's a Canadian, so he would probably know the strengths and weaknesses of American universities better than most ...

 

[Scouter]

Key Arena has to take out a bunch of seats to create a hockey rink which means only 11,000 can attend a hockey game.

Why does Key have to take out 6 or 7,000 for hockey, isn't it just for the Tbirds because they are a junior team?

 

[jkrdevil]

Why does Key have to take out 6 or 7,000 for hockey, isn't it just for the Tbirds because they are a junior team?

It was remodeled to be basketball only. A basketball court is much smaller than an ice rink so seats have to be taken out to fit a rink. Also some of the seats that remain probably have terrible sight lines, like America West Arena in Phoenix was when the Coyotes first moved there.