Would Mike Ricci be considered a bust in today's NHL?

[Jumptheshark]

Thoughts?

how can any player who played over 1000 games be called a bust-he got over 600 pts

not sure where you are coming from

"thought" I think you need to explain WHY you are asking

Ricci was also great on the dot and played the full ice

 

[agentblack]

how can any player who played over 1000 games be called a bust-he got over 600 pts

not sure where you are coming from

"thought" I think you need to explain WHY you are asking

Ricci was also great on the dot and played the full ice

Mmm i guess in retrospect i should have said disappointment bust should be more for just complete failures of players relative to their expectations.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Well I could see Bennett turning into a very fine middle 6 fwd in some fashion, maybe even a great one but if thats what he ends up being after being taken so high we'd crown him a busty boo wouldnt we?

Well, if Bennett ends up with a Ricci type career, which I believe is entirely possible, I think he'd be considered an okay pick. Like Ricci, he will probably have to live with the fact that players taken soon afterwards will end up having better careers.

As much as they like to say differently, drafting isn't a science. Teams are really just gambling on probabilities.

Dal Colle though... now he's looking like an honest to goodness bust.

 

[Bluto]

Mike Ricci might be the ugliest person to ever walk the planet. He was a very effective checking 3rd liner, won a cup, was a great agitator, and put up 600 points. Hard to call that a bust.

 

[puckpilot]

Here's a youtube video of a news report on the draft talking about the first few picks. Take what you will from it.

 

[sr edler]

Mike Ricci might be the ugliest person to ever walk the planet.

Young Ricci was a super model, just look at those cheekbones.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Here's a youtube video of a news report on the draft talking about the first few picks. Take what you will from it.

awesome video, thanks.

highlights of owen nolan and keith primeau scoring on breakaways, jagr stickhandling through the neutral zone, ricci scoring a garbage goal on the rebound... petr nedved dicking around and shooting into an empty net in practice. seems fitting.

Wasn't Jagr basically unanimously considered as the best prospect of the draft but because he had been clear that he wouldn't come over for anyone else than Lemieux he dropped to Pens pick?

in that video, jagr himself claims not to know whether he could come over right away. i guess he could be lying, but why would he?

this myth that jagr would have easily gone first overall except he lied to the first four teams in the draft has really grown on this board in recent years. but even if jagr did have contact with GMs pre-draft, which i think has been documented, and even if he did try to bend it so that he would go to pittsburgh, which might have happened, i don't really think it was a question of page, quinn, devellano, and farwell thinking jagr was head and shoulders ahead but being scared off by him possibly not showing up. i think it was more that the top five picks were all considered potential superstars and given the choice they all preferred the north america-proven talents (and whom they have all seen a lot) over the rawer guy (whom they all saw less of) who might take a little longer, both to come over right away but more importantly to adjust.

remember that quebec, vancouver, detroit, and philadelphia were all horrendous and rebuilding teams. they all would draft in the top ten in the '91 draft, and quebec and philly would have high picks again in '92. sakic was already very good but i don't think anyone really expected him to become the sakic we saw from around '95 on. nobody was sure that fedorov and bure were going to come over and be what they were, and i don't think even detroit knew what they had in lidstrom. detroit had yzerman but was very mediocre behind him (the other guys detroit the toast of the norris in the late 80s: klima, gone. oates, gone. ashton, gone. probert, status very unclear.) philly had basically nothing and was starting from scratch. in a draft that at the time was considered generational, those teams needed a sure hit.

whereas pittsburgh was only temporarily bad. they had mario and coffey, with john cullen emerging as a 90 point scorer, rob brown scoring at a point/game level even without mario, and stevens and recchi making big strides. they acquired mullen the same day, and could afford to be patient and gamble a bit on jagr.

and also don't forget that there was a time that jagr looked just as lost as rookie nolan, nedved, and primeau. he got off to a decent start, picking up four points in his first seven games. but then he scored one single ES point in the next two months (26 games), before picking it up the exact week they got jiri hrdina and rattling off a seven game point streak. he scored a point/game the rest of the year and the rest is, as they say, history.

It's funny how it worked out because in that issue it said bobby Clarke was one of the few guys who felt Jagr was the best player in the draft, yet they ended up taking Ricci!! I guess he was convinced otherwise by his scouts come draft day.

he was fired at the end of the 1989-90 season and actually was hired by minnesota a few days before the 1990 draft. he took hatcher at #8.

 

[brachyrynchos]

Ricci also seemed to have no choice but to play 3rd line centre, that would be reflective of his numbers and the role/minutes he would play. In QUE/COL Sakic and Forsberg were ahead of him, in San Jose, Damphousse and Marleau. A similar scenario nowadays would be playing for teams like Pittsburgh or Washington, and I don't think either fanbase or any other would mind having Ricci as their 3C.

 

[jj cale]

he was fired at the end of the 1989-90 season and actually was hired by minnesota a few days before the 1990 draft. he took hatcher at #8.

Had forgotten about that, so long ago.Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Ricci also seemed to have no choice but to play 3rd line centre, that would be reflective of his numbers and the role/minutes he would play. In QUE/COL Sakic and Forsberg were ahead of him, in San Jose, Damphousse and Marleau. A similar scenario nowadays would be playing for teams like Pittsburgh or Washington, and I don't think either fanbase or any other would mind having Ricci as their 3C.

Yep, this is the key thing to keep in mind when looking at Ricci's point totals - they don't tell you what he could have become (and of course there's no way of knowing that he would have put up those numbers he was expected to heading into the draft had he been given top-line minutes throughout).

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Ricci also seemed to have no choice but to play 3rd line centre, that would be reflective of his numbers and the role/minutes he would play. In QUE/COL Sakic and Forsberg were ahead of him, in San Jose, Damphousse and Marleau. A similar scenario nowadays would be playing for teams like Pittsburgh or Washington, and I don't think either fanbase or any other would mind having Ricci as their 3C.

also, ricci wasn't a "normal" third line center by any stretch. in his first four years in SJ, he was either 3rd or 4th in forward icetime every year, and in two of the seasons took the most faceoffs on the team by a huge margin, and in the other two finished a close second behind damphousse.

 

[Sanf]

awesome video, thanks.

highlights of owen nolan and keith primeau scoring on breakaways, jagr stickhandling through the neutral zone, ricci scoring a garbage goal on the rebound... petr nedved dicking around and shooting into an empty net in practice. seems fitting.



in that video, jagr himself claims not to know whether he could come over right away. i guess he could be lying, but why would he?

this myth that jagr would have easily gone first overall except he lied to the first four teams in the draft has really grown on this board in recent years. but even if jagr did have contact with GMs pre-draft, which i think has been documented, and even if he did try to bend it so that he would go to pittsburgh, which might have happened, i don't really think it was a question of page, quinn, devellano, and farwell thinking jagr was head and shoulders ahead but being scared off by him possibly not showing up. i think it was more that the top five picks were all considered potential superstars and given the choice they all preferred the north america-proven talents (and whom they have all seen a lot) over the rawer guy (whom they all saw less of) who might take a little longer, both to come over right away but more importantly to adjust.

remember that quebec, vancouver, detroit, and philadelphia were all horrendous and rebuilding teams. they all would draft in the top ten in the '91 draft, and quebec and philly would have high picks again in '92. sakic was already very good but i don't think anyone really expected him to become the sakic we saw from around '95 on. nobody was sure that fedorov and bure were going to come over and be what they were, and i don't think even detroit knew what they had in lidstrom. detroit had yzerman but was very mediocre behind him (the other guys detroit the toast of the norris in the late 80s: klima, gone. oates, gone. ashton, gone. probert, status very unclear.) philly had basically nothing and was starting from scratch. in a draft that at the time was considered generational, those teams needed a sure hit.

whereas pittsburgh was only temporarily bad. they had mario and coffey, with john cullen emerging as a 90 point scorer, rob brown scoring at a point/game level even without mario, and stevens and recchi making big strides. they acquired mullen the same day, and could afford to be patient and gamble a bit on jagr.

and also don't forget that there was a time that jagr looked just as lost as rookie nolan, nedved, and primeau. he got off to a decent start, picking up four points in his first seven games. but then he scored one single ES point in the next two months (26 games), before picking it up the exact week they got jiri hrdina and rattling off a seven game point streak. he scored a point/game the rest of the year and the rest is, as they say, history.



he was fired at the end of the 1989-90 season and actually was hired by minnesota a few days before the 1990 draft. he took hatcher at #8.

1990 WHC were few months before the draft and Jagr participated it. Finnish teams were pretty well contacted to Czechoslovakia and the team knew that things were about to change. Most of Finnish league teams sent negotiators to the WHC (7-8 players of that team played next season in Finland). Also the Czechoslovakian team officials let the players have sort of "negotiation hour" during the days. Otherwise the scouts and negotiators would have been constant derail from the tournament. I would be surprised if Jagr didn´t have a good hunch that they were able to go. I guess he may have thinked that maybe team and contract would stop him.. but I don´t know.

edit. Just to add source here. Mostly it´s Kari Virolainen CEO of Jyp HT at the time, one man negotiating in Bern 1990 and signing Leo Gudas and Jiri Dolezal. Interviewed in Jääkiekkolehti in 1996.

 

[sr edler]

I think Ricci has the OHL record (along with Alex DeBrincat) for most consecutive games with a goal (19 games), so he seems to have had a goal scoring edge in junior hockey that didn't really translate to the NHL, at least on a consistent level. It did once in a game against the San Jose Sharks though when he scored 5 goals.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Young Ricci was a super model, just look at those cheekbones.

Man, what in the world happened to Mike's face? There should be a thread on The History forum dedicated to it that investigates this troubling matter.

 

[puckpilot]

Just to add a little more to Jagr's availability, here's a video with Craig Patrick talking about what Jagr was saying to other teams and what he said to Pitts. The video very long video should start at the appropriate section, but if it doesn't the relevant part starts at the 39:50 mark.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Ricci was no slouch as an offensive player early in his career. His career trajectory reminds me a lot of Mike Richards, only Richards had higher highs and lower lows.

 

[ck26]

Mike Ricci played 1200 games in the NHL, had 671 points, won a Stanley Cup, was solid defensively and was tougher than 10 miles in new shoes. He can play on my team any time.
Do you dream of a dynamic 1st line scorer with a top 5 pick? Sure. Was Ricci that? No. But if your team gets 1,000 games out of their 1st rounder every year, you're sitting pretty.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

if you could have any of the top four picks of the 1990 draft's career (just on-ice career, not career earnings... or wife), would you pick ricci's? i might.

up to 1995, after which ricci's offensive game falls off a cliff, he was still the second leading scorer from that draft, after you know who.

up to his cup win in 1996, he'd fallen to fourth but was still ahead of all three guys picked before him.

nolan and nedved pass him in the '97 season, primeau finally in the '99 season, eight years after the draft. ricci actually does take pass primeau back in the '00 season, before primeau takes it for good in '01.

ricci outscored nolan 38 points to 33 in the playoffs when they were on the same team (54 vs 51 games). in between stints as nolan's teammate, of course, ricci won the cup.

nolan-- by far the most elite regular season resume, never accomplished a lick in the playoffs, though he does have an olympic gold medal from 2002, though people generally look back on him making that team as a mistake. has a few high goals finishes but never made a post-season all-star team. 18 seasons, 1,200 games, 885 points; 65 playoff games, 40 points, won two rounds

nedved-- longtime good scorer, never was especially close to great. arguably better known for two protracted holdouts than anything he did on the ice and forced his way out of two very good hockey situations. not a lot to show for his time other than numbers and even though he had his career year with jagr and francis (and mario and zubov on the PP), he never finished top ten in anything. 15 seasons, 982 games, 717 points; 71 playoff games, 42 points, won 5 rounds

primeau-- until an unexpected run in what would be his last season, one of the worst playoff performers in the league. his talent and promise resulted in his team twice getting franchise-altering players when they traded him. never seriously considered for any awards, made two best-on-best team canadas but did not win. 15 seasons, 909 ganes, 619 points; 128 playoff games, 57 points, won 12 rounds

ricci-- in addition to the adulation already posted in this thread, topped out at 3rd and 4th in selke voting. 16 seasons, 1099 games, 605 points; 110 playoff games, 66 points, won 10 rounds and a cup

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

ricci-- in addition to the adulation already posted in this thread, topped out at 3rd and 4th in selke voting. 16 seasons, 1099 games, 605 points; 110 playoff games, 66 points, won 10 rounds and a cup

the other thread just reminded me, ricci's resume should be 3rd, 4th, and 4th in selke voting, in consecutive seasons.

one of those 4ths got mistranscribed as brad richards' on h-r.

so yeah, at the end of the day if i have to choose between the top four of that draft again, i'd take ricci every time.

 

[brachyrynchos]

Pretty unusual that 4 of the first 5 picks that year ended up playing for Philadelphia at one point or another.

 

[streitz]

Ricci isn't soft enough for todays NHL. I remember him throwing a couple bodychecks, I'm sure he'd be suspended nowadays.

 

[Sticks and Pucks]

Mike Ricci's career has definitely been a disappointment considering he was supposed to be the unanimous top pick in 1990 a year before the actual draft. He let the others catch up to him by draft day and fell to fourth overall. His offensive game didn't fully translate in the NHL after that. He's definitely not a bust though, was still very serviceable. Keith Primeau, taken one spot ahead of Ricci, arguably had a worse career.

 

[brachyrynchos]

Picks 7-10 were defensemen, 11th was a goalie (Kidd). Jagr (5th) wanted to play in Pittsburgh. Nedved,one of the last defectors was already taken, Vancouver checked him out when he was with Seattle and Primeau wasn't available either. If Philly wanted a centre it would come down to Scott Scissons and Mike Ricci, both had good junior numbers and were considered quality prospects with alot of promise. Is Ricci a bust? For whom? Philly? They drafted the right guy (Scissons had injury problems and had to retire young) and the next centre drafted was Scott Allison 17th EDM. Ricci ended up being part of the huge Lindros deal. Was Ricci a bust for Quebec-Colorado? Career high points (78) his 1st season with them, his 2nd he hits career high goals (30), in his 4th year he wins a cup as a key part of a strong Avalanche team. Perhaps posters more familiar with the Sharks can tell me how much of a disappointment he was because I don't see it.



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