Would Enforcers have prevented Kassian's kick?

KingsFan7824

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Of course not. The "enforcement" is fun, it gets the blood boiling, but it's never been a deterrent. That video contains only a few examples of how stupid stuff was done, with on ice enforcement. If fighting was a deterrent to anything, the 80's wouldn't have been what they were. Was anyone scared of doing anything?

Skate to the chest, stick to the head, at some point what's the difference?
 

1989

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Aug 3, 2010
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I actually agree if major suspensions were handed out it would decrease dirty hits big time. I also think it would take a lot of the hitting out of hockey, maybe you would watch hockey without physicality but I won't.
Hitting is not illegal. Dirty hits are illegal. Fighting is illegal. You literally quoted my first post where I stated that legal physical punishing play is good.

I seriously question whether you've followed hockey if you think taking out dirty hits and the intent to commit them is the same as taking out legal hitting. They are not even in the same ballpark in terms of committing to an action.

If anything, hitting is going to be removed by CTE lawsuits.

Everyone has answered your questions but you definitely aren't responding in kind. Kind of pointless now.
 

barabas21

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Mar 9, 2016
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Can't give him the benefit of the doubt due to history. Yes, it may have been purely accidental but there's just no way to know for sure, though I understand why it's "different."

On the other hand we have Kassian who repeatedly admits in post-game interviews that he rarely ever regrets his on-ice actions and repeats things like "I wish I only hit him harder." And like him and Chris Simon they do not learn from anything other than the most serious of punishments because they grew up fighting and being aggressive, what's another big fish in a small pond? Make your questionable hit, get your 5 minutes in the box, rinse and repeat. The NHL as it is now can't even be guaranteed to pass on meaningful disciplinary action so there's even less deterrence.

Can we please stop the narrative that Zack Kassian grew up as a fighter? He was a top 15 pick who got invited to the world junior camps. He is a bigger guy that adapted to stay in the league. 10 years ago there were legitimate enforcers playing in major junior hockey who would get drafted to play that role in the pros.
 

barabas21

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Mar 9, 2016
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Hitting is not illegal. Dirty hits are illegal. Fighting is illegal. You literally quoted my first post where I stated that legal physical punishing play is good.

I seriously question whether you've followed hockey if you think taking out dirty hits and the intent to commit them is the same as taking out legal hitting. They are not even in the same ballpark in terms of committing to an action.

If anything, hitting is going to be removed by CTE lawsuits.

Everyone has answered your questions but you definitely aren't responding in kind. Kind of pointless now.

How am I not answering in kind now? I actually thought I was being fairly democratic with still asking questions....If I am still upsetting you PM me.
 
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Of course the player that wants to continue making 6 or 7 figures a year will say the suspension has changed him. Could you imagine if he came out and said the suspension did nothing but me getting slapped around for the world to see actually changed me

Well we already have proof that getting slapped around didn't remotely change him, given how a basic timeline works. Why you're trying to ignore this, I have no idea.

He would be suspended again after that but considering it was three years later and was for a knee, that's at least a step in the right direction. Certainly better than the absolute zero effect Kane had on him.
 
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Can't give him the benefit of the doubt due to history. Yes, it may have been purely accidental but there's just no way to know for sure, though I understand why it's "different."

On the other hand we have Kassian who repeatedly admits in post-game interviews that he rarely ever regrets his on-ice actions and repeats things like "I wish I only hit him harder." And like him and Chris Simon they do not learn from anything other than the most serious of punishments because they grew up fighting and being aggressive, what's another big fish in a small pond? Make your questionable hit, get your 5 minutes in the box, rinse and repeat. The NHL as it is now can't even be guaranteed to pass on meaningful disciplinary action so there's even less deterrence.

Yes you can, Eugene.
 

barabas21

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Mar 9, 2016
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Well we already have proof that getting slapped around didn't remotely change him, given how a basic timeline works. Why you're trying to ignore this, I have no idea.

He would be suspended again after that but considering it was three years later and was for a knee, that's at least a step in the right direction. Certainly better than the absolute zero effect Kane had on him.

A knee on knee vs his predatory head shots is a big difference. I would say he changed his game. Do you disagree?
 

1989

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Can we please stop the narrative that Zack Kassian grew up as a fighter? He was a top 15 pick who got invited to the world junior camps. He is a bigger guy that adapted to stay in the league. 10 years ago there were legitimate enforcers playing in major junior hockey who would get drafted to play that role in the pros.
How often do you need to be easily proved wrong?

Kassian amassed something like 200 more PIMs than points in his junior career. Similar players like Scott Glennie who never even really made the NHL had multiple PPG years like Kassian, and far fewer penalty minutes. No idea how many were fighting majors but let's not assume he was a saint on the ice, let alone a star. In 2009-2010 playing only five games in the season, Kassian had 23 penalty minutes. If I coached a team where there was a player putting my team down 2 minor penalties a night on average, I'd bench him until he smartened up.

Being a "top 15" pick means jack all. Several players ahead of Kassian never amounted to anything. Basic crapshoot rules of the draft - past the top five, teams are just praying their kid turns out. In a 2009 re-draft, I would bet the house Kassian falls from his original draft position. He was never star potential, especially considering teams will start drafting for need vs best at position.

Anyways, this has nothing to do with whether an enforcer would stop Kassian.

Short answer: No, they wouldn't.
 

AnInjuredJasonZucker

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Feb 21, 2014
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Hordichuk was playing with Nashville that year....The year after that incident happened Vancouver signed Hordichuk. So at the time of the stomp they did not have an enforcer. The year after they signed Darcy Hordichuk
I stand corrected. The incident against Calgary still applies.
 

barabas21

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How often do you need to be easily proved wrong?

Kassian amassed something like 200 more PIMs than points in his junior career. Similar players like Scott Glennie who never even really made the NHL had multiple PPG years like Kassian, and far fewer penalty minutes. No idea how many were fighting majors but let's not assume he was a saint on the ice, let alone a star. In 2009-2010 playing only five games in the season, Kassian had 23 penalty minutes. If I coached a team where there was a player putting my team down 2 minor penalties a night on average, I'd bench him until he smartened up.

Being a "top 15" pick means jack all. Several players ahead of Kassian never amounted to anything. Basic crapshoot rules of the draft - past the top five, teams are just praying their kid turns out. In a 2009 re-draft, I would bet the house Kassian falls from his original draft position. He was never star potential, especially considering teams will start drafting for need vs best at position.

Anyways, this has nothing to do with whether an enforcer would stop Kassian.

Short answer: No, they wouldn't.

More PIMS than points is ridiculous for so many reasons. Really being a top 15 pick is jack all? I would say a top 15 pick means a lot.
 

1989

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More PIMS than points is ridiculous for so many reasons. Really being a top 15 pick is jack all? I would say a top 15 pick means a lot.
Stars don't accumulate penalty minutes because they're focused on being stars, which means big minutes producing or preventing a scoring play.
Players who accrue penalty minutes usually don't get the playtime to be stars because they're sitting in the box.
The best skilled physical players (i.e. Iginla, Getzlaf, Howe) outscore their ridiculous penalty minutes over the course of their career. Of course, some don't and obviously it is easier to be penalized than to score but again, Kassian is not in the same conversation anyways.

On average, roughly ascertaining from various sources, a pick at #15 has somewhere between a 40-60% of making the NHL. In Kassian's draft year, 10 players never even made it to the 200 game mark which is a common but loose description of a "successful" draft pick. And again, Kassian would fall outside of the top-15 in a redraft quite easily.

The only thing being drafted means, is that they were drafted. No more, no less. For every McDavid surefire #1 overall, there are the Daigles and Datsyuks, misfires and missed picks.
 
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SotasicA

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Aug 25, 2014
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Kassian wouldn't act like he's the toughest guy out there, that's for sure.

Probably would think twice about stepping over the line.

And either way I'd just love to see the beatdowns and brawls.
 

SotasicA

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That video contains only a few examples of how stupid stuff was done
Meh.

You can't show video of the fights and dirty stuff that never happened because the presence of enforcers prevented them.

Star players felt their enforcers kept them safe. Well, as safe as you can feel playing hockey.
 

KingsFan7824

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Meh.

You can't show video of the fights and dirty stuff that never happened because the presence of enforcers prevented them.

Star players felt their enforcers kept them safe. Well, as safe as you can feel playing hockey.

And you also can't show video of the fights and dirty stuff that happened because of the lack of enforces preventing anything either. Nobody knows with 100% certainty that what Kassian did wouldn't have happened in, whatever year, say 1990. There was no shortage of violence in the golden age of the enforcer.

But I would agree, the players "policing" themselves is more fun than the league doing it. It goes with everything sports is. Tribal. Subjective. Relative. Passionate. Like in the video where Grantao, as the coach, is losing it over whatever happened, but as a player, he might've nearly killed someone. Whereas now, if something happens, the league takes a few days to dole out the punishment, but there's no bench clearing brawls. There's less in the moment adrenaline rush.
 

Legionnaire11

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The “game” that you think I don’t understand is a hazy, inaccurate picture of whatever you thought the “game” was during the era that you’re looking back on with your nostalgia goggles.

Ice Guardians The Movie - On-ice enforcers struggle to rise through the professional ranks of the world's most prestigious hockey league, only to be confronted with a new found fight for the existence of the role itself.

Watch it and see if your opinion is still the same afterwards. Recommended documentary for all NHL fans.
 

Negan4Coach

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Aug 31, 2017
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After watching the Bob Probert documentary the other night- I think you'd have to be insane to mess around with a maniac like that prowling the ice on the other end.
 

Washed Up 29YearOld

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Apr 29, 2018
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Concussions and cheap shots don't get nearly enough discipline that they should.

Concussions RUIN careers and even post-game life.

With 82 games, is 2-3 games really going to deter cheap shots? Especially if it helps your team win and you're a glorified AHL plug--- why not injure? Have nothing else to play for/ help your team win. A 1,000 dollar fine is akin to a 5$ slap on the wrist to the layman.

If the league is serious about player safety, an intentional head shot/ intent to injure by hitting the head should always be MINIMUM 20-30 games. Harsh? Maybe. But guarantee cheap shots will go way down.
 
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Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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Kassian did something stupid and dangerous again.

But the punishment still needs to fit the crime.

No one on the ice thought this was an infraction period. People can freak out about skate blades and what ifs but in context to what Kassian actually did this was not news worthy.

Kassian only gets suspended because of his long term and recent history.

I think he should have only gotten 2. Or maybe even 4 since I'm an Oiler fan and therefore bias.

7 is just way too much in light of Chara significantly more dangerous situation that only resulted in a fine.

The people who are seeing intent to injure on this one are truly bias against Kassian (somewhat warranted) or the Oilers.

Op question is rediculous. Enforcers would laugh their butts off if they were asked to "protect" anyone after a nothing incident like this.
 

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