Would Chicago win a Stanley Cup or two with Denis Savard as coach instead of Q?

[TheRealPepman]

What do you guys think? I came up with this question while reading an article from The Athletic (Oral history: Joel Quenneville, Denis Savard and the...). Good stuff, I tell ya.

Click to read more...

 

[frontsfan2005]

It's hard to say, but Savard did have the young Hawks trending in the right direction in 2007-08.

He took over for Trent Yawney in 06-07, and the team struggled to a 71 point season.

In 07-08, the Blackhawks improved to 88 points with a rookie Kane and Toews in the lineup. The team did well despite injuries to Martin Havlat (played in only 35 games) and Nikolai Khabibulin (50 games, missed a month of action, replaced by Lalime). The Hawks finished three points behind Nashville for the final playoff spot. Had these guys been healthy, who knows, maybe Chicago squeaks in for a first round matchup against Detroit? Even if Quenneville is available, if they put up a good fight against the Wings, or maybe even upset them, would Savard had been fired four games into the next season?

Savard has never had another head coaching job, I'm not sure if that's by choice, or if he has never been offered another job. The playoffs are a lot different than the regular season when it comes to coaching and he never had the opportunity in his brief head coaching career. But he did do a great job in 07-08 and set the foundation for the successes of the franchise after Q took over.

 

[Normand Lacombe]

It's hard to say, but Savard did have the young Hawks trending in the right direction in 2007-08.

He took over for Trent Yawney in 06-07, and the team struggled to a 71 point season.

In 07-08, the Blackhawks improved to 88 points with a rookie Kane and Toews in the lineup. The team did well despite injuries to Martin Havlat (played in only 35 games) and Nikolai Khabibulin (50 games, missed a month of action, replaced by Lalime). The Hawks finished three points behind Nashville for the final playoff spot. Had these guys been healthy, who knows, maybe Chicago squeaks in for a first round matchup against Detroit? Even if Quenneville is available, if they put up a good fight against the Wings, or maybe even upset them, would Savard had been fired four games into the next season?

Savard has never had another head coaching job, I'm not sure if that's by choice, or if he has never been offered another job. The playoffs are a lot different than the regular season when it comes to coaching and he never had the opportunity in his brief head coaching career. But he did do a great job in 07-08 and set the foundation for the successes of the franchise after Q took over.

I believe Dale Tallon and Rocky Wirtz believed Savard was not the coach to get the Hawks to the next level despite the promising season. When Quenneville was hired as a scout a month before the 08-09 season, the writing was on the wall for Savard.

Savard did deserve another NHL head coaching chance somewhere. Don't know why didn't get one. He did a fine job leading Chicago to just their second winning season in 13 years and giving Hawk fans optimism for the first time since the early 1990's. Had Savard remained at the helm for the entire 08-09 season, Chicago would have made the playoffs. I don't know if Savard would have been the coach to lead them to the Stanley Cup as his coaching career was too small.

 

[The Panther]

Yeah, I always wondered why he didn't get another gig. He seemed to know what he was doing. Loved his hyper rant behind the bench that first season (I think).

 

[c9777666]

If Marc Crawford and Bob Hartley can win Cups with Colorado............

 

[Asheville]

If Marc Crawford and Bob Hartley can win Cups with Colorado............

Exactly. Yes, Savard wins a Cup. Tallon is a moron. Look at the tremendous work he's doing with Florida. Doesn't take Tikhonov to win a Cup with Keith, Seabrook, Kane and Toews all in their primes simultaneously.

 

[streitz]

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I believe Savard was content to fill a less prominent job in the Blackhawks front office. I could be wrong, but I never had the impression he was interested in coaching somewhere else.

 

[TheRealPepman]

I believe Savard was content to fill a less prominent job in the Blackhawks front office. I could be wrong, but I never had the impression he was interested in coaching somewhere else.

Savard confirmed it himself on the article I posted above: Maybe there were opportunities to go head coach, possibly assistant coach because I think I was still a young coach. I think I did my grades because I ran penalty killing and power play even with teams before Rocky took over. My special teams were always pretty good. So, I took a lot of pride in that. I could have probably made some calls — I had no agent at the time — and asked if there was an opportunity, had friends who were GMs throughout the league now. No, I’m a Hawk forever. I like it here.

 

[JaegerDice]

Frankly, you or I could have won a cup with the 2010 and 2013 Blackhawks teams.

And any coach that put player performance over loyalty, probably could have done better in 2014.

2015, Q did a good job.

 

[Teemu]

Almost certainly not. Savard has many gifts, but X's and O's weren't one of them--his system was BAD. Defense was pretty much just passive man coverage and other teams just ate the Hawks alive there. The raw talent of the young guns was good enough to spot a decent record, but its hard to see the team ever seriously contending. It's hard to understate what a stark difference there was between Savard's Hawks and Quenneville's Hawks.

 

[Big Phil]

Yeah, I always wondered why he didn't get another gig. He seemed to know what he was doing. Loved his hyper rant behind the bench that first season (I think).

It was something along the lines of:

"I don't know why our guys aren't working hard because the last time I checked they were being paid very well to do so."

I am paraphrasing, but you get it.

I know that Bill Wirtz loved Savard. He always kept him on staff even after a head coach was let go. Maybe it was because of all his contributions to the Hawks those years. Either way, we all know how talented of a player he was, but this could be a knock because sometimes a player of that talent has a hard time relating to the players that aren't performing as well because skill came so easy to them.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Almost certainly not. Savard has many gifts, but X's and O's weren't one of them--his system was BAD. Defense was pretty much just passive man coverage and other teams just ate the Hawks alive there. The raw talent of the young guns was good enough to spot a decent record, but its hard to see the team ever seriously contending. It's hard to understate what a stark difference there was between Savard's Hawks and Quenneville's Hawks.

100% this

Hawks never get past 1st round of playoffs with Savy

Frankly, you or I could have won a cup with the 2010 and 2013 Blackhawks teams.

And any coach that put player performance over loyalty, probably could have done better in 2014.

2015, Q did a good job.

As usual the people who hate Q rewrite history and give him no credit

 

[DowntownBooster]

Frankly, you or I could have won a cup with the 2010 and 2013 Blackhawks teams.

And any coach that put player performance over loyalty, probably could have done better in 2014.

2015, Q did a good job.

I agree. Sometimes it's the players that make the coach look good and sometimes the coach may have been a great player (i.e. Wayne Gretzky) but as a coach cannot translate the knowledge from their own playing skills and abilities over to the players they are coaching.

 

[The Panther]

It was something along the lines of:

"I don't know why our guys aren't working hard because the last time I checked they were being paid very well to do so."

I am paraphrasing, but you get it.

I know that Bill Wirtz loved Savard. He always kept him on staff even after a head coach was let go. Maybe it was because of all his contributions to the Hawks those years. Either way, we all know how talented of a player he was, but this could be a knock because sometimes a player of that talent has a hard time relating to the players that aren't performing as well because skill came so easy to them.

Phil, I'm sure you're right.

I just enjoy coaches going on rants!

 

[Killion]

I just enjoy coaches going on rants!

In some sports, sure. Hockey? Not so much. Self centered egomaniacal idiocy... you kiddin me?

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Frankly, you or I could have won a cup with the 2010 and 2013 Blackhawks teams.

Oh, Jeez- I guess it's something of a public service to be reminded that there are still people out there who think this way. For those here who believe that they could have won a Cup with the 2010 BlackHawks [Your starting Goaltender: Antti Niemi- how soon we forget], my advice would be to start applying for Head-Coaching positions soon. This Cup run redefined for history the level of minimum expected value goalie quality permissible to still have a Championship Season.

As usual the people who hate Q rewrite history and give him no credit

Yes, Sir- that appears to be what's in play here. I dealt with the "stacked team-multiple Cups expected" narrative here:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/current-blackhawks-vs-past-dynasties.1911749/

There's a bit of probability/statistics/odds vs. expectations monologue there- and hopefully it won't be too tedious a read- but to simply cut to the chase on the issue of whether the run could be judged probable, this lone sentence gets to the gist of it.

Anyone who saw this coming 7 or so years ago would be a lot wealthier, if they matched their lucre to their instincts. (composed Midsummer 2015)

As to this issue as to whether Savard could have gotten the 'Hawks to the pinnacle- I suppose it's not mathematically impossible- but I'd assert that the Odds are very much again' it.

 

[Killion]

Why is this thread entertained, still open?

 

[Big Phil]

Frankly, you or I could have won a cup with the 2010 and 2013 Blackhawks teams.

And any coach that put player performance over loyalty, probably could have done better in 2014.

2015, Q did a good job.

I am not following. The Hawks in 2010 and 2013 had some extremely close calls. 2010 not quite as much, but how soon we forget that an unlikely short handed goal sent the game to overtime in Game 5, which they won. Without that, they go down 3-2 heading back to Nashville. 2013 it is the Brent Seabrook show. He saves their bacon in Game 7 vs. Detroit and Game 4 vs. Boston. Both overtime goals and the Hawks don't win the Cup if they lose either game. Also Game 6 of the final was nearly over before the two goal explosion at the last minute. How soon we forget just how good Boston was in 2013 and how close the Hawks came.

Quenneville should get some of that respect and credit, no?

Phil, I'm sure you're right.

I just enjoy coaches going on rants!

Oh hey look, he was still right in what he said. Maybe the players didn't like being called out, but he wasn't wrong either.

 

[tony d]

Got to think so, the talent those Chicago teams had back in the day anyone could have came in as coach and a Cup could have been won.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Ridiculous line of reasoning to say "anyone could have..." even if you just limit that to professional coaches...that's not to say Q is the only one who could have done it, but that's a sick joke to say that anyone could have done it...takes a supreme lack of understanding of the game to make that claim...

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I never thought Quenneville's coaching job in 2010 was particularly impressive. But he grew as a coach along with that team. I believe he was a much better coach by the time the 2015 Cup rolled around.

 

[The Pale King]

I think the premise of this thread is fine as Savard himself is enough of an unknown as a coach to at least render it a fair question. But the posters saying that anyone could have won with those rosters are laughable.

Put Hakstol or Bylsma behind the bench in 2013 and we're talking about the three-peat Kings teams. Not to mention winning with four defensemen in 2015.

Q has worn out his welcome according to Hawks fans here but that doesn't mean he wasn't an excellent coach for a span of years, enough to win them some much needed Cups and change the entire outlook of the franchise. Sutter is the same way.