Speculation: Would Buffalo be interested in Zaitsev?

[JetsHomer]

If they're interested in a serviceable right d why would they trade for Zaitsev

 

[LucicAndChong]

Nope, I’m saying the way people do it on hf is not how you negotiate in real life.

Being rude and trying to devalue someone’s asset isn’t going to get you a better price - it’s going to get you hung up on or shown the door.

so, apart from after everyone started s****** on me, when was I rude? In my original post I was not rude, when I provided facts to show that Bracco is playing the same as/better than Nylander at the same age, I wasn't rude.

I was rude when other people decide that they are going to s*** all over my proposal because I am a leafs fan and god forbid I try to make a fair trade to get rid of a over-priced 3rd pairing defenceman.

also, again, when you negotiate with someone in real life, you do devalue their assets, especially when buying a car.

You say "Yeah well its got this and this and this wrong with it which will cost me x amount to fix and take x time to fix, so I will pay you x amount instead of y amount"

Devaluing the other persons asset is literally one of the key ways to negotiate for a car. Have you ever bought a car?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm defending the logic that an amateur scout whos job is to scout Swedish draft prospects wasn't involved in the contract negotiations for Zatisev. You're just spinning your wheels trying to find any way to take the blame off of Lou.

Didn't I say Lou gets the horns on this one? Did I not say this in the post you replied to? Obcourse I did. But you missed it. Wonder why?

As the GM. Ultimately the buck stops with him. But The Leafs mgt group I was told was a group think tank. You bet he asked around the room for opinions. And I bet it was a collective yay, not nay.

All in all, Lou getting Dion off the books without retention, with the Rielly team friendly signing more than made up for this collective blunder wouldn't you say?

 

[sansabri]

When did Zaitsev get this kind of value?

 

[Stuzchuk]

Zaitsev + 2020-2nd for a 7th to OTT... problem solved

 

[82Ninety42011]

He gets a lot of hate in Toronto because someone has to.

He’s actually got some decent skills, he’s being thrust on the responsibility of playing a defensive role on a pairing with Gardiner but actually historically he’s more of a mobile offensive dman, at least that’s what he was back in the KHL.

He’s got a good shot but seldom uses it. I’m not sure why his development has stagnated so much in Toronto. A large part of it seems to be due to Gardiner being seen as the go-to offensive guy, so Zaitsev usually dishes to Gardiner who then feeds the forwards.

Zaitsev has a lot of comparables to Lidstrom. And yes, obviously no where near the same overall skill level, but Lidstrom-lite is a good way of qualifying him.

Where he’s doing poorly is gap control, and hockey IQ. He too often is letting the opposition gain the zone and establish a cycle with impunity, and he seems to be quite uncoordinated with Gardiner in the defensive zone, leading to a lot of scoring chances that seemed highly preventable.

In the few games where he’s been partnered with someone else, he’s done a lot better. I feel like it’s just a by-product of the Leafs’ backend. He’s unquestionably our best RHD but not good enough to be on the top line. So he defaults to the 2nd pairing but he’s not well suited to pairing with Gardiner.

Babcock still wants him used more than the 3rd pairing though. So he won’t keep him Dermott, although that’s probably the best slot for him.

His contract is fair. Not great and not an albatross like some Leafs fans believe.

And in years 5-7 will look like a steal because he’s only going to get better.

Thank you for the in depth analysis seems that Babcock is miss using him I suppose. Pairing him with Dermott as others have suggested as well should be set pairing. I'm guessing Gardiner is gone in off season so maybe Dermott moves to top four and this puts Zaitsev in a more favourable position to succeed next year.

 

[Hunter368]

Merged threads

 

[LucicAndChong]

He gets a lot of hate in Toronto because someone has to.

He’s actually got some decent skills, he’s being thrust on the responsibility of playing a defensive role on a pairing with Gardiner but actually historically he’s more of a mobile offensive dman, at least that’s what he was back in the KHL.

He’s got a good shot but seldom uses it. I’m not sure why his development has stagnated so much in Toronto. A large part of it seems to be due to Gardiner being seen as the go-to offensive guy, so Zaitsev usually dishes to Gardiner who then feeds the forwards.

Zaitsev has a lot of comparables to Lidstrom. And yes, obviously no where near the same overall skill level, but Lidstrom-lite is a good way of qualifying him.

Where he’s doing poorly is gap control, and hockey IQ. He too often is letting the opposition gain the zone and establish a cycle with impunity, and he seems to be quite uncoordinated with Gardiner in the defensive zone, leading to a lot of scoring chances that seemed highly preventable.

In the few games where he’s been partnered with someone else, he’s done a lot better. I feel like it’s just a by-product of the Leafs’ backend. He’s unquestionably our best RHD but not good enough to be on the top line. So he defaults to the 2nd pairing but he’s not well suited to pairing with Gardiner.

Babcock still wants him used more than the 3rd pairing though. So he won’t keep him Dermott, although that’s probably the best slot for him.

His contract is fair. Not great and not an albatross like some Leafs fans believe.

And in years 5-7 will look like a steal because he’s only going to get better.

he looks a lot worse than he is because he is an offensive defenceman who isn't the best defensively, forced to play the style of a defensive defenceman with a blackhole defensive partner in gardiner.

HFBoards likes to just take any s*** people throw on the leafs and run with it without ever actually, I dont know, watching the leafs play. Yes Zaitsev makes a lot of mistakes, but most defenceman do. His problem is that he is forced to be someone he isnt, and can't rely on his partner to bail him out

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

so, apart from after everyone started s****** on me, when was I rude? In my original post I was not rude, when I provided facts to show that Bracco is playing the same as/better than Nylander at the same age, I wasn't rude.

I was rude when other people decide that they are going to s*** all over my proposal because I am a leafs fan and god forbid I try to make a fair trade to get rid of a over-priced 3rd pairing defenceman.

also, again, when you negotiate with someone in real life, you do devalue their assets, especially when buying a car.

You say "Yeah well its got this and this and this wrong with it which will cost me x amount to fix and take x time to fix, so I will pay you x amount instead of y amount"

Devaluing the other persons asset is literally one of the key ways to negotiate for a car. Have you ever bought a car?

I never said anything about you being rude personally.

The typical “negotiation tactics” posters use on here often are rude. And yes, I’ve bought several vehicles over the course of my life and understand how negotiating works.

The problem here seems to be that you can’t see the difference between real life negotiation and the way people often conduct themselves on hf.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

I'm sure there is at least one team in the league - probably more - that would want a player like Zaitsev the question is what they would be able to free up in return. Zaitsev in an off season trade anyways

 

[Team Cozens]

Merged threads

Please close this one before I throw up. #Sabresfan

 

[LucicAndChong]

I never said anything about you being rude personally.

The typical “negotiation tactics” posters use on here often are rude. And yes, I’ve bought several vehicles over the course of my life and understand how negotiating works.

The problem here seems to be that you can’t see the difference between real life negotiation and the way people often conduct themselves on hf.

No I get that, what I don’t get is why I was being mocked for using real life negotiation strategies, you know the ones that the actual GMs who are making the trades use.

Man when I first joined this site I thought it would be a fun place to come and talk to hockey fans, propose trades and hey if the value was off that’s fine people will say why it’s wrong and that’s it. Fans of all teams could come together and appreciate hockey. But this place is toxic with a veeeeery toxic anti-leafs hivemind that mocks anything we try to post.

But hey, keeps insulting my actual negotiating strategies while everyone else sits here with fingers up their a** and their makebelieve negotioation strats

 

[Raym11]

Why on earth would Buffalo want Zaitsev

 

[The3rd]

Zaitsev + 2020-2nd for a 7th to OTT... problem solved

Deal!

 

[RWatson29]

Yeah no chance we would want Zaitsev.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

He has negative value. Any deal needs to see Okposo going back the other way

 

[Blitz]

This... this is actually ridiculous. How does my post get mocked and this is ok???

Because at no point did i realistically think my mockery proposal was actually a legit good/feesable idea... You somehow thought your disaster was.

 

[TBF1972]

Zaitsev + 2020-2nd for a 7th to OTT... problem solved

I could see that. Right before the 2020 Draft.

 

[Liferleafer]

He has negative value. Any deal needs to see Okposo going back the other way

So a contract that's essentially worse than Zaitsev's....

 

[Seras]

Not paying to move him, will keep

 

[Tit]

I think if the leafs want to gain some cap relief, getting marleau to retire and move his contract to Arizona after his bonuses are paid, is the only real option.

Replacing Zaitsev from within or via UFA will be very difficult.
Replacing him via trade will be even more difficult, as I believe Dubas would've acquired a real RHD already instead of Muzzin.

We are stuck with Zaitsev, boyos.

 

[LucicAndChong]

Because at no point did i realistically think my mockery proposal was actually a legit good/feesable idea... You somehow thought your disaster was.

so then why did you post it? i mean you obviously did think it was worth it because you even went as far as to provide me with the contract info. I highly doubt you would have done that, or added the stickers to make it look nice, if it was just a joke.

If you're going to make a s*** proposal, atleast stand by it.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

I think if the leafs want to gain some cap relief, getting marleau to retire and move his contract to Arizona after his bonuses are paid, is the only real option.

Replacing Zaitsev from within or via UFA will be very difficult.
Replacing him via trade will be even more difficult, as I believe Dubas would've acquired a real RHD already instead of Muzzin.

We are stuck with Zaitsev, boyos.

It's going to be easier the longer the contract burns. Maybe it happens in the offseason? Maybe next TDL but it's going to happen.

 

[Tit]

Zaitsev gets a 3M dollar signing bonus July 1st 2019 and July 1st 2020.
Probably happens after one of those two dates.

 

[OkimLom]

he looks a lot worse than he is because he is an offensive defenceman who isn't the best defensively, forced to play the style of a defensive defenceman with a blackhole defensive partner in gardiner.

HFBoards likes to just take any s*** people throw on the leafs and run with it without ever actually, I dont know, watching the leafs play. Yes Zaitsev makes a lot of mistakes, but most defenceman do. His problem is that he is forced to be someone he isnt, and can't rely on his partner to bail him out

Until the last word of the bolded sentence, I thought you were discussing Ristolainen