Future GOAT
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- Apr 4, 2017
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Would another Cup + CS put OV ahead of Crosby?
- Thread starter Varan
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Hockeyholic
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OVI & Sid do have a lot over Malkin. I thought the poster was hinting that Malkin doesn't have much of anything over anyone. In otherwords, referring to the idea he ( Geno) isn't very accomplished. I misunderstood the statement.
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
I don't think I've ever agreed with you so much. This needs to get in everyone's heads. People have been comparing an all around center to a goalscoring winger. Makes no sense.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
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Most of the time, I post to just get a reaction, not trolling per se, just to push people's boundaries to see if they're willing to think outside of the box and not just follow popular opinion, outside of the Pens board anyway. The main board is kind of a cesspool if you've noticed.
There are many things that show clearly Ovechkin > Crosby even without an extra Cup
- Ovechkin has a better peak. Even if we take the best full seasons by Crosby (06/07, 13/14, and 09/10), Ovechkin in 07-10 has a bit higher ppg, the same point lead over the field, and way more goals. If we define peak as three best consecutive years, to account for the importance of sustained dominance, it is not close at all, as we will be pitching Crosby's 2012-2015 vs. Ovechkin's 2007-2010.
- Ovechkin had better prime too. Even if we look at their 7 or 9 most productive seasons, the ppg is really close, and Ovechkin's goal-scoring and the fact that he is a goal-scoring winger (and thus will not touch the puck as much and will not get garbage assits from cycling the puck) tip the scales in his favor.
- Ovechkin is more significant historically. His seven-goalscoring titles will not be surpassed for a long time and the same is true about his 7x 50-goal seasons and 9x 45 goal seasons unless they make the nets bigger or smth. We will not have an Ovechkin-caliber goal-scorer probably for decades, and it seems that we already have a better Crosby in McDavid.
- On a smaller note, Ovechkin defines LW position (together with Bobby Hull). It is just impossible to tell the history of hockey without Ovechkin. Crosby, on the other hand? How often do you hear about Mikita and his 4 Art Rosses? Now compare that with 7 goal-scoring titles by Bobby Hull or the first 50-in-50 by Richard.
- Ovechkin compares well with Richard; with a couple 40-goal seasons more, let alone another goal-scoring title, he will have Richard beat at Richard's strongest suite (goal-scoring) and will leap-frog him in all-time rankings, and Richard is everyone's top10 ever. Crosby, on the other hand, is hardly better than Mikita, since Mikita was so much better in regular season that Crosby's Cups and Smythes cannot overcome that, and nobody has Mikita in top10 ever.
- Ovechkin has a better peak. Even if we take the best full seasons by Crosby (06/07, 13/14, and 09/10), Ovechkin in 07-10 has a bit higher ppg, the same point lead over the field, and way more goals. If we define peak as three best consecutive years, to account for the importance of sustained dominance, it is not close at all, as we will be pitching Crosby's 2012-2015 vs. Ovechkin's 2007-2010.
- Ovechkin had better prime too. Even if we look at their 7 or 9 most productive seasons, the ppg is really close, and Ovechkin's goal-scoring and the fact that he is a goal-scoring winger (and thus will not touch the puck as much and will not get garbage assits from cycling the puck) tip the scales in his favor.
- Ovechkin is more significant historically. His seven-goalscoring titles will not be surpassed for a long time and the same is true about his 7x 50-goal seasons and 9x 45 goal seasons unless they make the nets bigger or smth. We will not have an Ovechkin-caliber goal-scorer probably for decades, and it seems that we already have a better Crosby in McDavid.
- On a smaller note, Ovechkin defines LW position (together with Bobby Hull). It is just impossible to tell the history of hockey without Ovechkin. Crosby, on the other hand? How often do you hear about Mikita and his 4 Art Rosses? Now compare that with 7 goal-scoring titles by Bobby Hull or the first 50-in-50 by Richard.
- Ovechkin compares well with Richard; with a couple 40-goal seasons more, let alone another goal-scoring title, he will have Richard beat at Richard's strongest suite (goal-scoring) and will leap-frog him in all-time rankings, and Richard is everyone's top10 ever. Crosby, on the other hand, is hardly better than Mikita, since Mikita was so much better in regular season that Crosby's Cups and Smythes cannot overcome that, and nobody has Mikita in top10 ever.
spiny norman
Administrator
These are two of the most intellectually dishonest things you stated:
Crosby's career PPG is 1.29, OV's is 1.12. A 15% difference or a 14 point/82 game difference. Trying to spin their PPGs as being "really close" in any context is ridiculous.
OV plays the weaker position and has needed a very good centre to feed him the puck. Crosby is the epitome of an all around great offensive centre who can do everything and play with anyone and still produce. IMO, their respective team successes is very much reflective of the value each one brought.
It took thirteen years for OV to finally figure out what he needed to do to win, Crosby knew from the get go.
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PatriceBergeronFan
Registered User
Wins what? Cups and best-on-best tournaments?
Or do you mean wins Conn Smythes despite being outscored by a teammate? Oh, the irony....
On a bigger note, it will be impossible to talk about the history of hockey in the new millennium without Crosby being recognized as the greatest player of that era.
Or in talk about winning the Stanley Cup, the pinnacle of the sport, how Crosby is the only player with three Cups and back-t0-back Smythes.
Or in talk about winning championships and MVPs in general, how Crosby may have the most diverse team and individual NHL, international, and junior resume in hockey history.
PatriceBergeronFan
Registered User
tony d
Registered User
Unlike Crosby, it helps to have a player who put up the most playoff points in 20 years on your line.
filinski77
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- Feb 12, 2017
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The poster specifically said "Even if we look at their 7 or 9 most productive seasons, the ppg is really close" and then you come at him saying he is intellectually dishonest, and your support for that is by looking at 'career PPG', which is completely not what he was referring to.
Their 7 or 9 most productive seasons came at different times with different scoring levels and excludes Crosby's partial seasons. It's very misleading.
Varan
Registered User
dude you really can't say that when your own teammate put up 36 points and another where you couldn't even crack 20
how many times do we have to go over this. you can't have it both ways. both players have had help in the past there's nothing wrong with that. this isn't basketball.
Voight
#winning
Voight
#winning
Actually, that was Malkin in 2009.
Yes he was not on 87's line, but hes the one w/ the most playoff points in the last 20 years. Kuzy is 2nd.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
Wouldn't some people use Crosby's 2 Olympic Gold medals as a reason why he will still be better than Ovechkin?
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
I feel like a few of the purest goal scorers in history get underrated in all-time discussions (guys like Gartner, Bossy, Bondra are often afterthoughts, even guys with injury issues like Bure) and I've felt for a while like Ovy was getting that bum rap, so even though it's contentious, I'm glad we can at least have this discussion.
Varan
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