World Juniors' Attendance

[BuffaloPete]

I don't think they are even close to being comparable.

Well if we just look at NHL attendance:

This season
Wild average 17534 (97.1%)
Sabres average 18300 (97.9%)

And if you look back through the years it's also very close. There's more to it than NHL attendance numbers but the Buffalo area is much smaller than the Twin Cities and is also in worse shape economically, so I think it says something.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

That is ****ing insanity, those kinds of prices are ridiculous.

I have to disagree.

 

[dystemper]

Tickets are not cheap when the tournemant was in ottawa i paid around $2500 for 16 games yes it included the play offs.

you can charge that much in any major canadian city for this tournament.

but the organizers are trying to do it in buffalo... and it's backfiring in a big way. instead of creating an awesome atmosphere, packed with excited people, it's tepid and half-empty. the defending champions basically have no cheering section.

it seems like they really blew it. but to them, i'm sure they don't care as long as the money flows into their pockets, and it evidently is.

 

[BlackAces*]

They are but for many its a great tournemant and they will pay big bucks to go.

Hey, this is my favourite tournament, extremely talented young players playing for the pure love of the game, the logo on the front, and beating the tar out of each other. It is the best.

That said, those prices are ****ing insanity.

 

[Chainshot]

That's kind of an ignorant and chauvinistic thing to say, don't you think? Not to mention downright insulting to the several countries who have hosted this tournament before.

It's not the nationally rabid event that it is in Canada. So much identity is tied into this (and now the Olympics), it's a level of fanaticism that would require some event to galvanize another nation in word and deed akin to the Nats loss in Hamilton in '86 and the Punchup in Piestany the following year did for Canadian drive.


That said, I'm underwhelmed by the local support and I was one of the loud USA chanting fans in the upper bowl yesterday. It's priced outside what the majority of people are willing to pay for this tournament locally. I commend their business sense in landing the contest and being able to bilk, err find willing customers from the Golden Horseshoe to fill the stands. Yet, it would be great to have heavier local turnout.

 

[seanlinden]

That is an amazing deal.

Tell me about it.... I can't imagine the gold package selling too well because most of the Niagra games are crappy matchups (with no incentive to purchase), but the Silver + Bronze packages are great. Sure, you have some crappy games, and for a Canadian it would be tough to get rid of those, but it also gets you medal round tickets.

It is clear that there is price gouging going on -- the Canada-Czech game tomorrow is another where the cheapest seats in the rink are $70 for an individual seat and over $100 for almost every other seat. It's clearly being done to drill cash out of Canadian fans and at the same point it scares the locals away because it is more than they are willing to spend.

Definitely. It's hard to accomplish (and highly frowned upon if done in extreme levels), but what they really needed to do was be able to figure out a way to price gouge Canadians, yet make the american games accessible to Americans for cheaper. They are sort of doing that:

-cheapest seat for a Canada game is $70 (Canada-Sweden is $80)
-cheapest seat for an American game is $65
-cheapest seat for a Finland-Germany (and basically all non-USA/Canada) game is $25.

The mistake seems to be in the american pricing. No Canadian is going to buy an individual ticket for a USA game, regardless of price.... yet there were 4000 tickets unsold for last nights game. Then again, it also doesn't look good on tournament organizers to price Canada at $70, and USA at $35.

This tournament is an opportunity for USA Hockey to generate fans for life (and more interest on ESPN and such), and they're blowing it. In today's world, it's all about media coverage, TSN manufactured the world juniors to be huge in Canada, the states needs the same thing. The alternatives for Americans were tough, they can pay $65/game to watch in the upper bowl, or they can buy the entire tournament for $500 / seat, and then go through the hassle of trying to get rid of a bunch of tickets (although they problably could've made their money back simply by selling the Canadian games).

Maybe they expected higher intelligence levels from ticket buyers? An american could problably sell the 4 Canadian round robins on the street or StubHub for $30 each, and a 2 medal round games for $50 each. All of a sudden that's $280 to attend 4 USA Round Robin Games, and the Semis + Finals. $45/seat isn't too bad.

 

[Hawkster58]

Hi VCV,

I disagree. Hockey Canada has been using the "Have to Buy All the Games" method for years - to great success, I might add. USA Hockey just modelled their sales after Canada's proven method. Larry Quinn had nothing to do with it.

And, I believe, it worked. I believe they sold far more tickets (to Canadians of course) then they would have if they had split up the games. I, myself, have the Silver Package - a pair of tickets to 21 games. If I had my ways I would have only bought half of those tickets. By doing it the was they did, they sold a ton of seats.

There is a (terrific) writer for Canada's "National Post" (Bruce Authur) who said it best (I am paraphrasing)... He said the difference between Canadian and US Hockey fans is NOT the love of the game but the willingness to spend BIG dollars to see it. I agree.

When I was told my Silver Package (the one needed to see all of the Canadian games) would set me back $2,300 (after exchange), I did not blink. I thought :

"Yup, that sounds about right. Yes... that is what I am willing to pay to see 4 Round Robin Canadian games, the Quarters, Semis and, most importantly, the Gold Medal game."

And I know there were thousands and thousands of Canadians who thought the same way. (* I know USA Hockey said 2/3 tickets were sold to Canadians but I would be willing to bet it was higher. *)

Let me sum it up this way... if Canada ends up the finals with the US or Russia the 'stubhub' prices for the Gold Medal game will be thru the roof. But most of the Canadians I know still would never consider selling them - I know I wouldn't. We would think :

1) The team needs our support;
2) This is a once in a lifetime experience;
3) Ths is the WJR's!!!

I don't think an average American hockey fan would think that way - not a put down, just a fact.

This.

I feel exactly the same way.

 

[wjhl2009fan]

Hey, this is my favourite tournament, extremely talented young players playing for the pure love of the game, the logo on the front, and beating the tar out of each other. It is the best.

That said, those prices are ****ing insanity.

Yes its not cheap but the demand is there i was not happy about the prices but i was not going to say i am not going to go.

 

[BlackAces*]

Well if we just look at NHL attendance:

This season
Wild average 17534 (97.1%)
Sabres average 18300 (97.9%)

And if you look back through the years it's also very close. There's more to it than NHL attendance numbers but the Buffalo area is much smaller than the Twin Cities and is also in worse shape economically, so I think it says something.

Buffalo has had a good team more often than not over the past 10 years, Wild fans have been force fed crap.

Minnesota had a sell-out streak until this year, so you can't just cherry pick this season and compare the two.

Buffalo gets a lot of support from Southern Ontario, Minnesota doesn't get nearly the same from surrounding areas.

The Twin cities are bigger, they also have the NFL/NBA/MLB to compete with, where as Buffalo only has the Bills.

Most importantly of all: Hockey matters in Minnesota, they support it at every level, not just the NHL, and genuinely love the sport. That is the biggest difference.

 

[Chainshot]

Hey, this is my favourite tournament, extremely talented young players playing for the pure love of the game, the logo on the front, and beating the tar out of each other. It is the best.

That said, those prices are ****ing insanity.

I agree. I've been watching as much of the U-20's as possible since the '86 tournament in Hamilton where the games were carried on local Hamilton CHCH channel 11 (which with a pair of rabbit ears, came in just fine down here in WNY). The '89 tournament in Alaska was on CBC, typically after midnight on tape delay. Pre-internet sports results were hard to come by, so they could do this sort of stuff. Internet video streaming and the proximity of TSN feeds (it's 25 minutes for me to be in downtown Niagara Falls, ON on a normal bridge day) has kept it in view more so over the last 12 years or so, but I know that I am not the norm among local hockey fans.

It would be great if people thought the price was worth it. Yet I completely understand how it isn't priced for accessibility. It's priced to sock it to people who historically will pay for this and sadly, that's my fellow hockey fans from across the border.

 

[puck swami]

This. Would Buffalo sell out their building for the state high school championship?

No.

Minnesotans love high school hockey, college hockey and even NHL hockey when Minnesota teams and players are involved. They have a lot of state pride connected to hockey but there are limits to it, IMHO.

I doubt Minnesotans love the game so much that they would pay big money to see teams without Minnesotans play.

In Canada, they love the game first.

 

[BlackAces*]

you can charge that much in any major canadian city for this tournament.

but the organizers are trying to do it in buffalo... and it's backfiring in a big way. instead of creating an awesome atmosphere, packed with excited people, it's tepid and half-empty. the defending champions basically have no cheering section.

it seems like they really blew it. but to them, i'm sure they don't care as long as the money flows into their pockets, and it evidently is.

Agreed.

 

[Chainshot]

Buffalo has had a good team more often than not over the past 10 years, Wild fans have been force fed crap.

Minnesota had a sell-out streak until this year, so you can't just cherry pick this season and compare the two.

Buffalo gets a lot of support from Southern Ontario, Minnesota doesn't get nearly the same from surrounding areas.

The Twin cities are bigger, they also have the NFL/NBA/MLB to compete with, where as Buffalo only has the Bills.

Most importantly of all: Hockey matters in Minnesota, they support it at every level, not just the NHL, and genuinely love the sport. That is the biggest difference.

Hockey matters in WNY, but not to the level that MN Highschool hockey does in Minny. I think Minnesota would likely have a very good turnout for the WJC's, particularly with the selling point of seeing HS heroes skating for the nation. However, would that be enough to make up for the millions of possible consumers within an hour's drive of Buffalo that the GTA, Golden Horseshoe, and the steadily growing Niagara Region affords the organizers? It might. It might not. The Canadian proximity can't be discounted out of hand -- it is clearly a prime driving force in attendance at this event. Just look back to the rather spartan attendance in Boston in '96 despite being the heart of one of the biggest hockey-mad areas in the US.

If Team USA could somehow make it part of national identity, maybe the interest would grow, but there isn't anything to that yet, even with years of finishing out of the medals.

 

[BlackAces*]

Tell me about it.... I can't imagine the gold package selling too well because most of the Niagra games are crappy matchups (with no incentive to purchase), but the Silver + Bronze packages are great. Sure, you have some crappy games, and for a Canadian it would be tough to get rid of those, but it also gets you medal round tickets.

It is a shame more didn't take advantage of those early package prices.

I agree. I've been watching as much of the U-20's as possible since the '86 tournament in Hamilton where the games were carried on local Hamilton CHCH channel 11 (which with a pair of rabbit ears, came in just fine down here in WNY). The '89 tournament in Alaska was on CBC, typically after midnight on tape delay. Pre-internet sports results were hard to come by, so they could do this sort of stuff. Internet video streaming and the proximity of TSN feeds (it's 25 minutes for me to be in downtown Niagara Falls, ON on a normal bridge day) has kept it in view more so over the last 12 years or so, but I know that I am not the norm among local hockey fans.

It would be great if people thought the price was worth it. Yet I completely understand how it isn't priced for accessibility. It's priced to sock it to people who historically will pay for this and sadly, that's my fellow hockey fans from across the border.

It is definitely a mistake to take the Canadian model of ticket pricing and transposing it anywhere else.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

During the Finland-USA game, I saw a lot more Canadian jerseys in the crowd. Finland got a loud cheer every time they scored.

 

[BlackAces*]

Hockey matters in WNY, but not to the level that MN Highschool hockey does in Minny. I think Minnesota would likely have a very good turnout for the WJC's, particularly with the selling point of seeing HS heroes skating for the nation. However, would that be enough to make up for the millions of possible consumers within an hour's drive of Buffalo that the GTA, Golden Horseshoe, and the steadily growing Niagara Region affords the organizers? It might. It might not. The Canadian proximity can't be discounted out of hand -- it is clearly a prime driving force in attendance at this event. Just look back to the rather spartan attendance in Boston in '96 despite being the heart of one of the biggest hockey-mad areas in the US.

I think the local market would support it very well, but I also think you would see a lot of people coming down from Manitoba (for sure), you would get a fair amount from Saskatchewan, and even Ontario.

It is a valid factor to take into account, but I think Minnesota is close enough. I know people who have season tickets to the Vikings who live in Winnipeg. More than you would think.

Manitoba loves this tournament.

 

[CharlieGirl]

It was more the pricing structure. Walkup, the cheapest seats in the house are $75. That's more than the Sabres lowest games. There isn't that much money laying aorund for many locals to blow a grand for relatively bad seats for the round-robin tournament. Most who spent, spent on the packages.

That's sort of what I was getting at -- if western New Yorkers had $75 to spend on a sporting event, that money would be spent on a Bills ticket before it would be spent on what is considered amateur hockey.

But $75 is a huge amount when you can see the Sabres for less than that. I can see why people are walking away from that.

 

[Chainshot]

Tell me about it.... I can't imagine the gold package selling too well because most of the Niagra games are crappy matchups (with no incentive to purchase), but the Silver + Bronze packages are great. Sure, you have some crappy games, and for a Canadian it would be tough to get rid of those, but it also gets you medal round tickets.



Definitely. It's hard to accomplish (and highly frowned upon if done in extreme levels), but what they really needed to do was be able to figure out a way to price gouge Canadians, yet make the american games accessible to Americans for cheaper. They are sort of doing that:

-cheapest seat for a Canada game is $70 (Canada-Sweden is $80)
-cheapest seat for an American game is $65
-cheapest seat for a Finland-Germany (and basically all non-USA/Canada) game is $25.

The mistake seems to be in the american pricing. No Canadian is going to buy an individual ticket for a USA game, regardless of price.... yet there were 4000 tickets unsold for last nights game. Then again, it also doesn't look good on tournament organizers to price Canada at $70, and USA at $35.

This tournament is an opportunity for USA Hockey to generate fans for life (and more interest on ESPN and such), and they're blowing it. In today's world, it's all about media coverage, TSN manufactured the world juniors to be huge in Canada, the states needs the same thing. The alternatives for Americans were tough, they can pay $65/game to watch in the upper bowl, or they can buy the entire tournament for $500 / seat, and then go through the hassle of trying to get rid of a bunch of tickets (although they problably could've made their money back simply by selling the Canadian games).

Maybe they expected higher intelligence levels from ticket buyers? An american could problably sell the 4 Canadian round robins on the street or StubHub for $30 each, and a 2 medal round games for $50 each. All of a sudden that's $280 to attend 4 USA Round Robin Games, and the Semis + Finals. $45/seat isn't too bad.

Yeah, I would have much preferred a lower overall ticket pricing, especially for games involving the non-North American teams, to get people in the seats and grow the basic interest of the game. The pre-tournie games in Jamestown were under 20 dollars a seat and there are clearly some very jazzed up "new" junior hockey fans down there after two days of tune up games. Imagining having that sort of hard-core rooting interest for a group in a larger community would be great.

But that isn't how they priced it. They priced it to make money on it. Heck, the team has flexed pricing on games against known draws (the Leafs and Habs primarily) where they then don't sell out but make more on the gate due to the overall cost of the seats.

While I hate the pricing... I do love that it is here (and that I can take my son without a long drive or other costs. I know that he will remember this -- he's already asking if we can go to Russia for the Olympics.... ) I would love it more if MORE people found it affordable to fill the rink and give all these kids the experience of a packed house that they deserve.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

It's priced to sock it to people who historically will pay for this and sadly, that's my fellow hockey fans from across the border.

We Canadians, are a nutty group.

 

[BlackAces*]

But $75 is a huge amount when you can see the Sabres for less than that. I can see why people are walking away from that.

Agreed. Just stupid. You know organizers were banking on Canadians paying that price, because we will. However, we are talking about amateur athletes here, and growing the tournament in the US, making the most money shouldn't have been primary goal. You can make a lot of money, rather than an obscene amount of money, and create a better atmosphere.

 

[Chainshot]

That's sort of what I was getting at -- if western New Yorkers had $75 to spend on a sporting event, that money would be spent on a Bills ticket before it would be spent on what is considered amateur hockey.

But $75 is a huge amount when you can see the Sabres for less than that. I can see why people are walking away from that.

Agreed. There is a finite amount of entertainment cash and with tickets already paid for... some of it won't be there for another tournament.

Granted, if the Sabres weren't riding the injury wave to a shot at Couturier, the locals might be a bit more into it too.

 

[BlackAces*]

I would love it more if MORE people found it affordable to fill the rink and give all these kids the experience of a packed house that they deserve.

Selfishly speaking, it would be fun to watch this tournament and see how our boys do in a hostile environment for once.

Seriously, I find that just as fun. When the Penguins won in 2009, they closed out every series on the road...I loved it.

 

[Chainshot]

Agreed. Just stupid. You know organizers were banking on Canadians paying that price, because we will. However, we are talking about amateur athletes here, and growing the tournament in the US, making the most money shouldn't have been primary goal. You can make a lot of money, rather than an obscene amount of money, and create a better atmosphere.

This--this--this. Raising the exposure of the game at this level is what I would like it to be all about... and all that increase exposure can do for the game both locally and nationally.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

It is clear that there is price gouging going on -- the Canada-Czech game tomorrow is another where the cheapest seats in the rink are $70 for an individual seat and over $100 for almost every other seat. It's clearly being done to drill cash out of Canadian fans and at the same point it scares the locals away because it is more than they are willing to spend.

I have to disgree that it is "gouging:. It is charging what the marker will bare.

Like I said, most Canadians would not blink at these prices.

 

[BlackAces*]

This--this--this. Raising the exposure of the game at this level is what I would like it to be all about... and all that increase exposure can do for the game both locally and nationally.

Given that the US is the defending champions, it really seems to be an opportunity lost.