Value of: Wolverine er....Shea Weber at 50% to NSH

[DarthProbert]

Why would Montreal want to pay him? Why would Montreal help Nashville out?

My reaction as well

Because if they retain salary, which they can afford to do, they can command a bigger return for him.

 

[DarthProbert]

Nashville has reason to convince him to ltir, Montreal doesn't

He makes a million per his last 3 seasons. If he's on Nashville's roster, I don't think they care if he LTIRs, plays 7th D/pressbox, actually plays as well as a 6th D or better, or just refuses an assignement to the AHL for the suspension.

 

[ole ole]

Lol, no that's dog ****. I would trade a conditional 7th round pick or future considerations six years from now, if Montreal wants anything more they can take a hike.

You keep your lousy offer and we'll award you a recapture penalty at the same time.

 

[ole ole]

His career is over... er.....5-6 weeks... er...a week. Greg Wyshynski joked it was like Wolverine but when I was working as an athletic trainer, I had the same thing happen to an athlete. She heard a loud snap, felt like she broke a bone, was scar tissue breaking up near a nerve. Painful.

ANYWAY.

I'll be honest with you. I think Shea Weber would be the best fit for some of the minor needs that the Preds have. What would the cost be of Weber at 50%?

We would never offer Weber at 50 % so it's a no go from the Habs.
The Habs hold all the cards when it comes to Weber.

 

[ole ole]

That is petty, unbusiness like, and at that point 'tit for tat' occurs. You may not believe it but GMs follow rules, unwritten ones. If I'm a GM for Nashville and Montreal does that I'm complaining to the commish. Saying 'We didn't form the contract! We had our hands tied by Philly! It was an offer sheet!' It would be similar to a 'constitutional crisis' with the CBA. If complaining to the NHL central office does not work and the Preds have to chuck salary, I'm sending as much as I can... ALL to Atlantic rivals.

"Say! Boston! You need a Defenseman? Tampa Bay! I have a forward that would be perfect for hurting Montreal, I mean, filling out your lineup.' and so on. and so on.

Fill the Nashville roster with goons for the first Habs game with money on the board for ending Habs careers.

You see, the above actions would cost the NHL in valuation, money one team falls, the league falls. ALL teams would lose valuation. The teams are in league with each other. Nashville sucks for a couple of years till FA money is spent and draft picks move up the system. The Atlantic become hell for the Habs and they never will get a sniff of the playoffs with Quebec's tax structure and every other team in the Atlantic strong. Nashville is hurt for 3 years maybe 5, Montreal, a half decade or more? It would be Mutually Assured Destruction in hockey. Who else is hurt? The metro. So many Atlantic clubs hogging the WC spots.

That's petty and Bettman has been weeding that out for his entire tenure. The NHL boys club used to be child-like. Fist fights in board rooms, gambling, other child like crap. For the Habs, to do that would be a loss of it's carefully crafted image of class. EVERY GM learns they can't do business with Montreal. EVERY player learns that the Habs will not fulfill their contracts, their promises.

The only winners would be lawyers. But that is me rambling using my college classes in business law, sports law, sports medicine, ETC.

Now, back to the question at hand. What is the value of Shea Weber at 50%?

GM follow rules. Remember the offer sheet.It will be tit for tat and we hold the cards.

 

[Soundgarden]

You keep your lousy offer and we'll award you a recapture penalty at the same time.

No.

 

[ole ole]

No.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

He makes a million per his last 3 seasons. If he's on Nashville's roster, I don't think they care if he LTIRs, plays 7th D/pressbox, actually plays as well as a 6th D or better, or just refuses an assignement to the AHL for the suspension.

Nashville is a cap team when they compete, or close to it

 

[Qwijibo]

That is petty, unbusiness like, and at that point 'tit for tat' occurs. You may not believe it but GMs follow rules, unwritten ones. If I'm a GM for Nashville and Montreal does that I'm complaining to the commish. Saying 'We didn't form the contract! We had our hands tied by Philly! It was an offer sheet!' It would be similar to a 'constitutional crisis' with the CBA. If complaining to the NHL central office does not work and the Preds have to chuck salary, I'm sending as much as I can... ALL to Atlantic rivals.

"Say! Boston! You need a Defenseman? Tampa Bay! I have a forward that would be perfect for hurting Montreal, I mean, filling out your lineup.' and so on. and so on.

Fill the Nashville roster with goons for the first Habs game with money on the board for ending Habs careers.

You see, the above actions would cost the NHL in valuation, money one team falls, the league falls. ALL teams would lose valuation. The teams are in league with each other. Nashville sucks for a couple of years till FA money is spent and draft picks move up the system. The Atlantic become hell for the Habs and they never will get a sniff of the playoffs with Quebec's tax structure and every other team in the Atlantic strong. Nashville is hurt for 3 years maybe 5, Montreal, a half decade or more? It would be Mutually Assured Destruction in hockey. Who else is hurt? The metro. So many Atlantic clubs hogging the WC spots.

That's petty and Bettman has been weeding that out for his entire tenure. The NHL boys club used to be child-like. Fist fights in board rooms, gambling, other child like crap. For the Habs, to do that would be a loss of it's carefully crafted image of class. EVERY GM learns they can't do business with Montreal. EVERY player learns that the Habs will not fulfill their contracts, their promises.

The only winners would be lawyers. But that is me rambling using my college classes in business law, sports law, sports medicine, ETC.

Now, back to the question at hand. What is the value of Shea Weber at 50%?

Lol. This is the most childish response I’ve ever seen on this page. And thats saying something. Montreal isn’t retaining anything on Weber. He’s not being traded. If he retires in a few years, that’s Nashville’s issue with the league, not Montreal’s

 

[Sota Popinski]

GM follow rules. Remember the offer sheet.It will be tit for tat and we hold the cards.

What is with you and holding cards?

 

[ole ole]

What is with you and holding cards?

If you don't understand than trying to explain something so simple to you would be completely useless.

 

[glenngineer]

Serious question:

1. An NHL team cannot spend more than a certain percentage of their salary cap space on any one player in any given season based on the salary cap hit.
2. If Weber were to retire in the last year of his deal, his cap hit would be north of $24 million for the season.

With these two things in play, how does the NHL and the PA handle this? Does one piece override the other? Do they break it up? Will the salary cap go up enough so it covers the percentage of $24+ million cap hit?

 

[ole ole]

Serious question:

1. An NHL team cannot spend more than a certain percentage of their salary cap space on any one player in any given season based on the salary cap hit.
2. If Weber were to retire in the last year of his deal, his cap hit would be north of $24 million for the season.

With these two things in play, how does the NHL and the PA handle this? Does one piece override the other? Do they break it up? Will the salary cap go up enough so it covers the percentage of $24+ million cap hit?

That is why it's called a recapture PENALTY.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Nashville simply doesn't have the movable assets that get Weber at 50%.

That is petty, unbusiness like, and at that point 'tit for tat' occurs. You may not believe it but GMs follow rules, unwritten ones. If I'm a GM for Nashville and Montreal does that I'm complaining to the commish. Saying 'We didn't form the contract! We had our hands tied by Philly! It was an offer sheet!' It would be similar to a 'constitutional crisis' with the CBA. If complaining to the NHL central office does not work and the Preds have to chuck salary, I'm sending as much as I can... ALL to Atlantic rivals.

"Say! Boston! You need a Defenseman? Tampa Bay! I have a forward that would be perfect for hurting Montreal, I mean, filling out your lineup.' and so on. and so on.

Fill the Nashville roster with goons for the first Habs game with money on the board for ending Habs careers.

You see, the above actions would cost the NHL in valuation, money one team falls, the league falls. ALL teams would lose valuation. The teams are in league with each other. Nashville sucks for a couple of years till FA money is spent and draft picks move up the system. The Atlantic become hell for the Habs and they never will get a sniff of the playoffs with Quebec's tax structure and every other team in the Atlantic strong. Nashville is hurt for 3 years maybe 5, Montreal, a half decade or more? It would be Mutually Assured Destruction in hockey. Who else is hurt? The metro. So many Atlantic clubs hogging the WC spots.

That's petty and Bettman has been weeding that out for his entire tenure. The NHL boys club used to be child-like. Fist fights in board rooms, gambling, other child like crap. For the Habs, to do that would be a loss of it's carefully crafted image of class. EVERY GM learns they can't do business with Montreal. EVERY player learns that the Habs will not fulfill their contracts, their promises.

The only winners would be lawyers. But that is me rambling using my college classes in business law, sports law, sports medicine, ETC.

Now, back to the question at hand. What is the value of Shea Weber at 50%?

This is by far the dumbest predicted response to a Weber recapture scenario I have heard. I mean, the complaining to the NHL that a team had no choice but match an offer signed by a free agent is weird (but common), but I can't imagine that there's any college course that teaches you that you should complain about the application of rules you knew about when you gave up control of a player, burning your entire organization to the ground and planning personal harm to uninvolved individuals to spite another organization for not acquiescing to your needs because you want them to (and no other incentive). That sounds more like it was learned from a mob movie.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Thread started off bad and somehow went even further downhill. If Preds see Weber as a need than they would pay market value with no retention, but aren't paying any premiums on top of that. Weber's eventual decision to LTIR or retire and however the league will enforce the recapture penalty are beyond the Preds control. Delusions that we're going to get pinned in a corner and give up top prospects or lottery picks to then convince him to not retire are just that.

 

[North Cole]

That is petty, unbusiness like, and at that point 'tit for tat' occurs. You may not believe it but GMs follow rules, unwritten ones. If I'm a GM for Nashville and Montreal does that I'm complaining to the commish. Saying 'We didn't form the contract! We had our hands tied by Philly! It was an offer sheet!' It would be similar to a 'constitutional crisis' with the CBA. If complaining to the NHL central office does not work and the Preds have to chuck salary, I'm sending as much as I can... ALL to Atlantic rivals.

"Say! Boston! You need a Defenseman? Tampa Bay! I have a forward that would be perfect for hurting Montreal, I mean, filling out your lineup.' and so on. and so on.

Fill the Nashville roster with goons for the first Habs game with money on the board for ending Habs careers.

You see, the above actions would cost the NHL in valuation, money one team falls, the league falls. ALL teams would lose valuation. The teams are in league with each other. Nashville sucks for a couple of years till FA money is spent and draft picks move up the system. The Atlantic become hell for the Habs and they never will get a sniff of the playoffs with Quebec's tax structure and every other team in the Atlantic strong. Nashville is hurt for 3 years maybe 5, Montreal, a half decade or more? It would be Mutually Assured Destruction in hockey. Who else is hurt? The metro. So many Atlantic clubs hogging the WC spots.

That's petty and Bettman has been weeding that out for his entire tenure. The NHL boys club used to be child-like. Fist fights in board rooms, gambling, other child like crap. For the Habs, to do that would be a loss of it's carefully crafted image of class. EVERY GM learns they can't do business with Montreal. EVERY player learns that the Habs will not fulfill their contracts, their promises.

The only winners would be lawyers. But that is me rambling using my college classes in business law, sports law, sports medicine, ETC.

Now, back to the question at hand. What is the value of Shea Weber at 50%?

Based on the sheer extremism alone, I assume this satire...

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

His career is over... er.....5-6 weeks... er...a week. Greg Wyshynski joked it was like Wolverine but when I was working as an athletic trainer, I had the same thing happen to an athlete. She heard a loud snap, felt like she broke a bone, was scar tissue breaking up near a nerve. Painful.

ANYWAY.

I'll be honest with you. I think Shea Weber would be the best fit for some of the minor needs that the Preds have. What would the cost be of Weber at 50%?

would be rather smart to get him back... treat him like a royal king so he would agree to ltir at the end... and work down that insane recapture penalty with a few years of caphit too

getting him at 50% probably isnt too smart... they would be better off trying to reduce that cap recapture liability

luckily hes one guy that is likely to be worth the caphit going forward. he plays very similar to zdeno chara who has stayed very valuable to 40 and beyond.

big bruising smart defensively committed hard working big shooting dmen age well.

its dmen that rely on speed that fall off the face of the earth

if im a rebuilding montreal team... I keep a leader like this around for the kids to learn from

If im Nashville... I probably feel their 3 headed beast on d is good enough without weber... but if I am bringing weber back im trading one of those other big three

montreal might be willing to do a 1-1 and get the younger guy? it would kind of just be a reversal of the pk trade...

for cap reasons... it might make sense... but im not too sure id do it for other reasons

 

[glenngineer]

That is why it's called a recapture PENALTY.

Thanks for not answering the question. These two pieces can’t both happen as they contradict one another. How does the NHL handle that?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Thanks for not answering the question. These two pieces can’t both happen as they contradict one another. How does the NHL handle that?

Penalties aren't actual spending. The team doesn't owe a player that money, they just can't use it under the cap.

 

[mattyboy]

Penalties aren't actual spending. The team doesn't owe a player that money, they just can't use it under the cap.

And recapture penalties cannot be retained or traded.
It's solely on Nashville when the time will come.
MTL owes nothing to Nashville.
Also, recapture penalties don't follow same rules as normal contracts do with respect to max allowed % of cap going towards to one player.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Serious question:

1. An NHL team cannot spend more than a certain percentage of their salary cap space on any one player in any given season based on the salary cap hit.
2. If Weber were to retire in the last year of his deal, his cap hit would be north of $24 million for the season.

With these two things in play, how does the NHL and the PA handle this? Does one piece override the other? Do they break it up? Will the salary cap go up enough so it covers the percentage of $24+ million cap hit?

There will be a new CBA at that point, so it doesn't really matter what the current rules are. Plus David Poile already has assurances from the league that nothing like that maximum recapture will ever be applied to the Predators. Those two things make it rather moot to try dissecting interpretations right now. They'll deal with the details if and when the time comes, but don't need to spend time on it or publicize anything now when Weber's retirement is just a hypothetical.

 

[Gaud]

would be rather smart to get him back... treat him like a royal king so he would agree to ltir at the end... and work down that insane recapture penalty with a few years of caphit too

getting him at 50% probably isnt too smart... they would be better off trying to reduce that cap recapture liability

luckily hes one guy that is likely to be worth the caphit going forward. he plays very similar to zdeno chara who has stayed very valuable to 40 and beyond.

big bruising smart defensively committed hard working big shooting dmen age well.

its dmen that rely on speed that fall off the face of the earth

if im a rebuilding montreal team... I keep a leader like this around for the kids to learn from

If im Nashville... I probably feel their 3 headed beast on d is good enough without weber... but if I am bringing weber back im trading one of those other big three

montreal might be willing to do a 1-1 and get the younger guy? it would kind of just be a reversal of the pk trade...

for cap reasons... it might make sense... but im not too sure id do it for other reasons

Fair assessment, i guess, but I think the assets he could bring in now would have more impact than his leadership would. There are plenty of grizzled veterans we could tag onto the team that wouldnt cost nearly as much. I am thinking Thompson is doing great work with Evans and Suzuki, for example.

also, i didnt see anyone discuss options in terms of a recapture. Is it possible to make trades in order to have other teams swallow up some of that penalty? It means possibly that you wont hve many picks in the next few years, but it may be preferable to having to sell your core.

 

[Hockey Stick]

He makes a million per his last 3 seasons. If he's on Nashville's roster, I don't think they care if he LTIRs, plays 7th D/pressbox, actually plays as well as a 6th D or better, or just refuses an assignement to the AHL for the suspension.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he makes 1 mil in real dollars, but the cap hit stays the same till the end of his contract

 

[ThirdManIn]

No thanks.

 

[Agalloch]

First round pick 2020 (unprotected), Tolvanen, Tomasino