Recalled/Assigned: Wolanin down, Englund up

[solidprospect]

Yeah... without even having seen a recent Belleville game, I am going to call BS on that.

Throw him in the mix for possible 5-6-7 defenceman, we have many of them. He's probably not saying he's better than Wolanin or Brannstrom but just acknowledging improvement.

 

[solidprospect]

Maybe he was so horrific that any ground gained appeared much more striking in a relative sense than anyone else’s.

Time to see what we have, after being drafted in 2014 and playing 3 years in the minors, a similar path as Harpur. Players need 1, 2 or 3 years in the minors until given up on or given a chance.

If anything they're trying to avoid blaming the better defenceman with a bad giveaway last night but that's difficult while sending him down.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Funny, Mann the very respected Belleville coach says he is the most improved player on his roster this yr but we won't believe that because Englund is a stay at home defensive defenceman & people hate those kinds of players on here. We only believe him when he says something good about the "skilled" players that are so admired on here. Somebody has to clear the front of the net, somebody has to separate opposing forwards from the puck, someone has to play defensively against the other team's big tough skilled forwards in the NHL, you can't have all your D be small soft skilled defencemen. Look at Toronto's defence & how soft they are, you need some bigger guys to handle the physical play or they are just so easy to play against.

LOL.

The Leafs defensemen who have played this year average 6'2.5 and 207.4 lbs. They are not small. Probably one of the bigger groups overall in the NHL. They are easy to play against because many of those players are bad at hockey.

Kind of like Andreas Englund has been bad for the most part.

 

[Alex1234]

Belleville need a puck moving D since Branstrom is hurt per tsn1200

 

[aragorn]

I think it has more to do with Englund being very bad. We all know how great a guy like Hogberg has been playing becoming one of the best goalies in the A. Brown and Paul are now dominant players as well.

Let's be honest, Mann is auditioning for a NHL coaching job. That job is going to involve towing the company line and saying the right things for his GM and owner. That's how these guys operate. Just a few weeks ago, I was at a Belleville game and englund got benched in the third for his poor play.

Englund was called up because he's the weaklink on the AHL roster who's playing a do or die game on Wednesday and they need Wolanin as a ringer. He was losing ice time to Murray and Carlisle over the past week. He didn't over night become a NHL calibre player.

I am fully aware of everyone in the same org towing the company line but that's your opinion & you are welcome to it. Englund has been around for a few yrs now & as they say, defencemen take longer to develop more often. I'm not saying he is going to stick in the NHL I have no idea but there are a few things to take note of. Boro will most likely be in the last yr of his contract next season at 29 yrs old, I would guess he should be moved at next season's deadline to a playoff contender for depth & the other defensive defencemen in their org are older & career AHL players. Ceci could get moved in the off season & they would be losing two of the guys they use as shutdown D.

I imagine most here think that shutdown D are also a thing of the past & only want all PMD (offensive D) in the lineup & would move Harpur too. While I'm of the opinion that you can't win with all PMD or offensive D in your lineup & they need defensive defencemen who can move players out from in front of the net, separate players from the puck & block shots & hit. If you could have both in the same player that would be great & Ottawa only really has Jaros & Ceci at the moment who can do both & Englund is strictly a shutdown D. I gonna go out on a limb & say that seeing how Englund is a RFA that Ott does re-sign him even if he plays mostly in Belleville next yr.

 

[aragorn]

LOL.

The Leafs defensemen who have played this year average 6'2.5 and 207.4 lbs. They are not small. Probably one of the bigger groups overall in the NHL. They are easy to play against because many of those players are bad at hockey.

Kind of like Andreas Englund has been bad for the most part.

I called them soft not small.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I am fully aware of everyone in the same org towing the company line but that's your opinion & you are welcome to it. Englund has been around for a few yrs now & as they say, defencemen take longer to develop more often. I'm not saying he is going to stick in the NHL I have no idea but there are a few things to take note of. Boro will most likely be in the last yr of his contract next season at 29 yrs old, I would guess he should be moved at next season's deadline to a playoff contender for depth & the other defensive defencemen in their org are older & career AHL players. Ceci could get moved in the off season & they would be losing two of the guys they use as shutdown D.

I imagine most here think that shutdown D are also a thing of the past & only want all PMD (offensive D) in the lineup & would move Harpur too. While I'm of the opinion that you can't win with all PMD or offensive D in your lineup & they need defensive defencemen who can move players out from in front of the net, separate players from the puck & block shots & hit. If you could have both in the same player that would be great & Ottawa only really has Jaros & Ceci at the moment who can do both & Englund is strictly a shutdown D. I gonna go out on a limb & say that seeing how Englund is a RFA that Ott does re-sign him even if he plays mostly in Belleville next yr.

Your big mistake here is thinking that Englund is a shutdown D. He's not shutting anyone down. When he's on the ice, it's easier for the other team to pin us in our end by attacking him and exploiting his lack of skill and ability to skate, like Mark Borowiecki in Ottawa. The way the NHL is played today, the best defenders are now are not ones who are physically imposing but ones who can cover the most ice the quickest to counter other team's quick offensive players. Puck skills are more important as well because of that speed and the pace of a NHL forecheck. If you give away the puck easily like Englund or Boro, you're really not shutting anyone down but a major source of offense for the other team.

 

[solidprospect]

boro has only 112 giveaways in 321 games, 24 this season.

 

[aragorn]

Your big mistake here is thinking that Englund is a shutdown D. He's not shutting anyone down. When he's on the ice, it's easier for the other team to pin us in our end by attacking him and exploiting his lack of skill and ability to skate, like Mark Borowiecki in Ottawa. The way the NHL is played today, the best defenders are now are not ones who are physically imposing but ones who can cover the most ice the quickest to counter other team's quick offensive players. Puck skills are more important as well because of that speed and the pace of a NHL forecheck. If you give away the puck easily like Englund or Boro, you're really not shutting anyone down but a major source of offense for the other team.

That's nonsense, of course he is a shutdown D & that's exactly how they play him, you are not the only one who has seen him live. Again, I'm not saying he will ever be good enough to make the NHL but IMO I think it's still too early to say given the changes that are coming with this defence.

People keep bringing up Boro yet the guy has over 300 NHL games to his credit & this org loves him. Look around the league there are plenty of shutdown D in the NHL & there are plenty of big D guys who can skate coming out of junior leagues around the world who also have puck skills. We also see these supposed players with puck skills make all kinds of mistakes too & get pushed around & can't stop big opposing players but that rarely gets mentioned because of the constant negative narrative against players like Boro, yet coaches keep him in the lineup. No one is saying they are the best players on the team, they are not & it's the worse team in the NHL so there has to be improvements made & these guys could be gone. But at the same time there are also skilled players on this team who should be shipped out too because they are too easy to play against & are terrible defensively.

 

[stempniaksen]

boro has only 112 giveaways in 321 games, 24 this season.

Someone that plays Boro's style typically shouldn't have all that many giveaways given that he's not the one breaking the puck out most of the time. He's pretty good at chipping it off the glass and out (which isn't a giveaway, but also not conducive to puck possession and creating offence).

He's also last in takeaways (20+ games played), which is kind of surprising given how physical he can be at the best of times.

EDIT: Ah I lied about least amount of takeaways, technically Balcers and Pyatt are behind him.

 

[aragorn]

boro has only 112 giveaways in 321 games, 24 this season.

I guess the fact that he plays on the PK most of the time against the other team's best players on the worse team in the NHL doesn't mean anything. Another example of stats that are skewed against a player without all the facts ever being brought up including the other 19 players on the team who are suppose to help prevent goals as well as score them. Not to worry though, it's probably going to be Boro's last yr next season & soon you will need a new scapegoat. No way it could be because the skilled players aren't winning games for this franchise, NO, it's all the fault of the 3rd pairing 6th D-man.

 

[bert]

Agreed. Not sure why it hasn't been done yet. Unless Boedker is hurt?

I honestly think Balcers needs to go down irregardless of any situation, he simply isnt ready for the NHL he loses way too many battles.

 

[stempniaksen]

I guess the fact that he plays on the PK most of the time against the other team's best players on the worse team in the NHL doesn't mean anything. Another example of stats that are skewed against a player without all the facts ever being brought up including the other 19 players on the team who are suppose to help prevent goals as well as score them. Not to worry though, it's probably going to be Boro's last yr next season & soon you will need a new scapegoat. No way it could be because the skilled players aren't winning games for this franchise, NO, it's all the fault of the 3rd pairing 6th D-man.

That stat lacks (a tremendous amount of) context though. Typically the guys who lead teams in giveaways are the best players and guys counted on to break the puck out and provide offence. Some of the guys near the op of the league in giveaways are some of the very best players.

Heck, just on the Sens alone 2 of the top-five in giveaways are some of our best/most important players. Chabot is 1st by a decent margin and Stone is 5th (despite not counting his games for the Golden Knights).

I mean, it's certainly good that Boro doesn't have that many giveaways, but given his role and play style it's also not that surprising.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

That's nonsense, of course he is a shutdown D & that's exactly how they play him, you are not the only one who has seen him live. Again, I'm not saying he will ever be good enough to make the NHL but IMO I think it's still too early to say given the changes that are coming with this defence.

People keep bringing up Boro yet the guy has over 300 NHL games to his credit & this org loves him. Look around the league there are plenty of shutdown D in the NHL & there are plenty of big D guys who can skate coming out of junior leagues around the world who also have puck skills. We also see these supposed players with puck skills make all kinds of mistakes too & get pushed around & can't stop big opposing players but that rarely gets mentioned because of the constant negative narrative against players like Boro, yet coaches keep him in the lineup. No one is saying they are the best players on the team, they are not & it's the worse team in the NHL so there has to be improvements made & these guys could be gone. But at the same time there are also skilled players on this team who should be shipped out too because they are too easy to play against & are terrible defensively.

Saying someone is a shutdown D implies that they have the ability to actually shut down other offensive players. That's not Englund. He's not used like that. He's not out there defending leads against top forwards. He's sheltered and played against 3rd and 4th lines.

We wouldn't call a guy an offensive D man if he didn't produce points. You're using labels as if they are entirely meaningless. He's a 5/6 AHL Dman who can kill penalties (on the worst PKing team in the A) with little room for growth due to the lack of hockey skills.

Go ahead and bring up Boro and how the organization. There's a reason that the Sens are the worst team in hockey by a huge margin the past 2 years. Here's your sign.

 

[topshelf15]

You need physical players ,but they also need to be able to make a pass and skate.....I like Jaros for this,and in a very raw way Harpur

 

[solidprospect]

Someone that plays Boro's style typically shouldn't have all that many giveaways given that he's not the one breaking the puck out most of the time. He's pretty good at chipping it off the glass and out (which isn't a giveaway, but also not conducive to puck possession and creating offence).

He's also last in takeaways (20+ games played), which is kind of surprising given how physical he can be at the best of times.

EDIT: Ah I lied about least amount of takeaways, technically Balcers and Pyatt are behind him.

He's a seperator breaking up plays by hitting the puck carrier, it's generally up to the supporting forward or defenceman to pick up the puck if they can after that depending on where it goes or Boro to get it out if he can.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

A little throwback with some added context to the Englund pick in 2014 for those who don't remember. We failed to get a 1st rounder in the Spezza deal, and we had dealt our 1st rounder (eventually became 10th overall) away in the Ryan deal. Englund was sold as a proxy 1st round pick.

__________

Senators assistant general manager Pierre Dorion says the organization was “extremely happy” to acquire Englund. While Englund was ranked 46th in The Hockey News scouting lists, Dorion says the Senators had him in the top 20 of their own scouting lists.

“For us, we feel like we left this draft with a first round pick,” said Dorion. “I’ve been scouting for 20 years, I don’t think we could bring in a higher character person into our organization.”

Dorion believes Englund could and should eventually be among the Senators top four defencemen in a few years because he has quiet, natural leadership abilities and matches up well against top opposition players.

“He’s just a guy who plays a North American style of game and we’re excited to bring a guy like that who brings those attributes to the ice.”

Dorion says the Senators have had their eye on Englund for a long time. While he says Englund needs to get stronger, Dorion suggested that he could challenge for a spot on the Senators in two or three seasons.

Senators go to Sweden to get defenceman Andreas Englund

 

[bert]

A little throwback with some added context to the Englund pick in 2014 for those who don't remember. We failed to get a 1st rounder in the Spezza deal, and we had dealt our 1st rounder (eventually became 10th overall) away in the Ryan deal. Englund was sold as a proxy 1st round pick.

__________

Senators assistant general manager Pierre Dorion says the organization was “extremely happy” to acquire Englund. While Englund was ranked 46th in The Hockey News scouting lists, Dorion says the Senators had him in the top 20 of their own scouting lists.

“For us, we feel like we left this draft with a first round pick,” said Dorion. “I’ve been scouting for 20 years, I don’t think we could bring in a higher character person into our organization.”

Dorion believes Englund could and should eventually be among the Senators top four defencemen in a few years because he has quiet, natural leadership abilities and matches up well against top opposition players.

“He’s just a guy who plays a North American style of game and we’re excited to bring a guy like that who brings those attributes to the ice.”

Dorion says the Senators have had their eye on Englund for a long time. While he says Englund needs to get stronger, Dorion suggested that he could challenge for a spot on the Senators in two or three seasons.

Senators go to Sweden to get defenceman Andreas Englund

Every time i hear Dorion speak about character it makes my skin crawl.

 

[Samsquanch]

A little throwback with some added context to the Englund pick in 2014 for those who don't remember. We failed to get a 1st rounder in the Spezza deal, and we had dealt our 1st rounder (eventually became 10th overall) away in the Ryan deal. Englund was sold as a proxy 1st round pick.

__________

Senators assistant general manager Pierre Dorion says the organization was “extremely happy” to acquire Englund. While Englund was ranked 46th in The Hockey News scouting lists, Dorion says the Senators had him in the top 20 of their own scouting lists.

“For us, we feel like we left this draft with a first round pick,” said Dorion. “I’ve been scouting for 20 years, I don’t think we could bring in a higher character person into our organization.”

Dorion believes Englund could and should eventually be among the Senators top four defencemen in a few years because he has quiet, natural leadership abilities and matches up well against top opposition players.

“He’s just a guy who plays a North American style of game and we’re excited to bring a guy like that who brings those attributes to the ice.”

Dorion says the Senators have had their eye on Englund for a long time. While he says Englund needs to get stronger, Dorion suggested that he could challenge for a spot on the Senators in two or three seasons.

Senators go to Sweden to get defenceman Andreas Englund

I remember this clearly. Its funny because the more closely that you look at it, the more you can tell that Dorion is just basically a professional bullshit artist.

Dont get me wrong, Im sure he liked the pick at the time. But he's always spinning things and embellishing the point hes trying to make by adding in some made up BS.

Hes basically the last person I would trust for an honest opinion at this point in time, and he reminds a lot of a greasy politician.

 

[Deku]

I remember this clearly. Its funny because the more closely that you look at it, the more you can tell that Dorion is just basically a professional bull**** artist.

Dont get me wrong, Im sure he liked the pick at the time. But he's always spinning things and embellishing the point hes trying to make by adding in some made up BS.

Hes basically the last person I would trust for an honest opinion at this point in time, and he reminds a lot of a greasy politician.

Yeah, the stuff about his character, NA style of play, and performing well against top players are all fine, but then he has to go and throw in "We basically got a 1st rounder", "he'll challenge for a spot in 2/3 years", and turn the character aspect into "the best I've seen in 20 years". The man is a human hype machine.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Most improved player award always goes to the most brutal player on the team.
I find Englund a lot like Boro .. matches his skills and is a heart and soul kind of guy .. that does his thing with few natural gifts.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Every time i hear Dorion speak about character it makes my skin crawl.

mostly because he has none

 

[Xspyrit]

I remember this clearly. Its funny because the more closely that you look at it, the more you can tell that Dorion is just basically a professional bull**** artist.

Dont get me wrong, Im sure he liked the pick at the time. But he's always spinning things and embellishing the point hes trying to make by adding in some made up BS.

Hes basically the last person I would trust for an honest opinion at this point in time, and he reminds a lot of a greasy politician.

Do you guys really expect things to be different? Dorion is a scout (and now a GM by default) but it means he is also a hope seller. Why would he draft a guy he doesn’t believe in? Why would he say “bah, we got this guy whatever”. I’m pretty sure drafting a guy that was “higher on our list” is something that happens quite a lot in the NHL. We know for a fact that every team has vastly different lists

Let’s not be too naive. Englund just didn’t developped as hoped; this is also something that happens quite a lot

 

[Micklebot]

Most improved player award always goes to the most brutal player on the team.
I find Englund a lot like Boro .. matches his skills and is a heart and soul kind of guy .. that does his thing with few natural gifts.

When you are at the bottom, the only way to go is up