WJC: Dec 31 GDT - Russia vs. Finland

Joretus

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True. But it seems like finnish fans usually overrate young goaltenders far more that other young players.

Well when it comes to down to WJC the reason is simple because we are most of years dominated against most of top teams. So goalies are getting more spotlight.

Like this year, there isn't much of players who should be hyped, ie. Joensuu had his hype before, but outside of 3-4 forwards&defs I don't see other players than Rask making it to NHL for more than just visiting.

And of course goaltending is the only area where we are producing good players in NHL level with wide marginal. Another type of player is those Hagman type of players, but ie. top notch offensive talent is VERY rare. So maybe ppl are just getting a bit of the topic or hyping too much because at least in that area we are doing something more than in another areas.
 

An Ape called Yoko

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True. But it seems like finnish fans usually overrate young goaltenders far more that other young players.

Excuse my intrusion, but how does Helenius stand up against Rask?

There is no argue that FInland is great at producing talented goalkeepers.. but i think some of you are right about this one.. you seem to hype them too much. Thats my two cents.. Gl against the US. I think you are going to need it. They have got wind in their sails now after that OT-win against Sweden.
 

Joretus

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Excuse my intrusion, but how does Helenius stand up against Rask?

Rask have better potential. I would put Helenius with Toivonen and some others, but Helenius should have potential to be good NHL goalie, but nothing special imho.

And as I did say goalies are only part of the 6 games in the ice which Finland is producing good talents atm so it's normal some ppl are overhyping them. Then again atm. we do have a lot of good goalies. Finland have clearly biggest rate goalies/all players of big nations in NHL.
 

Joretus

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Laakso, Lingren...?

I think Osala could make it to NHL since Caps aren't too loaded with talent. Lehtonen with good attitude as well. The point is, there isn't much of talent compared to other top teams.
 

Joretus

Guest
About goalies. About 25%(at least over 20%) of NHL'ers from Finland are goalies. And there is young talents coming up as well.
 

statistics

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Dec 29, 2006
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Out of these goalies Lehtonen was the only goaltender who was better than Rask at the same age. Were the other ones even sarters on their respective SM-liiga teams at age of 18?

Toskala (born 1977) was Ilves starter in 1995-1996 season.

Noronen (born 1979) was Tappara's starter in 1997-1998 season.

Ahonen (born 1981) played 24 regular season (+ was 14 times backup, total 38 games) and played all 6 EHL games for HIFK in 1999-2000. Ahonen also played 2 SM-liiga playoffs games (+ was backup 7 times, total 9 games).
 

Joretus

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Laakso is a good example who should get more recognation (aside from EeroSennin ;) )

Lindgren is hyped in Finland, but is underrated generally on HF.

There isn't much of Dallas fans in these boards I think. At least their own place is quite empty.

Laakso is 3rd rounder so he isn't getting the hype 1-2rounders are getting.

While Laakso is better than mostly said, I think it's same time showing our lack of depth when it comes to defs who can play overally very well. Like in this team he is far too away of others when it comes to general playing.
 

Joe MacMillan

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Aug 10, 2005
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Toskala (born 1977) was Ilves starter 1995-1996 season.

Noronen (born 1979) was Tappara's starter in 1997-1998 season.

Ahonen (born 1981) played 24 regular season (+ was 14 times backup, total 38 games) and played all 6 EHL games for HIFK in 1999-2000. Ahonen also played 2 playoffs games (+ was backup 7 times, total 9 games).

I cant find stats anywhere. How did they perform?
 

Joe MacMillan

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Aug 10, 2005
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Toskala (born 1977) was Ilves starter in 1995-1996 season.

Noronen (born 1979) was Tappara's starter in 1997-1998 season.

Ahonen (born 1981) played 24 regular season (+ was 14 times backup, total 38 games) and played all 6 EHL games for HIFK in 1999-2000. Ahonen also played 2 SM-liiga playoffs games (+ was backup 7 times, total 9 games).

Toskala: .902 SV%, 18/19 years old, 37 games.

Noronen: .900 SV%, 18/19 years old, 31 games.

Ahonen: .901 SV %, 18/19 years old, 24 games.

Rask: .926 SV%, 18/19 years old, 30 games.

:snide:
 

statistics

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Dec 29, 2006
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Toskala: .902 SV%, 18/19 years old, 37 games.

Noronen: .900 SV%, 18/19 years old, 31 games.

Ahonen: .901 SV %, 18/19 years old, 24 games.

Rask: .926 SV%, 18/19 years old, 30 games.

:snide:

OK, Rask is little bit better than decent talent. But I don't think Rask is going to be top 10 goalie in the NHL ever.

Please, use 92.6% instead .926%.
 

Joe MacMillan

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Aug 10, 2005
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Yes, Finland was worse, but people are giving way too much credit for the Russians when in fact they didn't really have to perform any kind of miracles (and they didn't, not on even stregth). Whether that was thanks to the ref or Team Finland's weak game is up for debate (I think it was a mixture of bad refereeing 25-30% and weak game from Team Finland 70-75%)...

Give too much credit for the Russians?? How can you not give any credit for the Russians when they simply were controlling the game 60 minutes and did whatever they wanted on the ice?
 

FinnswissX

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May 20, 2005
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I don't think that Rask is overrated, those who pretend this should remember that they only won the bronze medal last year because of him.

I can't watch the games but the problem of the the finnish team is surely not goaltending, but the UNDISCIPLINED play of the skaters.
If you check how many penalties this team in every games receives, you can't blame the goalie that they have to play all the time in penaltykilling and sometimes even 5 against 3. It's no wonder that Rask receives 5 goals against a team like Russia, he surely even played well, otherwise Finland had lost 10-0 with so many penalties.

I don't know but does the finnish coach has so little authority about the players that he can't teach them to play with more DISCIPLINE!

The Finns can't win against strong teams from the penalty box. The players should be intelligent enough to know this or are these only stupid players with no brain? So the FINNS JUST HAVE TO STAY OUT OF THE PENALTY BOX, if they want to win a medal.
 
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statistics

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Dec 29, 2006
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Finland
Im not gonna even predict anything like that since it's way too premature. But I predict he will make it to the NHL, unlike Noronen and Ahonen did.
Both are correct. :p:

In Finland many kendojanari thinks, that Rask is future Vezina winner. OK everything is possible.

92.6% is much better.
 

Panopticon

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Apr 20, 2004
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Laakso is a good example who should get more recognation (aside from EeroSennin ;) )

I just watched the TV games and noticed that he gets a lot of recognition from the Finnish TV announcers as well. They kept blaming him for everything, even Lehtivuori's mistakes when Laakso wasn't even on the ice.

And everyone elses penalties were bad calls or accidents and Laakso's penalties were stupid mistakes. I saw it a bit differently and that's why I noticed it and after I noticed it I just kept hearing more examples and I didn't understand why they had picked him as a target since 90% of the team is playing worse than him.

"Laakso especially needs to be a little sharper out there" after he received the puck poorly (didn't even lose it) and when that happens to anyone else "oh, bad luck for Team Finland"

"That was Seppänen's mistake, but Laakso should've known Seppänen would make it and cover for him"

That last one wasn't an exact quote, more like an exaggeration, but that's what it started sounding to me.

Not once was Mikko Lehtonen criticised for example, even though he was the death of most of our first lines attacks with his stupid blind passes and losing the puck. Lehtonen had a Joensuu quality game IMO.

Sami Sandell and Miika Lahti were the only forwards that played up to my expectations in the Russia game (I just hope that Lahti had a better finish, and he would've scored twice... might have to blame Varlamov for those saves as well), and Jonas Enlund to some extent. Out of the defense, Jalvanti has really surprised me since I thought he would be the weakest d-man on this team, but he's played much better than Lehtivuori and Leinonen for example.
 

ryz

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Dec 24, 2004
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About goalies. About 25%(at least over 20%) of NHL'ers from Finland are goalies. And there is young talents coming up as well.

Not even close to 25% of all NHL goalies are from Finland. Are you saying that 15 of NHL teams top 2 goalies (30 teams x 2 goalies each = 60) are from Finland? Name them.
 

Panopticon

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Apr 20, 2004
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Not even close to 25% of all NHL goalies are from Finland. Are you saying that 15 of NHL teams top 2 goalies (30 teams x 2 goalies each = 60) are from Finland? Name them.


I think you should read what he said again and think about it.
 

Joretus

Guest
OK, Rask is little bit better than decent talent.

Could I just ask what's decent talent? Since if players like Noronen, Rask are decent talents, whats guys who have been drafted after 1st round? Or are only top-10 picks good talents? And maybe Sidney Crosby is even v.good talent? Since if you are saying that Finland haven't had any good talents in ages, well except Lehtonen being only good.

And if only possible Vezina, Art Ross, Hart Trophy winners are considered more than decent talents, then Finland haven't produced much of talents ever.
 
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