With expansion over, what cities are the faves to get a relocated team?

Cor

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Jun 24, 2012
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Why not to put Mexico city instead if the population is the only factor... and whats the name even?
Houston We Have a Problems

It's not about population.

It's also TV Market. Which Houston is in the 5-7 range in the U.S. Meaning, a potential regional TV rights deal for the Houston team would be massive.
 

Cor

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Even if you don't want to call a city a "hockey city", obviously there are cities in the US which want and accept hockey, Atlanta, Arizona, and Florida are three that don't like hockey enough to justify them having a team! Florida for example has bad attendance and many games, half of the people who do show up, are vacationing fans of other teams. They in years past also used to go out into the street on game days and give away many free seats to fill their arena up. I believe the new ownership has stopped this practice.

Florida is a state, and Tampa Bay, right down the road, has no issues what so ever.

Sometimes Quality of Ownership factors in.

Atlanta Thrashers, were a team that made 0 changes. Hardly any to the Hockey Ops. Hardly any to any sort of Marketing. Branding was pretty awful and any sort of third jersey was somehow worse. Not to mention there was a legal battle between ownership and a former part of the ownership which was one of the primary reason they bled dry. Keep in mind, there were also local purchasers who wanted to buy the team to keep it in Atlanta, and the NHL allowed the ownership to sell to True North and relocate the team because they were offering more. Keep in mind that Atlanta for I believe 7 of their 10 seasons as the Thrashers, draw at least 15K in attendance, which would be Winnipeg, Columbus, Anaheim territory.

In terms of the Atlanta Flames, there was MUCH MUCH more than attendance at play there. In fact, the Flames consistently drew 14K fans until their last couple of seasons when it was apparent a move was imminent. The arena the Flames played in also had no sort of luxury suites which is a massive source of revenue. Which was terrible. As Cliff Fletcher said once, their arena was out-dated when it opened.


So would I put another team in Atlanta? Unlikely. Would I ignore a call from an Investor wanting to put a team in Atlanta? Also no. A team in Atlanta can draw 15-16K people. Which is enough to be profitable if ownership knows what they are doing.
 
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Florida is a state, and Tampa Bay, right down the road, has no issues what so ever.

Sometimes Quality of Ownership factors in.

Atlanta Thrashers, were a team that made 0 changes. Hardly any to the Hockey Ops. Hardly any to any sort of Marketing. Branding was pretty awful and any sort of third jersey was somehow worse. Not to mention there was a legal battle between ownership and a former part of the ownership which was one of the primary reason they bled dry. Keep in mind, there were also local purchasers who wanted to buy the team to keep it in Atlanta, and the NHL allowed the ownership to sell to True North and relocate the team because they were offering more. Keep in mind that Atlanta for I believe 7 of their 10 seasons as the Thrashers, draw at least 15K in attendance, which would be Winnipeg, Columbus, Anaheim territory.

In terms of the Atlanta Flames, there was MUCH MUCH more than attendance at play there. In fact, the Flames consistently drew 14K fans until their last couple of seasons when it was apparent a move was imminent. The arena the Flames played in also had no sort of luxury suites which is a massive source of revenue. Which was terrible. As Cliff Fletcher said once, their arena was out-dated when it opened.


So would I put another team in Atlanta? Unlikely. Would I ignore a call from an Investor wanting to put a team in Atlanta? Also no. A team in Atlanta can draw 15-16K people. Which is enough to be profitable if ownership knows what they are doing.

That's kind of ironic.. as that is the Flames current problem to haha.
 

Cor

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That's kind of ironic.. as that is the Flames current problem to haha.

haha I didn't realize that.

Step 1 to building an arena: Put in Luxury Suites that Businesses will pay you too much money for.
 

sabremike

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I just got off the phone with G Gordon Liddy and he has assembled an impressive collection of Latin American mercenaries who are going to attack NHL headquarters, depose Bettman in a coup, install Howard Baldwin as commissioner and bring back the Whalers. As soon as the arms shipment arrives we'll be good to go!
 

WestCoastLife

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Is that why the Winterhawks draw better attendance numbers than most AHL teams?

got news for ya, and I speak from experience because I've attended PWH games... they go because it's an affordable option.

Majority of Portland couldn't afford an NHL game.
 

JianYang

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got news for ya, and I speak from experience because I've attended PWH games... they go because it's an affordable option.

Majority of Portland couldn't afford an NHL game.

How much do they charge for Blazer tickets on average?

I don't think the junior teams are the primary target group for nhl organizations.

In Vancouver for example, the fans going out to giants games are typically not the ones going to see the canucks.
 

powerstuck

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Jan 13, 2012
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I'm rooting for a comeback of the Nordiques obviously. But I have to admit that this City won't ever have a team anymore.

NHL and hockey is a business, and let's face it, bigger markets are available (Houston, Kansas City...) even in Canada (Markham or even a second team in Toronto could work). I'm all for more Canadians teams but not at any price, excepted Toronto, teams in Canada are a mess, Montreal still make big bucks but results speaking it's really bad.

But Winnipeg is the perfect example that a small Canadian city can make it work much better than a big US metro like Atlanta or Phoenix or ...
 

ziggyjoe212

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But Winnipeg is the perfect example that a small Canadian city can make it work much better than a big US metro like Atlanta or Phoenix or ...
I don't think it's fair to compare the Jets to Thrashers or Phoenix. Atl and Phoenix were never good, while the Jets have a legit cup contender with several young stars. Winning builds the fan base and unfortunately the Thrashers and Coyotes never had a chance.
 

ziggyjoe212

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Houston is the no-brainer clear favorite. The potential TV revenue is too big to pass up. NHL is stupid for not pushing to go there decades ago.

KC, Austin, Quebec City, Portland are the runners up.
If the Bucks ever leave Milwuakee, the NHL should def go there. Wisconsin is big on hockey and it doesn't strike me as a place that cares much about the NBA.
 

powerstuck

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I don't think it's fair to compare the Jets to Thrashers or Phoenix. Atl and Phoenix were never good, while the Jets have a legit cup contender with several young stars. Winning builds the fan base and unfortunately the Thrashers and Coyotes never had a chance.

My reply wasn't about ''the quality of the team on ice'' but about the fact that Quebec City, a small Canadian market shouldn't be considered before big US markets like Houston are considered.

Atlanta was top 6 US TV market, Phoenix is top 10 US TV market. Yet Coyotes have about 2000 eyeballs on the TV when they play. TV market size doesn't guarantee success not fandom. The belief that the league as a whole will be much better because there are in a big TV market is just not true.
 

rfournier103

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My vote (and hope) is for Quebec City. Here’s why:

1. Because it’s a hockey crazed city that deserves its own NHL team under COMPETENT ownership.

2. I love all the old Adams Division rivalries. It was much more than the Bruins and Canadiens. Buffalo, Quebec, and even Hartford provided hard-fought hockey slugfests on a regular basis. Those were five teams that despised each other. Why not resurrect one of the fallen flags?

3. It would piss the Montreal Canadiens off.

4. It would piss Bruins ownership off. :)
 

lomiller1

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The main issue for any team right now is arena and arena location. Arenas had been on the outskirts for a long time but in the 90’s they started to move either further out for cheep land and a larger footprint or downtown for easier access but slightly undersized to keep costs down.
It turns out that the slightly undersized downtown arena is by far the best option. The oversized area out in the boonies has been an absolute disaster for teams stuck with it. If you look at any team with chronic issues, most of them have these oversized areas a long way from downtown.
That said Houston is the obvious target. It’s the 4th largest city in the US and the 9th largest CSA (Common Statistical Area), the largest CSA in the US that currently doesn’t have a team. Seattle is in the 13th largest CSA in the US. (Unlike Metropolitan Statistical Area CSA’s can overlap and they are not as tightly coupled as Metro Area but still share a lot of media and economic activity, commuters, etc. For cities that are part of one it’s a good way to look at the potential fans a team can reach in it’s area.)

After that the largest CSA/MSA that don’t have an NHL team are Atlanta (6.6 million in it’s CSA) Cleveland (3.5 million in it’s CSA) Orlando (3.3 million in it’s CSA), San Diego (3.3 million in it’s MSA) and Portland (3.2 million in it’s CSA). So for US relocation these would seem to be the highest priority.

Houston – seems like a perfect fit for a Phoenix move, but I think the NHL wants to be in Phoenix (4.7 million), but they must have a downtown arena.

Atlanta – yah yah yah, but the problems they had were primarily Ownership/Arena. With the right arena and owners I think the NHL jumps at the chance to get back there.

Quebec – arena and established hockey market so it’s an easy move.

Second Toronto team – they’d need to figure out an arena and owner but I think there is enough demand, not just from fans who can’t get Leaf tickets, but the sports networks who own 2/3 of the Leafs would love more Toronto games to broadcast.

Cleveland isn’t growing but it’s more traditional part of the US for hockey, which is probably why you see it mentioned a lot. Could be an interesting relocation target

Orlando I’d think they want to Stabilize Florida (which is in the Miami CSA) but maybe with a better arena location it’d be a good place for the Panthers. Also, Miami could have some issues going forward as it struggles with flooding from rising sea levels so it may not grow as rapidly going forward.

I’ve never really thought about San Diego but I wonder if it could be one of those off the radar cities that could cultivate a good hockey market but I can’t see any current western team moving there.

Portland seems like a good place for a western relocation but other than Phoenix I can’t see any current western team moving. Also, close enough to Seattle that the NHL may not want to go there yet.
 
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I Hate Philadelphia

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The demand is definitely there...it's crazy expensive to score Bruins tickets no matter who they're playing. I could definitely see a second team in Mass at some point. I'd like to see them named for the state rather than the city, if/when it happens.

Worcester has an ECHL team that averaged <4500 fans in a 12k+ seat arena last year...This is never gonna happen
 

justafan22

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Houston and Quebec

Any other location is laughable

Even another GTA team (think hamilton)
 

Jaromir Jagr

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But Winnipeg is the perfect example that a small Canadian city can make it work much better than a big US metro like Atlanta or Phoenix or ...

It's absurd to project one city unto all others. A lot has to do with the owners, success of the on-ice team, etc. Atlanta and Phoenix have never had good teams. Florida (brought up a lot in here) had one competitive team 20 years ago.

Honestly, everyone in this discussion should read this article, because it really gives insight into how you can build a successful franchise in big cites (hint: it takes a lot of effort).

If you just plop a team down and pray it becomes successful, there's not many places that will work.

From Hockey 101 to a Ph.D. in Nashville
 

valeriammm

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Sep 21, 2018
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Why would Alanta ever be considered again? It not only failed twice but its proximity to a successful team in Nashville makes it a no brainer, its already a miracle Nashville is surviving. Not to mention Carolina has a team...
 

tntkid

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Nov 27, 2011
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Quebec has the new arena and fan support.
I am going with them for the next relocation.

Not enough Canadian teams anyway.
 
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Hockey4Lyfe

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Houston is the 5th or 6th most populated metropolitan areas in the entire North American continent. New York, Mexico, Los Angeles and Chicago.

It’s probably the most populus in the US in terms of growth expectation, outside of maybe New York and Los Angeles. Houston and Dallas are continuing to grow and becoming ridiculous with the amount of people moving there.

You’d have to truly screw up to not have a successful franchise in the Houston area.
 
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