OT: Winter Olympics 2014

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Yemack

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Oct 30, 2007
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At this point if Babcock and Canada are beaten by Sweden it will be in a large part because of Wings players. Kronwall and Ericsson were dynamite today. He should know some of those guys tendencies, curious to see what line he wants on them. King Henrik will be huge and is playing as well as anyone in the tournament, I know a lot of people are banking a Canada win, but to be honest the Sweden of the last 30 minutes of their game today was extremely impressive.

Hope Nyquist gets the game winner, lets start building his legend.:)

It would be funny if Nyquist actually gets the winner. 'hey coach, look at this shiny thing I got in sochi' :laugh:

Kronner and E played well today. Almost as good as our last playoff series. It was my first time watching them and there's this odd feeling that I'm watching a different kind of red wings on ice with their poise and the way they execute. It's a real bummer Z is injured cause it could have been a ultimate player vs coach game.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,178
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Tampere, Finland
I collected some scoring chance data from the Olympic games. Same system I've discussed here before. Kind of Fenwick-style system, that takes off free passengers that won't affect for a shot attempt.



Player, Total chances per ice-time Rating - (Goals + Assists + Scoring chances + Created chances + Screened chances = Total) - Ice-time

Team Russia (data from USA, SVK, NOR, FIN games)

C Pavel Datsyuk, 0.455 - (2+4+10+17+2 = 35) - 19:12 minutes average Ice-Time
C Jevgeni Malkin, 0.423 - (0+0+20+14+0 = 34) - 20:16 min
RW Alexander Semin, 0.420 - (0+0+14+10+2 = 26) - 15:30 min
LW Alex Ovechkin, 0.404 - (0+0+22+8+2 = 32) - 19:48 min
RW Alexander Radulov, 0.356 - (2+2+11+5+9 = 29) - 20:42 min
C Artem Anisimov, 0.301 - (0+0+8+9+0 = 17) - 14:16 min
RW Vladimir Tarasenko, 0.275 - (0+1+3+5+0 = 9) - 8:12 min
RW Viktor Tikhonov, 0.228 - (0+1+1+0+0 = 2) - 4:24 min
LW Nikolai Kulemin, 0.217 - (0+0+5+3+5 = 13) - 15:00 min
RW Alexander Popov, 0.193 - (0+0+2+6+2 = 10) - 13:00 min
LW Ilya Kovalchuk, 0.189 - (2+0+9+5+0 = 16) - 21:12 min
C Alexei Tereshenko, 0.150 - (1+0+3+2+0 = 6) - 10:00 min
RW Valeri Nichuskin, 0.121 - (0+0+1+1+1 = 3) - 6:12 min

LhD Andrei Markov, 0.245 - (0+3+8+8+0 = 19) - 19:24 min
LhD Yevgeni Medvedev, 0.239 - (0+0+5+12+0 = 17) - 17:48 min
LhD Alexei Emelin, 0.203 - (0+0+5+6+1 = 12) - 14:48 min
RhD Slava Voynov, 0.152 - (0+0+4+6+1 = 11) - 18:06 min
LhD Nikita Nikitin, 0.095 - (0+0+3+2+0 = 5) - 13:12 min
LhD Fedor Tuytin, 0.091 - (0+0+5+0+0 = 5) - 13.42 min
LhD Anton Belov, 0.053 - (0+0+2+1+0 = 3) - 14:06 min
LhD Ilya Nikulin, 0.000 - (0+0+0+0+0 = 0) - 13.06 min

Just nice figures to see. This system counts only offensive output and nothing else. But Datsyuk's figures are just superb ones compared to others. He has SH time that gives you less offensive ice-time and that lowers that scoring chances/ice-time average. Players who won't play on PK will have an advantage in these ratings against guys who will play on PK. But because Olympics stats site shows only total ice-time per game, I can't rip off the PK time. With NHL stats I would do that as a default.

Still, Datsyuk was a superior player for Russia. He killed penalties, so his rating would be even higher vs. Malkin/Ovechkin etc. without that PK time there.

And he scored actual goals and points. AO/Geno/Semin etc. all had some weird mental problems (maybe home-ice pressure) for scoring. They did have/create chances kind of same rate they do in NHL, but were unavailable to score. Datsyuk wasn't. He scored and was the best player there, 100% condition or not.

This is very promising for Red Wings.

What comes to other Russians, I was very impressed about Alexander Radulov how good he was. Very strong in the corners and in front of the net. Would be a great piano-puller for Datsyuk in NHL. Their chemistry just works.

I was most disappointed for Ilya Kovalchuk's offensive output. Two goals yes, but mostly outside the game without scoring chances. KHL has really ruined this guy.

And Red Wings should sign this 32-year-old Yevgeni Medvedev at next summer. 6'3 great puckmoving defenceman.

***

Jeff Carter is the only Olympic tournament player who has better scoring chances/ice-time rating (0.471) vs. Datsyuk so far in my scoring chance stats.

I'm pretty sure we are just fine after the break. The Magic Man is back. :)

EDIT:

Other Red Wings:

C Pavel Datsyuk, 0.455 - (2+4+10+17+2 = 35) - 19:12 minutes average Ice-Time
C Henrik Zetterberg, 0.329 - (1+0+2+3+0 = 6) - 18:12 min (still the best Swedish center rating)
W Gustav Nyquist, 0.328 - (0+0+3+5+0 = 8) - 6:06 min
RW Daniel Alfredsson, 0.318 - (1+1+8+6+1 = 17) - 13:24 min

D Niklas Kronwall, 0.102 - (0+2+3+3+0 = 8) - 19:36 min
D Jonathan Ericsson, 0.099 (0+1+4+2+0 = 7) - 17:36 min

Still have to collect that Slovakian data....

Erik Karlsson has same level of rating (0.320) like Zeta, Gus, Alfie group as a highest rating of any defenceman. He is just insane offensive weapon. Karlsson creates 3x more of chances in same time vs. Kronner/Ericsson.
 
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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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Your stats really highlight how bad the KHL guys actually were. Could go help defend the Lebrun firestorm on the Olympic thread, though probably not worth how angry everyone would get.
 

we like our team*

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these were the first hockey games ive watched all year and they weren't very exciting
 

sarcastro

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Jul 28, 2005
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There's no shame in losing to Finland, as they're a solid team. But the Russians never looked like they had any idea what they were doing out there. Blame it on coaching, lack of NHL-KHL cohesion/chemistry, politics (KHLers getting too much time with Russia trying to prove something to everyone about how great the KHL is), or what have you.

Thought maybe this might be the US's year with the way they and Canada had been playing, and with Sweden missing so many of their players with injuries. They just couldn't get a goal. Tough game. I'd love to see Sweden take the gold but I think Canada probably has their game in order and I think they'll get it done.
 

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
10,249
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Way more impressed with what Babcock did last year in the playoffs then anything he accomplishes at the Olympics.

The love affair for the olympic golds he has is silly IMO. The teams he coaches internationally are so stacked that I don't see it as as big of an accomplishment as what he does with the Wings in a salary capped league every year.

I mean as big of a USA supporter and fan as there is, but the talent that Canada has at their disposal for any Olympic Games is utterly ridiculous and unmatched by anyone else.

They have the talent to make 2-3 incredible squads. Their primary concern is chemistry, not even "who is the most talented player?" How else does Kunitz get a call for the team?

Ridiculous.
 

Yemack

Registered User
Oct 30, 2007
8,246
5
There's no shame in losing to Finland, as they're a solid team. But the Russians never looked like they had any idea what they were doing out there. Blame it on coaching, lack of NHL-KHL cohesion/chemistry, politics (KHLers getting too much time with Russia trying to prove something to everyone about how great the KHL is), or what have you.

Thought maybe this might be the US's year with the way they and Canada had been playing, and with Sweden missing so many of their players with injuries. They just couldn't get a goal. Tough game. I'd love to see Sweden take the gold but I think Canada probably has their game in order and I think they'll get it done.

team Russia suffers from same problem it had in vancouver, they do not have any poise under the pressure and while they have real high end players, and it doesnt look like they have experience in real strong systematic hockey play. (which is kinda sad considering their older soviet team). Prior to the tournament, I was thinking maybe their strong sense of nationalism maybe enough to get things straightened out but I realized they just didnt have it from the get go.

I think the fall of soviet union, kinda brought this new individualism concept to Russia and their younger generation players really moved as far away from team concept as possible. Whenever I watch ovechkin I always think 'a wicked player that will never win any championship'. Obivously Datsyuk was alive in old soviet era and he had larionov, Fedorov and other guys in Detroit. I know this sounds kinda far fetching but it's just my theory anyway. I never been to Russia or know any russian so maybe pure BS.

And the reason US lost is simple, just look at the line up difference. obviously Babcock did few things right and the players peformed superbly but let's face it, it's not really due to a problem USA program has per say.

I hope USA is ready for tomorrow's game. They look very devastated especially their coach who almost wanted to cry in press conf. After a good night sleep, I think they will be ready though.
 

sarcastro

Registered User
Jul 28, 2005
13,059
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And the reason US lost is simple, just look at the line up difference. obviously Babcock did few things right and the players peformed superbly but let's face it, it's not really due to a problem USA program has per say.

I hope USA is ready for tomorrow's game. They look very devastated especially their coach who almost wanted to cry in press conf. After a good night sleep, I think they will be ready though.

I don't think they care much about the bronze. They were there for gold and anything less would be meaningless. Finland might win it in a romp.

And thanks a bunch, Sochi, for putting the gold medal game on at 7am EST. Awesome. Making absolutely sure that I can't watch a single second of live men's hockey at the Olympics this year. Stellar. I hope they don't go in 2018, or that they listen to Tom Renney's idea and have it be a 22 and under competition.
 

14ari13

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Oct 19, 2006
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The referees for the finals canadians! Is this a joke or what? The whole sports world is going to laugh at this.
 

TeemuS

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Feb 13, 2013
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Eh today i just hope for good game from Finland and GO Leijonat destroy us of a :yo: :yo:
 

FlashyG

Registered User
Dec 15, 2011
4,624
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Toronto
The referees for the finals canadians! Is this a joke or what? The whole sports world is going to laugh at this.

Why? because the best refs in the tournament regardless of nationality are calling the game?

Over half the refs in the tournament are Canadian and they've been a part of calling every game played in during the games.

To this point Canada has had fewer PP opportunities than any other team in the tournament, so its pretty hard to make an argument that they are biased towards Canada.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,178
12,160
Tampere, Finland
I collected some scoring chance data from the Olympic games. Same system I've discussed here before. Kind of Fenwick-style system, that takes off free passengers that won't affect for a shot attempt.

Player, Total chances per ice-time Rating - (Goals + Assists + Scoring chances + Created chances + Screened chances = Total) - Ice-time

Other Red Wings:

C Pavel Datsyuk, 0.455 - (2+4+10+17+2 = 35) - 19:12 minutes average Ice-Time
C Henrik Zetterberg, 0.329 - (1+0+2+3+0 = 6) - 18:12 min (still the best Swedish center rating)
W Gustav Nyquist, 0.328 - (0+0+3+5+0 = 8) - 6:06 min
RW Daniel Alfredsson, 0.318 - (1+1+8+6+1 = 17) - 13:24 min

D Niklas Kronwall, 0.102 - (0+2+3+3+0 = 8) - 19:36 min
D Jonathan Ericsson, 0.099 (0+1+4+2+0 = 7) - 17:36 min

Still have to collect that Slovakian data....

Erik Karlsson has same level of rating (0.320) like Zeta, Gus, Alfie group as a highest rating of any defenceman. He is just insane offensive weapon. Karlsson creates 3x more of chances in same time vs. Kronner/Ericsson.

Team Slovakia:

W Tomas Tatar, 0.309 (1+1+4+13+2 = 21) - 17:00min
average Ice-Time
W Tomas Zaborsky, 0.297 (0+1+7+5+1 = 14) - 15:42min
W Marian Hossa, 0.283 (2+1+15+3+1 = 22) - 19:24min
W Milan Bartovic, 0.227 (0+1+8+3+1 = 13) - 14:18min
C Michal Handzus, 0.212 (0+2+7+5+3 = 17) - 20:02min
W Tomas Jurco, 0.212 (1+0+9+1+1 = 12) - 14:10min

W Richard Panik, 0.148 (0+0+2+4+0 = 6) - 10:08min
W Michel Miklik, 0.146 (0+0+6+0+2 = 8) - 13:40min
C Tomas Surovy, 0.115 (1+0+3+1+1 = 6) - 13:04min
C Tomas Kopecky, 0.097 (0+0+1+0+1 = 2) - 10:20min (got injured on his 2nd game)
W Marcel Hossa, 0.072 (0+0+3+0+0 = 3) - 10:29min
F Branko Radivojevic, 0.020 (0+0+1+0+0 = 1) - 12:36min
C Tomas Marcinko, 0.000 (0+0+0+0+0 = 0) - 9:49min

D Zdeno Chara, 0.138 (0+1+9+3+0 = 13) - 23:31min
D Andrej Sekera, 0.114 (0+2+6+3+0 = 11) - 24:05min
D Rene Vydareny, 0.105 (0+0+0+3+0 = 3) - 14:16min (only 2 games)
D Andrej Meszaros, 0.079 (0+0+4+2+0 = 6) - 18:53min
D Milan Jurcina, 0.072 (0+0+1+0+0 = 1) - 13:53min (only 1 game)
D Martin Marincin, 0.059 (0+0+3+1+0 = 4) - 17:04min
D Ivan Baranka, 0.017 (0+0+1+0+0 = 1) - 19:06min
D Tomas Starosta, 0.000 (0+0+0+0+0 = 0) - 13:43min

Like everybody saw, Tatar had a really great tournament. Also my scoring chance data did back up that eye-test. He really had a great chemistry with Marian Hossa. Hossa was clearly the best player and main force for Slovakia, even though these values "say" that he was only the 3rd best with his offensive output. But, because his PK time lowers his chances/ice-time value, that value is not as correct as it could be. If you estimate 2mins of PK time per game off from Hossa's total ice time, he would have a team-high rating (~0.315). But I'm not gonna do that, because I can't get exact PK ice-times from anywhere.

What was really interesting to see, is this playmaking ability (or willingness) from Tatar. His scoring chance distribution at Red Wings game is exactly like that Hossa-distribution at Olympics. Lots of scoring chances, but not many created chances. At Olympics, Tatar was suddenly a totally different player. I really hope these things will carry from his National team experience to Red Wings games. I hope to see more of this playmaking ability, to make him a more complete player. I like his shooting, but it should not always be a default decision in game situations, like it has been recent NHL games.

Jurco did have some chances and scored one goal, but he was as much behind Tatar in these ratings as he is at Red Wings. There's still some overripening to be done at Griffins. :)

Also this data confirms pretty clearly where those Slovakian National Team problems are. Great "Demitra-level" point-scoring-centers are missing. They have to use those Bottom6 guys and natural wingers at TOP6 and that kills the team.
 
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14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
14,118
1,219
Norway
You sound mad, friend

I've already said In this thread I find Olympic hockey boring. Both games Sweden Finland and USA Canada were very boring games IMO. And now on the top of this the referees. This makes it a circus of the whole tournament. I did not watch Olympic hockey 4 years ago, not a single game. I find this hockey boring. And I am sure I am not going to watch it in 4 years.
But maybe other fans find it exciting. Just my opinion.
 

FlashyG

Registered User
Dec 15, 2011
4,624
38
Toronto
first one was just stupid timing from Timonen. And rule is stupid too

I don't think Timonen was a victim of timing, he knew what he was doing with that stick.

I also have no problem with a rule that says you can't throw or shoot an errant stick at other players.

Its unlikely but this has potential to be a poetic finish for the US team. A late comeback from a 2-0 deficit would go a long way in erasing the defeat in the Women's gold medal game. Even if it is only for bronze.
 
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