Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Discontent III: Discontent with a Vengeance

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Discoverer

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I think the context was they tried to move Bo + Morales (and I'm guessing more) as a part of the deal for Yelich and perhaps different salary coming back (likely a player they could have used, maybe one of the bullpen guys).

Not Bo just to dump Morales.

Yeah, the Jays could have been willing to take on Chen or something with Morales going back the other way so they weren't taking on the full amount. Who the hell knows... but it obviously never would have been Bo purely to dump Morales.
 
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Kurtz

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Average won't win us the world series let alone gain a wild card berth. If that's the outfield, then why keep Donaldson and watch him walk? We won't outbid teams on him as a free agent.

Average won't win us the World Series, but it'll keep us competitive, which is what the management is after at the moment (while they're also building a strong farm for med-long term). Donaldson is kept for now to keep us competitive. We'll deal him at the deadline if we're bad or we'll keep him if we're in the hunt. Given how tight free agent dollars are now, and the wealth of free agents next year, it's entirely possible that there won't be much of a bidding war for JD, in which case the Jays have a chance to retain him.
 

one77

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Thank the baseball gods we still have Vladdy and Bo.

Anybody else think Alford will still make the team despite management clearly looking to acquire another OF? I still have hope...
 

TF97

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Thank the baseball gods we still have Vladdy and Bo.

Anybody else think Alford will still make the team despite management clearly looking to acquire another OF? I still have hope...
Long-term? Yes I absolutely see Alford being a key part should he stick around. This season? I see nearly no chance he makes the team unless one of the outfielders (knock on wood) suffers a catastrophic injury in spring training. Even then, I’m still not sure.
 
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Discoverer

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Long-term? Yes I absolutely see Alford being a key part should he stick around. This season? I see nearly no chance he makes the team unless one of the outfielders (knock on wood) suffers a catastrophic injury in spring training. Even then, I’m still not sure.

There just isn't a lot of incentive to give him a major league spot on opening day. Granderson/Pearce/Pillar/Grichuk is just fine, so they can leave all the entry-level guys (Alford, Hernandez, Smith, Fields) to play regularly in Buffalo and give themselves plenty of depth. Granderson and Pearce are both gone after the season, so there will be regular opportunities going forward.
 

TF97

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There just isn't a lot of incentive to give him a major league spot on opening day. Granderson/Pearce/Pillar/Grichuk is just fine, so they can leave all the entry-level guys (Alford, Hernandez, Smith, Fields) to play regularly in Buffalo and give themselves plenty of depth. Granderson and Pearce are both gone after the season, so there will be regular opportunities going forward.
I am with you. I personally would like to see Alford get regular at bats in AAA and play himself onto the roster either later in the year or in 2019. I still think he will become a perfect top of the order hitter, almost like a right handed Coco Crisp but with more power.
 

Leafin

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The outfield is far from ideal but Atkins has set it up pretty well going into 2018. A few interchangeable guys that can play all 3 OF positions, Solarte?, Pearce the odd LF start. IF an injury were to come up we'd have Hernandez, Pompey and Alford fighting for it in AAA.

If we are out it by the deadline we have a bunch of veterans to move (Estrada, Happ, Donaldson, Pearce, Granderson, Smoak? Morales?).
 

Nineteen67

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I am with you. I personally would like to see Alford get regular at bats in AAA and play himself onto the roster either later in the year or in 2019. I still think he will become a perfect top of the order hitter, almost like a right handed Coco Crisp but with more power.

I think he needs a year at AAA. It’ll be interesting to see what happens

He’s played under 400 games in the past 6 years, and prior to that , he was playing MS high school (6A). He didn’t play much winter ball until recently.

Remember he was also recruited to play QB at Southern Miss before transferring to play defence at Ole Miss.
 

Kurtz

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What do you guys think of trading for Dan Straily? At 29, he's probably too old for the Marlins, but with 3 years of control left he might fit the profile that Shapkins has been targeting this year. We've also obviously already been discussing our prospects with the Marlins, and Dan probably shouldn't cost us all that much and could be a decent #5 for a few years.
 

SeaOfBlue

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What do you guys think of trading for Dan Straily? At 29, he's probably too old for the Marlins, but with 3 years of control left he might fit the profile that Shapkins has been targeting this year. We've also obviously already been discussing our prospects with the Marlins, and Dan probably shouldn't cost us all that much and could be a decent #5 for a few years.

Not that I have ever seen him play, but his ERA at the very least looks worse than last year, and his price last year was not even that high.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Reports: Marlins asked for Guerrero Jr. in trade talks with Blue Jays - Sportsnet.ca

Marlins wanted Vladdy for Yelich LOL

Jeets got hosed on the Stanton deal and is looking for a home run to win some fans back obviously

They're asking for Robles as a centerpiece for JT4Real. You can't fault them for opening negotiations at the top for their valuable pieces.

I think he needs a year at AAA. It’ll be interesting to see what happens

He’s played under 400 games in the past 6 years, and prior to that , he was playing MS high school (6A). He didn’t play much winter ball until recently.

Remember he was also recruited to play QB at Southern Miss before transferring to play defence at Ole Miss.

Whaaaaaatttt. Get outta here...

What do you guys think of trading for Dan Straily? At 29, he's probably too old for the Marlins, but with 3 years of control left he might fit the profile that Shapkins has been targeting this year. We've also obviously already been discussing our prospects with the Marlins, and Dan probably shouldn't cost us all that much and could be a decent #5 for a few years.

I like it.

I'm still on the Morales for Hammel train, even moreso now with how the roster is comprised.
 

Nineteen67

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What do you guys think of trading for Dan Straily? At 29, he's probably too old for the Marlins, but with 3 years of control left he might fit the profile that Shapkins has been targeting this year. We've also obviously already been discussing our prospects with the Marlins, and Dan probably shouldn't cost us all that much and could be a decent #5 for a few years.

He seems like all the other guys they’re looking at. If they can’t sign a FA, perhsps they can shed some extra baggage.

If they do trade prospects in any deal for a pitcher, I hope they trade don’t trade Alford to Miami. He’s one of my favourite and would rather see him go somewhere a little more stable.
 

Nineteen67

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That seems like something we would have heard of before now.

I wasn’t replying to you, but..

Maybe some folks need to pump the brakes on AA.

The fact is the kid is phenomenal athlete, but he missed (wasted IMO) a few years playing football. His recruitment was crazy and there was a lot of pressure on him and his family.

What he’s done so far in his development is fantastic. I was told he had a great winter and made progress in Mexico. I hope he is injury free and gets a full year in the minors.
 

zeke

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what we're maybe not talking about enough is that clearly our FO was all-in on getting Yelich. We should probably be talking about what that means to our FO's offseason plans in general and the type of players they're targetting (and which kind of players they're willing to trade).
 

Woodman19

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what we're maybe not talking about enough is that clearly our FO was all-in on getting Yelich. We should probably be talking about what that means to our FO's offseason plans in general and the type of players they're targetting (and which kind of players they're willing to trade).
I was wondering last night if we we're actually looking to move Pillar since we were in on Yelich aggressively.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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I wasn’t replying to you, but..

Maybe some folks need to pump the brakes on AA.

The fact is the kid is phenomenal athlete, but he missed (wasted IMO) a few years playing football. His recruitment was crazy and there was a lot of pressure on him and his family.

What he’s done so far in his development is fantastic. I was told he had a great winter and made progress in Mexico. I hope he is injury free and gets a full year in the minors.

Well I , for one, am thankful you are here to enlighten us on this mysterious prospect.

what we're maybe not talking about enough is that clearly our FO was all-in on getting Yelich. We should probably be talking about what that means to our FO's offseason plans in general and the type of players they're targetting (and which kind of players they're willing to trade).

Controllable talent, which makes sense. All that said, Yelich is a bit of weird case since he is so talented, and controllable, and affordable. It makes sense that they were in on him.

As far as their current targets via trade, specifically when it comes to starters, they could be Yelich-like (Fulmer), or Grichuk\Diaz-like (Matz).
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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I was wondering last night if we we're actually looking to move Pillar since we were in on Yelich aggressively.

I think its clear that if an opportunity to upgrade came along, Kevin would be traded. Given that the two most obvious avenues (Yelich\Cain) went off the board yesterday, the outfield likely is what it is.
 

Woodman19

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Wonder if the Brewers upgrades might make the Cardinals more interested in Donaldson since it's turned into a 3 team division.
 

BlueForever75

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It would have been awesome if there was a way to acquire Yelich without giving up Vlad or Bo. With that being said I am very content that we didn't give either of them up in the trade, would rather have them both long term then Yelich. Outfielders are a dime a dozen, great infielders are a more difficult task.

I am also glad that the Jays didn't overpay what the Brewers did for Cain. I honestly wouldn't have gone a penny more over 15 million a season on a 4 year deal. Good luck to the Brewers may work out in the short term but long term they are going to regret the deal.

With all of this being said, I am happy with the OF the way it is. The only other tinkering that is needed there is to trade some spare parts. Hernandez needs to be part of the OF rotation. If there is a way to trade Pearce and/or Carerra I would do it. Another option would be to deal Pillar if it brought back something of significance to plug another hole in the rotation.

How about Pillar and Morales to KC for Hammel.

Hammel instantly plugs hole in rotation. We get rid of Morales contract, still have $$$ to spend on bullpen and backup catcher, and clear OF spot for Hernandez to be able to platoon with Granderson or even in CF which he can play. Pearce and others can cover the DH spot vacated.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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It would have been awesome if there was a way to acquire Yelich without giving up Vlad or Bo. With that being said I am very content that we didn't give either of them up in the trade, would rather have them both long term then Yelich. Outfielders are a dime a dozen, great infielders are a more difficult task.

I am also glad that the Jays didn't overpay what the Brewers did for Cain. I honestly wouldn't have gone a penny more over 15 million a season on a 4 year deal. Good luck to the Brewers may work out in the short term but long term they are going to regret the deal.

With all of this being said, I am happy with the OF the way it is. The only other tinkering that is needed there is to trade some spare parts. Hernandez needs to be part of the OF rotation. If there is a way to trade Pearce and/or Carerra I would do it. Another option would be to deal Pillar if it brought back something of significance to plug another hole in the rotation.

How about Pillar and Morales to KC for Hammel.

Hammel instantly plugs hole in rotation. We get rid of Morales contract, still have $$$ to spend on bullpen and backup catcher, and clear OF spot for Hernandez to be able to platoon with Granderson or even in CF which he can play. Pearce and others can cover the DH spot vacated.

That's an amazing idea. You guys are on fire today. The vision, the strategery.

In all seriousness though, what makes such a deal smart is that its a "your crap for my crap", and perhaps some money retained on one side. There's no other piece (other than a fringe minor leaguer) involved in such a deal.

No need to trade Pillar, as he carries surplus value for the Blue Jays (still hate you, Kevin). And if Morales is moved, Pearce becomes your primary DH, with Tulo\Donaldson\Smoaker\Travis\Granderson cycling through that spot. If Teoscar is hitting well, he can easily be on the big club getting semi-everyday AB's in either LF\RF. Zeke can be sent to Buffalo quite easily.
 

zeke

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I don't understand why people think that's a bad deal for Cain. The guy was worth 4-5 war this past season. This deal takes him to age 36.
 

zeke

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I was wondering last night if we we're actually looking to move Pillar since we were in on Yelich aggressively.

certainly seems like they're itching to make some significant moves, not just placeholders.

who is the pitching version of yelich? Archer?
 
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