Winter Classic a Terrible Event

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LadyStanley

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Sep 22, 2004
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Honest question here.....you don't like Ovechkin or Crosby....that's fine. But, why would that cause you to not watch??

I don't like either of the Sedins or 'No Show Joe' Thronton...but I would still watch a Canucks vs. Sharks game.

My $0.02

I didn't watch as the rescheduled time put it up against my favorite team's game.

And I hate the Ovi/Sid hype. I've seen each three times, and they have a goal and two assists between them, therefore I cannot understand what the rest of the league thinks is a big/special deal.

(FTR, I don't watch NBC Sunday games as I'm at church during that time. Why can't they start at 1pm PT?)
 

CorbeauNoir

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Apr 13, 2010
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And I hate the Ovi/Sid hype. I've seen each three times, and they have a goal and two assists between them, therefore I cannot understand what the rest of the league thinks is a big/special deal.

1 on 1 NHL rivalries don't make any sense to me in the first place. It's not like soccer or basketball where the players in question are in play for the vast majority of the game, between line-cycling and special teams players are on the ice for such a limited time - much less playing directly against one another - that fabricating a personal rivalry doesn't really hold up with the way hockey is played.
 

Fidel Astro

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(FTR, I don't watch NBC Sunday games as I'm at church during that time. Why can't they start at 1pm PT?)

Obviously the church/hockey conflict you face is a non-issue for most of their viewers, otherwise they would have changed the times.

Personally, I can't imagine ever voluntarily setting foot in a church in the first place, let alone choosing it over hockey, but maybe that's just me.
 

ilovetheflyers8

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Jan 26, 2009
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Daniel Briere played hockey outdoors with his kids over the 8 days the Flyers had off according to the commentators for the the Flyers vs. Canucks game. Though you are probably right they probably don't skate outside often, but I would chalk that up to being busy for the majority of the winter with hockey (or not being in a location where they can do so), and when not playing hockey or practicing they have other non-hockey related stuff they have to or want to do.
 

BobRouse

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Mar 18, 2009
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I was there and it was AMAZING!

The atmosphere was incredible..and isnt the atmosphere why most of us go to games instead of sitting home watching??

Stayed for the weekend and it was party central pretty much with lots of opposing fans giving good natured ribbing and drinking up a storm.

Brought in huge amounts of cash to Pittsburgh which was actually a very nice city despite what I wanted to believe!

There was a buzz in the air and I will remember it for the rest of my life unlike many other games I have attended.

The only people who say its terrible, IMO, are the ones who have not yet had a chance to go to one. I'm sure if you did your minds will change quickly.

It was the highest rated regular season game, television wise, in some 30+ years so obviously the folks at home were fans as well.

Hopefully every hockey fan will get to experience an event like this.

The game itself was fun too and there was lots of animosity during the games. The ice could have been better but then again there are plenty of indoor arenas where the ice isn't much better (MSG for instance)

No one in the crowd was bothered by the rain which was light.

I'm definitley going to the one in DC/Landover!
 

Tommy Hawk

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May 27, 2006
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I watched the replay and the TV viewing was absolutely horrible and that is complimenting it.
 

Dado

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I was there and it was AMAZING!...There was a buzz in the air and I will remember it for the rest of my life unlike many other games I have attended.

That's pretty awesome, and you're right, atmosphere has a LOT to do with how we remember things.

Glad you had a great time!
 

Crazy_Ike

Cookin' with fire.
Mar 29, 2005
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Having so much on the line (points in the standings) for a side show doesn't seem fair to the fans, to the players or to the League itself. It makes a mockery of the game.

The fans, the players, and the league itself love it, so, yeah, about that.

Your post is so far from reality it's nearing bizarroworld territory. The fact may be that YOU don't like it, but objectively speaking all the outdoor games have been utter smashing successes and probably the best thing the League has come up with in a long, long time.
 

Mathradio

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Oct 11, 2010
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On Monday night, a talking head on ESPN was given a chance to say whatever he wanted on the air for 30 seconds, and he talked about the Winter Classic. And he talked about how awesome it was, and he said that Penguins/Caps is the best Rivalry in North American Sports, better than Yankees/Red Sox. As crazy as many probably think that comment is, that exposure is worth every bit of pain in the butt that people think the winter classic may be. When you have the most watched NHL regular season game in 35 years, you must be doing something right.

If not of the NHL's interference, Penguins/Caps would never have had the potential to be a rivalry on the same scale of magnitude as Montreal/Toronto, Chicago/Detroit or Montreal/Boston, all of which are classical hockey rivalries.

I agree, though; if the NHL wants outdoor games, at least don't force-feed us Pens/Caps again.
 

CommunistDayKare

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Mar 7, 2010
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If not of the NHL's interference, Penguins/Caps would never have had the potential to be a rivalry on the same scale of magnitude as Montreal/Toronto, Chicago/Detroit or Montreal/Boston, all of which are classical hockey rivalries.

I agree, though; if the NHL wants outdoor games, at least don't force-feed us Pens/Caps again.
Those rivalries are all original 6 teams, so they've had the time to build up. Pens/Caps isn't nearly the level of those, but I think the fans sort of make the rivalry here.

A little off topic, but it seems like at least Hawks fans don't really care about the Red Wings rivalry anymore.
 

Mathradio

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Even now, Pens/Caps is at best at the level of Rangers/Flyers. Maybe, if the rivalry spread beyond Crosby/Ovechkin, it could be at a level similar to that of the most virulent of Original Six rivalries, but only until Crosby and Ovechkin are both past their primes.
 

SJGoalie32

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Apr 7, 2007
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But the Buffalo and Boston WCs were slow boring games too. The Chicago WC was pretty much ideal for weather/ice and it showed in the scoreboard, but it's the exception rather than the rule for these outdoor games. Pittsburgh's weather just happened to be even worse than the norm.

Actually, I very much enjoyed watching the Buffalo and Boston games.

But alright.....everyone's enjoyment of a game is subjective. So you think that 1 out of 4 Winter Classic games have been exciting, well-played games. Fine.

Just out of curiousity, what percentage of games on Versus or NBC do you find exciting? Surely you don't think they're all intense, exciting showcases of athletic performance.

How many regular season games are really exciting and well-played? How many times a year do teams play on slushy ice? How often do we get a particular game where players are falling all over the ice and we barely give it a notice? How many regular games does the puck seem to jump all around and not want to settle?

Most NHL games are played in overused arenas with varying levels of ice quality and surrounding air temperatures in the 20-24C range.

The last 3 Sharks regular season games have all been sloppy, boring, snooze fests. Perhaps they should stop playing games INdoors? :sarcasm:

The people most worried about the 2 points in the standings and possible player injuries are the teams and players themselves. Almost all of the players in the league want to play in them, and pretty much every team is trying to host/play in them. If Pit/Wsh/Det/Chi/Buf/Bos/Phi didn't want to play in those games, they were free to decline the opportunity. Nobody from the league forced the Blackhawks to do all that work on Wrigley Field. If any of those other things you mentioned were serious enough issues for the Blackhawks (and Red Wings....and all the other teams) organization, and if the players and ownership *REALLY* didn't want to have to play in it, they wouldn't have played in it.
 

BobRouse

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Mar 18, 2009
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That's pretty awesome, and you're right, atmosphere has a LOT to do with how we remember things.

Glad you had a great time!

Indeed and thanks! It wish the party (especially the pregame when BOTH fanbases were amped) was still going!

And to those who think Caps/Pens is some new rivalry since Ovechkin/Crosby hype you have a short memory.

Since 1990 they have met in the playoffs a ton of times and there have been several things like Mario suffering a broken jaw(?) while trying to pick a fight with Bobby Gould, Mario just turning it on and crushing us in the playoffs, Jagr trade that crumbled two franchises at once which LEAD to Ovechkin/Crosby being drafted by respective teams to an extent.....

I can tell you that those fans during the game absolutely despised the Caps and when I'd try and reason with some and say "hey aren't the Flyers your TRUE rival" they scoffed (perhaps it was due to the fact that they were playing the Caps THAT nite that lead them to think that way..who knows?)

They were division rivals for a long time lest we forget and even after the Caps got redirected to the SE the rivalry has been maintained.
 

Mathradio

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And to those who think Caps/Pens is some new rivalry since Ovechkin/Crosby hype you have a short memory.

Since 1990 they have met in the playoffs a ton of times and there have been several things like Mario suffering a broken jaw(?) while trying to pick a fight with Bobby Gould, Mario just turning it on and crushing us in the playoffs, Jagr trade that crumbled two franchises at once which LEAD to Ovechkin/Crosby being drafted by respective teams to an extent.....

I can tell you that those fans during the game absolutely despised the Caps and when I'd try and reason with some and say "hey aren't the Flyers your TRUE rival" they scoffed (perhaps it was due to the fact that they were playing the Caps THAT nite that lead them to think that way..who knows?)

They were division rivals for a long time lest we forget and even after the Caps got redirected to the SE the rivalry has been maintained.

The NHL is trying to force the rivalry to unprecedented levels in Caps (or Pens) history; how much of a rivalry would there be if Bettman did not indulge in an orgy of Crosby/Ovechkin overhype?

Mind you, there would still be a rivalry but the NHL would market another rivalry instead.
 

CorbeauNoir

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Apr 13, 2010
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Just out of curiousity, what percentage of games on Versus or NBC do you find exciting? Surely you don't think they're all intense, exciting showcases of athletic performance.

How many regular season games are really exciting and well-played? How many times a year do teams play on slushy ice? How often do we get a particular game where players are falling all over the ice and we barely give it a notice? How many regular games does the puck seem to jump all around and not want to settle?
I'm in Canada so I generally don't watch games on VS/NBC, thank Christ. Whatever the case, this is supposed to be a professional sports league. If the objective isn't to make all games 'intense, exciting showcases of athletic performance' why the hell are the players even bothering to show up? Why are you even bothering to watch, for that matter? Are you saying you ENJOY being bored?

Now of course I'm idealizing things. You're always going to have games where players phone it in or the chemistry just isn't there or the teams are playing tired, any plausible situation you care to bring up. Point is, the conditions for what is supposed to be a standardized field of play should be the absolute last excuse for a slow, boring game. It's 20-freaking-11. We can drop a missile onto a pinhead from space with an xbox controller. We can map out the human genome. We should be able to maintain some kind of reasonable minimum standard for competent ice conditions in an enclosed arena, and to simply shrug our collective shoulders and say 'meh' when even modern arenas fail to provide half-decent ice is even more unforgivable than when they fail to do it outdoors. This is supposed to be the best hockey league in the world, the least that can be done is provide conditions to best showcase that talent.

All I ever hear in the runup to a WC is how pumped up and excited the players are about the game. Which is fantastic, but it only serves to underline how much the ice conditions are to blame for impeding the pace of the game. All the enthusiasm in the world isn't going to do much when you can't even complete a pass because the ice is wet slush. Playing a game outdoors is a great novelty but the game itself is almost guaranteed to be clumsy and, frankly, a poor example of how exciting a hockey game can actually be when the elements are ideal.
 
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garnetpalmetto

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Jul 12, 2004
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The NHL is trying to force the rivalry to unprecedented levels in Caps (or Pens) history; how much of a rivalry would there be if Bettman did not indulge in an orgy of Crosby/Ovechkin overhype?

Mind you, there would still be a rivalry but the NHL would market another rivalry instead.

Then, instead you'd have people complaining that the NHL was idiotic for not doing more to market the two players who are arguably the best two active players going, especially in light of the rivalry that has existed between the Pens and Caps. Like BobRouse I remember the rivalry in its heyday when the Pens and Caps faced off in 5 out of 6 consecutive playoffs in the early to mid-90's, then in consecutive years in the early '00s Aand then again in '03-'04 when both teams were out to claim the first overall draft pick.

There are times when I truly believe the NHL can do no right in the eyes of its fans. :shakehead
 

CorbeauNoir

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Apr 13, 2010
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Then, instead you'd have people complaining that the NHL was idiotic for not doing more to market the two players who are arguably the best two active players going, especially in light of the rivalry that has existed between the Pens and Caps.

Pens and Caps fans, maybe. There happen to be another 28 teams out there whose fans are sick to death of it, though. Hell, there are far older, more intense rivalries than Pens-Caps to exploit in the first place, ones that aren't currently entirely hinged on two players that just so happened to be drafted into their respective teams. If Ovechkin was picked up by the Kings instead of the Caps, would NBC be riding Pens-Caps anywhere near as hard as they currently do? I really doubt it.
 

Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
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I didn't watch the game, but I've played on ice where parts had surface water. When the puck finishes crossing over the puddle and hit ice again it would just stop and stick to the ice. Did that happen during the game? Too funny if it did.
 

jazzibabe67

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Oct 14, 2010
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9 - 2...them leaves crack me up...the seasons have gone bonkers...did you know...just wanted to say...hey...i lived by a river all my life...and i've actually played...skated...as long as the ice held me up...and true word...it must have been a dayum good time out there for 'em boys...who the heck gives a living BS about $$....SUCKERS!!!
 

MyLeafsForever

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Jul 8, 2010
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Most of those players never experienced the rigors of an NHL Season until they joined the League, and those conditions lend more to injury than one solo outdoor game. A special game that helps to sell the NHL itself, the League that pays their salaries. Besides, they get paid well, and to play in a game that helps sell the NHL, as I said also helps indirectly to pay their salaries. And what about the Olympics... the players who play in those games could get hurt and effect the rest of the Season with their respective NHL teams?

There's nothing at all bad about the "Winter Classic". Although I would hope that they continue to hold it in places that actually have a 'winter'.

Pretty empty summation.

But allow me to respond.

The quality of the game in rain is *****. That is a fact. You cannot pass a puck, you cannot skate, you cannot play a quality game in rain. Anyone tried to pass a puck after the zamboni has left the ice? This point is not debatable. A game in rain affects the quality of the game.

Your second point on the rigors of training in the NHL, I must disagree with. Every kid in the NHL comes out of junior and AAA programs that are very long, and very rigorous. The NHL is the culmination of years of training, each year building on the previous. So I respectfully disagree.

Finally, your rationalization makes my point exactly. Its all about $$$$ and not the game. Its a side show.

FYI, the olympics are played indoor and for your nation. I imagine next to a stanley cup, winning gold for your nation is a hockey player's highest honor.
 

alternity

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Feb 17, 2010
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Finally, your rationalization makes my point exactly. Its all about $$$$ and not the game. Its a side show.

By helping sell the NHL, they're growing the game. Is it wrong to have a spectacle, like the Winter Classic, enjoy high visibility to the general public and not exclusively cater to pre-existing fans such as yourself?

This is a selfish rant, in my opinion. In your view, it cheapens the game because it does nothing for you and arguably detracts from one game (more so than in-arena one-sided blowouts and the occasional boring game, I presume) - yet people have attested to the amazing atmosphere surrounding the Classic, independent of the on-ice events. Fact is, quality is not solely predicated on whether or not it is held indoors, it's routinely affected by variables beyond our control. The Winter Classic impacts one regular season game of hockey between two teams, hardly the affront to fans, players, the league and, presumably, humanity that you dramatize it to be. Nor can I see how it makes a mockery out of the game. Games are played in suboptimal conditions in arenas too. Sometimes teams goon it up. The event was never planned on being held in the rain (which would be a truly terrible event) yet it so happens that the weather is somewhat out of our ability to rein in. Don't see why that holds any significance in whether a Winter Classic should be held or not. What are some tangible effects of the Winter Classic? Well, people are talking about hockey, people are attending the Classic in droves and people producing documentaries (the HBO special). I don't know how any of that would happen for an All-Star Game.

As for the All-Star Game, personally, I find that it's wholly unnecessary for several reasons:

1) Potential injuries for a game which ultimately means nothing

2) Players altogether aware of 1), thus playing a pseudo-game of hockey

As a result, the All-Star game is mostly a shooting gallery and not very interesting to watch or taken seriously by anybody, even hockey fans. It holds very little of the things that makes hockey truly great (passion, intensity, etc). Not very marketable as a clash of wills where there is none to speak of.

So, rather than being a meaningless exhibition, as a regular season game at least it's worth something. You argue that's giving it too much importance- but borrowing from your Olympic rebuttal, I would imagine myself that being injured in a game that doesn't mean anything to anyone is worse than being injured in a game that matters. At least they're trying to help their team win a game worth points than the true "sideshow" (re: All-Star Game). The ice isn't slanted in any direction as both teams play in equally good or terrible circumstances- also there won't be any questions of whether or not they played for the win because it does have consequences in the standings and a high degree of visibility (compared to your run-of-the-mill regular season clash).

Now, obviously, there are things that could be improved and other things that aren't altogether necessary and who knows- the novelty may wear off soon. These issues will be discussed ad infinitum between the NHL and the NHLPA (and, of course, HFBoards). But I just can't see how it's decidedly negative for either the game of hockey or the league, or the players or anybody involved. Well, besides naysayers such as yourself who would rather the sport bury itself in the deep recesses of the north and never market to the heathen masses lest it result in deviation from the status quo. Holding the All-Star Game outside is not going to make it any bigger than it already is because there is already nothing on the line. No goal, zero intensity.

Note: I especially like your conjecture of what players would prefer and etc, mostly cause it makes for good fiction. If there was any indication that players were against the Winter Classic, I'm sure there would've been at least an inkling of such sentiment based on a little more than "I bet Bettman and his cronies are silencing everyone who agrees with my otherwise carefully articulated and well substantiated point". That portion of your argument based on what ifs is precarious at best and foolish at worst.
 

HabsByTheBay

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Those rivalries are all original 6 teams, so they've had the time to build up. Pens/Caps isn't nearly the level of those, but I think the fans sort of make the rivalry here.

A little off topic, but it seems like at least Hawks fans don't really care about the Red Wings rivalry anymore.

Clearly one did not see the Chris Chelios ceremony in Chicago.
 
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