Speculation: Winnipeg Jets v1.0 franchise records...a move coming?

[HannuJ]

please don't get into a debate if the franchise records should be ours or the coyotes'. this is meant to be a discussion if something's abrew.

Hall Of Fame - WINNIPEG JETS

i'm having a tough time understanding if the Winnipeg hockey hall of fame's a way to celebrate winnipeg hockey history or if it's a relatively quick shift to re-inherit the Jets v1.0's history.

seeing things like the link above and seeing True North sell Ducky-related merchandise is kind of odd if Arizona's going to retain the Jets' 1.0's records and history. i'm trying to think if there's another example of that happening in the NHL. do the Avalanche celebrate the Rockies' history, other than the 3rd jersey they had? how about the Wild? they selling Stars'-related merch?

does anyone think there will a franchise history "swap" coming, maybe as early as this off season?

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[Aavco Cup]

No swap. That makes no sense. Why would Arizona want Atlanta's history.


The Winnipeg history belongs to Winnipeg. I don't really understand all the angst around this. I can celebrate all the Jets history I choose to.

 

[Guardian17]

please don't get into a debate if the franchise records should be ours or the coyotes'. this is meant to be a discussion if something's abrew.

Hall Of Fame - WINNIPEG JETS

i'm having a tough time understanding if the Winnipeg hockey hall of fame's a way to celebrate winnipeg hockey history or if it's a relatively quick shift to re-inherit the Jets v1.0's history.

seeing things like the link above and seeing True North sell Ducky-related merchandise is kind of odd if Arizona's going to retain the Jets' 1.0's records and history. i'm trying to think if there's another example of that happening in the NHL. do the Avalanche celebrate the Rockies' history, other than the 3rd jersey they had? how about the Wild? they selling Stars'-related merch?

does anyone think there will a franchise history "swap" coming, maybe as early as this off season?

When the Minnesota Wild hosted an outdoor game last season their alumni wore Minnesota North Star Jerseys.

When the Colorado Avalanche retired Joe Sakic's jersey, the banner they raised only recognized his time in Colorado and not Quebec.

The best example of a history swap is in the NBA where the Charlotte Hornets 1.0 history was transferred from the New Orleans Pelicans and merged with the Charlotte Bobcats who rebranded as the Charlotte Hornets 2.0.

Bobcats officially become Hornets in Charlotte

Based on that precedent, I am hopeful the Jets 1.0 records will be transferred and merged with the Jets 2.0 sometime in the future.

 

[Jets4Life]

I have no doubt Jets 1.0 history will be ours. We can give Atlanta back it's history for a future franchise, and reclaim what is rightfully ours. I believe the Senators recognize the early Sens history from 1917 to the mid 1930s. The NBA and NFL have given teams back their history. All TNSE has to do is ask for it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I have a vague recollection from when the return was first announced that the history was available for the asking. TNSE didn't want it at that time. Anyone else recall such a thing or did I imagine it?

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I have a vague recollection from when the return was first announced that the history was available for the asking. TNSE didn't want it at that time. Anyone else recall such a thing or did I imagine it?

The old logos / uniform designs were made available - is that what you're thinking of?

 

[King Woodballs]

No swap. That makes no sense. Why would Arizona want Atlanta's history.


The Winnipeg history belongs to Winnipeg. I don't really understand all the angst around this. I can celebrate all the Jets history I choose to.

Well in all fairness the browns have their old history not the ravens.

Not that I am advocating that the records should be switched. Because honestly I could care less either way, But it's not like there isn't precedence supporting such a move.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I have a vague recollection from when the return was first announced that the history was available for the asking. TNSE didn't want it at that time. Anyone else recall such a thing or did I imagine it?

I honestly do not remember such a thing and I believe you are mistaken.

If the Yotes ever wind up relocating I think we could make a play for their history. In my dreams the Yotes relocate to Quebec, and the Quebec/Winnipeg/New Jersey/Colorado franchises do a four-way swap to get back their respective heritages and records.

But as tonight shows, it really doesn't matter. Jets have been free to honour Jets 1.0 teams without them being part of official franchise history.

 

[bustamente]

All you have to do is look up into the rafters and see the crests of Jets 1.o hanging with the names of Jets 1.0. One day all the history will be back.

 

[HannuJ]

I honestly do not remember such a thing and I believe you are mistaken.

If the Yotes ever wind up relocating I think we could make a play for their history. In my dreams the Yotes relocate to Quebec, and the Quebec/Winnipeg/New Jersey/Colorado franchises do a four-way swap to get back their respective heritages and records.

But as tonight shows, it really doesn't matter. Jets have been free to honour Jets 1.0 teams without them being part of official franchise history.

part of me wonders if there wasn't a rush for the following reasons:
1. you need to drum up fan excitement. the first few seasons were self-propelled. so the recent tie-ins to v1.0 may be to build a history and continue keeping momentum going
2. as dumb as this may sound, having some Jets v1.0 still playing in the nhl may have been an issue. looking at you, Shane Doan. as long as a Jets' draft pick was playing with the v1.0's franchise, i think that, logically, switching franchise histories wouldn't have made sense. now that he's gone, it's possibly in play

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The old logos / uniform designs were made available - is that what you're thinking of?

That could be it. I'm better at remembering 40 years ago than 6.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

does anyone think there will a franchise history "swap" coming, maybe as early as this off season?

This is the topic of the thread. We're already OT, so can we steer it back to the original question?

 

[nobody important]

This is the topic of the thread. We're already OT, so can we steer it back to the original question?

Sure, this sums up my view on the matter.

 

[JohnStaymoose]

Watching Ducky's number being raised to the rafters yesterday evening gave me goose bumps of Joy and for the Jets to pull out a 4-1 win in front of him was icing on the cake. Now to retire Teemu and Steen's number along side the other great 1.0 Jets. Heck even throw in Brent Ashton's #7

 

[cbcwpg]

does anyone think there will a franchise history "swap" coming, maybe as early as this off season?

We can celebrate whatever history we want, but officially... According to the NHL we are the relocated / renamed Atlanta Thrashers....

The question that needs to be asked is why? Why would the NHL give records of a different franchise ( Jets 1.0 / Coyotes ) back to the new Jets ( Thrashers / Jets 2.0 )? Ok, maybe if the Coyotes were to be disbanded so they no longer exist, but when they are still around?

 

[jetsforever]

[To] answer the original question directly, I highly doubt there will be any "swap" in the near future. It's not how the NHL works.

 

[Gm0ney]

The NHL can likely do anything it pleases. Things seem to be working alright with the current arrangement - this kind of de facto ownership of Jets 1.0 history.

 

[DowntownBooster]

We can celebrate whatever history we want, but officially... According to the NHL we are the relocated / renamed Atlanta Thrashers....

The question that needs to be asked is why? Why would the NHL give records of a different franchise ( Jets 1.0 / Coyotes ) back to the new Jets ( Thrashers / Jets 2.0 )? Ok, maybe if the Coyotes were to be disbanded so they no longer exist, but when they are still around?

I think this issue has been addressed before in different threads. The bottom line is that it has been done before by both the NBA and NFL. If the NHL was willing to do follow suit it could be done.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sure, this sums up my view on the matter.

Looks painful.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We can celebrate whatever history we want, but officially... According to the NHL we are the relocated / renamed Atlanta Thrashers....

The question that needs to be asked is why? Why would the NHL give records of a different franchise ( Jets 1.0 / Coyotes ) back to the new Jets ( Thrashers / Jets 2.0 )? Ok, maybe if the Coyotes were to be disbanded so they no longer exist, but when they are still around?

The question should be why wouldn't they. The idea that the history matters to a 'franchise' doesn't make any sense whatsoever in any context. The 'franchise' is just an accounting construct. They could just as easily consider that the Thrashers died (in accounting terms - went bankrupt). The league took possession of all their remaining assets which they then sold to TNSE. They could choose to call TNSE's new Winnipeg Jets a new 'franchise' rising from the ashes of the old one. The fact that they don't is relevant to nothing outside the league office.

If a team doesn't 'belong' to a city they would not create much 'rooting interest'. They would have a hard time selling tickets. The Jets have fans all over the world who have adopted the team for one reason or another but the vast majority of fans are Winnipegers who support Winnipeg's team.

The history of hockey in Winnipeg includes Jets 1.0, both WHA and NHL whether the NHL likes it or not. Trying to pretend that it moved to Arizona with the players is nonsensical.

 

[RitzFoods]

We can celebrate whatever history we want, but officially... According to the NHL we are the relocated / renamed Atlanta Thrashers....

The question that needs to be asked is why? Why would the NHL give records of a different franchise ( Jets 1.0 / Coyotes ) back to the new Jets ( Thrashers / Jets 2.0 )? Ok, maybe if the Coyotes were to be disbanded so they no longer exist, but when they are still around?

It's all driven by money. Whichever market can leverage dollars from the teams history will. Consider ducky. I doubt there's much of a demand for #10 ducky sweaters in Phoenix but in Winnipeg there is. Equally, how many people in Winnipeg are clamoring for a Doan sweater? I'd bet they fly off the shelves in Phoenix.

I doubt there's any conscious move to relocate lock stock and barrel a teams history. Instead, whoever can make a dollar off it will own it.

 

[cbcwpg]

I agree with all the arguments, and I'm not the OP of this thread, but I'll ask the question...

If the Jets 2.0 wanted the Jets 1.0 official records and history back, which would require these records being removed from the Coyotes and the Thrashers records marked as a non-existent franchise.... what would it take to get the NHL to do it officially so you would see it in the record books?

Asking the NHL nicely? Giving the NHL money? Giving the Coyotes money so they could build their new arena? No idea... that's why I asked why before. The NHL will not do anything unless there is a benefit to them doing so IMO although changing the records around would be an easy operation.

 

[RitzFoods]

If the Jets 2.0 wanted the Jets 1.0 official records and history back, which would require these records being removed from the Coyotes and the Thrashers records marked as a non-existent franchise.... what would it take to get the NHL to do it officially so you would see it in the record books?

I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ here but they wouldn't be considered 'records' i.e. record of fact, if you tampered with them. Records are just that - a record of what occurred, when and by whom (player and team). To play around with that would be tampering with history. So no, I doubt the NHL would ever consider this.

 

[nobody important]

Giving the Coyotes money so they could build their new arena?

 

[DowntownBooster]

I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ here but they wouldn't be considered 'records' i.e. record of fact, if you tampered with them. Records are just that - a record of what occurred, when and by whom (player and team). To play around with that would be tampering with history. So no, I doubt the NHL would ever consider this.

Not sure why. Other leagues have done it (NFL & NBA). The CFL considers all clubs that have played in Montreal as one franchise dating to 1946, and considers the Alouettes to have suspended operations in 1987 before returning in 1996. Even though the current Alouettes were originally the Baltimore Stallions, neither the league nor the Alouettes recognize the Baltimore franchise, or it's records, as part of the Alouettes' official team history. It can be done. The NHL just has to be willing to do what other leagues already have done.