Wings vs. Leafs prospect pools

[King In The North]

Helm, Abdelkader and Matthias have been drafted by Detroit in that time. Pretty impressive, eh?

Howard, Kindl, Tatar. Way to forget them.

 

[jkrx]

Why did you choose 7 as a cut-off? Oh, because we drafted 5 of our top 10. But wait, that list doesn't include our prospects from 2011.

Here's a better list:
1. Nazem Kadri
2. James Reimer
3. Joe Colborne
4. Keith Aulie
5. Jake Gardiner
6. Jesse Blacker
7. Greg McKegg
8. Stuart Percy
9. Tyler Biggs
10. Matt Frattin

There we go, 7 of the top 10 drafted by the Leafs.

That doesn't include Schenn, Gunnarsson, Kulemin, Stalberg, Rask or Stralman all drafted in 2005 or after and playing in the NHL.

Helm, Abdelkader and Matthias have been drafted by Detroit in that time. Pretty impressive, eh?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong with your arguments but that comparison is not exactly fair. Maple Leafs is rebuilding, Red Wings are not so it takes longer time for a prospect, if ever, to make the roster. You also forgot Kindl, so four players.

Put your top end prospects in Detroit and I doubt all of them would get ice-time.

 

[jkrx]

Howard, Kindl, Tatar. Way to forget them.

Howard was drafted in 2003.

 

[embracedbias]

Howard, Kindl, Tatar. Way to forget them.

Howard was drafted in 2003. Tatar has only played 9 games in the NHL (notice how I didn't include Kadri).

Fair enough on Kindl.

 

[embracedbias]

I have no idea how you came to half those conclusions based upon my post considering I have yet to evaluate any of our prospects. Next, I'm old enough to have lived through the dead wing era so I've seen Detroit be an awful team. So please, do me a favor, and use the HF, "what have you done for me lately" mentality with someone else. I've gotten to watch the most sucessful team of the last two decades because of their drafting. I've also watched one of the worst teams in the league as a result of their horrendous drafting. The end game of drafting is winning and that's exactly what the Detroit method has given us. There's no telling whether we have another superstar waiting in the shadows but when people look back on this era of Red Wings hockey, the last thing they'll say, is that our Drafting was overrated.

You said: "Detroit drafts high risk/high reward prospects. Thats the strategy. All it takes is one or two of these guys to pan out over the next few seasons. We have elite talent, we can afford to swing for the fences when a lot of other teams can't."

Detroit's strategy isn't very different from every other team in the league. Every team swings for the fences with late round picks. The only reason why you think Detroit will do this successfully at some point in the near future (or perhaps has done so already with Pulkkinen) is because they happened to be successful at doing so over a decade ago.

The problem is with people who see a Detroit late round pick and think "oh boy, here comes another Zetterberg!". Despite Detroit's previous success, it is highly unlikely that someone of that caliber gets drafted in the late rounds.

 

[embracedbias]

I'm not saying you are right or wrong with your arguments but that comparison is not exactly fair. Maple Leafs is rebuilding, Red Wings are not so it takes longer time for a prospect, if ever, to make the roster. You also forgot Kindl, so four players.

Put your top end prospects in Detroit and I doubt all of them would get ice-time.

Each of the players I listed would probably be on the Wings roster (perhaps not Stalberg). Plus, Schenn and Stralman are the only ones that made the roster at a very young age. Kulemin, Gunnarsson and Rask made the NHL when they were 23 (Kulie is 25 now, Gunnarsson and Rask are 24). Stralman is 25 now and has moved on.

These aren't guys who would still be playing in the minors if they were in Detroit's system.

 

[UniverStalinGraduate*]

This is such a hilarious comparison.

Obviously the leafs should have a much better prospect pool, they haven't made the playoffs in 7 seasons.

Too funny

 

[King In The North]

Howard was drafted in 2003. Tatar has only played 9 games in the NHL (notice how I didn't include Kadri).

Fair enough on Kindl.

Fair enough. Kept thinking Howard was drafted in '05

 

[jkrx]

Each of the players I listed would probably be on the Wings roster (perhaps not Stalberg). Plus, Schenn and Stralman are the only ones that made the roster at a very young age. Kulemin, Gunnarsson and Rask made the NHL when they were 23 (Kulie is 25 now, Gunnarsson and Rask are 24). Stralman is 25 now and has moved on.

These aren't guys who would still be playing in the minors if they were in Detroit's system.

Which roster spot would Stralman or Gunnarsson take?

Let's say we have those players you mentioned. Schenn and Kulemin would most likely steal roster spots from Commodore and White, one of them would benefit from Rafalski retirement. Now we have;

Lidström - Kronwall
Stuart - Kulemin/Schenn
Ericsson - Kulemin/Schenn

Ericsson just signed a new contract so they wont scratch him unless he plays unbelievably bad.

Rask would fight with Howard for a starter role.

Now who else would get a roster spot of Torontos superiour prospect pool? If Kadri can play as a winger then he's the only one I see.

 

[embracedbias]

Which roster spot would Stralman or Gunnarsson take?

Let's say we have those players you mentioned. Schenn and Kulemin would most likely steal roster spots from Commodore and White, one of them would benefit from Rafalski retirement. Now we have;

Lidström - Kronwall
Stuart - Kulemin/Schenn
Ericsson - Kulemin/Schenn

Ericsson just signed a new contract so they wont scratch him unless he plays unbelievably bad.

Rask would fight with Howard for a starter role.

Now who else would get a roster spot of Torontos superiour prospect pool? If Kadri can play as a winger then he's the only one I see.

Kulemin is a forward....

 

[The Podium]

Detroits drafting is overrated. Since Zetterberg the only noteworthy picks are Kronwall Franzen and Howard. Kronwall was a 1st round pick so well use Franzen and Howard to base our comparison.

In 2006 the Leafs drafted overeager Nikolai Kulemin who is now a 30 goal 60 point player, very similar to Franzen (yet does not have the playoff resume that allows him to be considered a star). In that same draft the Leafs also picked in the 4th round James Reimer, essentially a nobody, not ranked and was a back-up in Red Deer in his draft year.

Another thing that is often overlooked in Leafs drafting, Toronto has 100% success rate in drafting in the 1st round of the new millennium.

2000: Boyes
2001: Coliacovo
2002: Steen
2003: No Pick
2004: No Pick
2005: Rask
2006: Tlusty (Although disappointing still NHL regular)
2007: No Pick
2008: Schenn
2009: Kadri (Played in the NHL, and expected to be a full timer as early as next season)

Of those picks, only Schenn and Kadri are top 10.

 

[Lainlight]

Why would you compare the best team the last 2 decades to a bottom-dweller? Toronto should have a better prospect pool than Detroit only by going bt higher draft picks and a constant rebuild, but they don't. Thats just hilarious

 

[embracedbias]

Why would you compare the best team the last 2 decades to a bottom-dweller? Toronto should have a better prospect pool than Detroit only by going bt higher draft picks and a constant rebuild, but they don't. Thats just hilarious

But they do.

 

[Pneuma]

You said: "Detroit drafts high risk/high reward prospects. Thats the strategy. All it takes is one or two of these guys to pan out over the next few seasons. We have elite talent, we can afford to swing for the fences when a lot of other teams can't."

Detroit's strategy isn't very different from every other team in the league. Every team swings for the fences with late round picks. The only reason why you think Detroit will do this successfully at some point in the near future (or perhaps has done so already with Pulkkinen) is because they happened to be successful at doing so over a decade ago.

The problem is with people who see a Detroit late round pick and think "oh boy, here comes another Zetterberg!". Despite Detroit's previous success, it is highly unlikely that someone of that caliber gets drafted in the late rounds.

Again, I never said one word about our late round picks or about whether or not I think we'll be successful in the future. You're assuming far too much of me because I defended the notion of our drafting being overrated.

As for your other point, you will be very hard pressed to find a team who drafts as many project players as Detroit. Thats why our prospect pool is filled with undersized, underdevloped, but extremely skilled players. If you can't see that then there's nothing more I can say.

 

[ComradeChris]

Detroits drafting is overrated. Since Zetterberg the only noteworthy picks are Kronwall Franzen and Howard. Kronwall was a 1st round pick so well use Franzen and Howard to base our comparison.

In 2006 the Leafs drafted overeager Nikolai Kulemin who is now a 30 goal 60 point player, very similar to Franzen (yet does not have the playoff resume that allows him to be considered a star). In that same draft the Leafs also picked in the 4th round James Reimer, essentially a nobody, not ranked and was a back-up in Red Deer in his draft year.

Another thing that is often overlooked in Leafs drafting, Toronto has 100% success rate in drafting in the 1st round of the new millennium.

2000: Boyes
2001: Coliacovo
2002: Steen
2003: No Pick
2004: No Pick
2005: Rask
2006: Tlusty (Although disappointing still NHL regular)
2007: No Pick
2008: Schenn
2009: Kadri (Played in the NHL, and expected to be a full timer as early as next season)

Of those picks, only Schenn and Kadri are top 10.

Kronwall is our #1 defenseman after Lidstrom retires...
Franzen is a playoff warrior that is far more valuable than any of the current Maple Leafs squad.
Howard is projecting to be a franchise goalie and has only been getting better.

Why Detroit sure sucks at drafting... None of those 1st round picks Toronto made will pan out as well as those 3. That's the beauty of the Detroit drafting system. High risk high reward.

 

[HabsFanFromOntario]

Sorry but recently how many Datsyuk's or Zetterbergs have Detroit pulled out of their ass? It's more great player development and luck that scouting skill.

 

[The Podium]

Kronwall is our #1 defenseman after Lidstrom retires...
Franzen is a playoff warrior that is far more valuable than any of the current Maple Leafs squad.
Howard is projecting to be a franchise goalie and has only been getting better.

Why Detroit sure sucks at drafting... None of those 1st round picks Toronto made will pan out as well as those 3. That's the beauty of the Detroit drafting system. High risk high reward.

Kulemin has the potential to be better than Franzen. At 25 Franzen wasn't even in the NHL yet, while at 24 Kulemin already has a 30 goal 58 point season on his resume.

Reimer had a similar rookie season to Howard.

Never said anything bad about Kronwall.

 

[jkrx]

Kulemin has the potential to be better than Franzen. At 25 Franzen wasn't even in the NHL yet, while at 24 Kulemin already has a 30 goal 58 point season on his resume.

Reimer had a similar rookie season to Howard.

Never said anything bad about Kronwall.

Franzen is a typical late bloomer, you cant punish him for not being discovered sooner.

Kulemin is a forward....

Yes sorry, I meant to write Stralman. Kulemin was going in a different section.

 

[jkrx]

Sorry but recently how many Datsyuk's or Zetterbergs have Detroit pulled out of their ass? It's more great player development and luck that scouting skill.

They were drafted in 98-99 so I'd say that last couple of drafts should contain a late round superstar to keep the streak going.

Detroit also drafted Ericsson in the 9th round. Quincey in the 4th, Helm in the 5th. Too bad that Samuelsson didnt pan out, because he looked great when he was drafted.

 

[LaPlante94]

Leafs fan here and 2 prospects from Detroit I like are Parkes and Sproul. Played with Parkes and is a very good goal scorer and I was praying we would of drafted Sproul with 1 of our 2nd round picks but we traded them away.

 

[LaPlante94]

I think we have a Kronwall kind of player in Tom Nilsson. Probably won't be as good but it's a good comparison.

 

[jkrx]

I think we have a Kronwall kind of player in Tom Nilsson. Probably won't be as good but it's a good comparison.

He might be defensively but Tom Nilsson has no offensive upside at all.

 

[ricky0034]

Kulemin has the potential to be better than Franzen. At 25 Franzen wasn't even in the NHL yet, while at 24 Kulemin already has a 30 goal 58 point season on his resume.

Reimer had a similar rookie season to Howard.

Never said anything bad about Kronwall.

i'd say it's more likely that Franzen gets more consistent in the regular season and hits another level there than it is that Kulemin ever comes close to Franzen's best playoff performances

(not that I view either as all that likely)

I think we have a Kronwall kind of player in Tom Nilsson. Probably won't be as good but it's a good comparison.

isn't it a bit early to be saying things like that?

he was just drafted in the 4th round less than two months ago....

 

[ricky0034]

double post oops

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I think we have a Kronwall kind of player in Tom Nilsson. Probably won't be as good but it's a good comparison.

Nilsson is purely defensive, he has absolutely horrible offensive upside. Nilsson was ranked as the most hated prospect in our prospect training camp because he delivers nasty hits, ULF samuelsson type apparently.