Wings vs. Leafs prospect pools

[FrozenJagrt]

The former by far.

Only 18 skaters play at once, leaving room for only a few "grinders," players who are oftentimes easily available on waivers and on cheap UFA contracts. The small chance of getting a legit scorer is more valuable than a great chance at getting a "grinder".

And the opportunity to get someone who bottoms out as a serviceable third or fourth liner or peaks as a top six scorer is worse than an all or nothing scenario, that what you're driving at?

 

[Pneuma]

I swear when people evaluate Detroit's draftin all logic goes out the window. It's the same rehashed nonsense about not drafting a star since Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Not only has Detroit traded a ton of their first round picks but they also have the lowest average draft position of any team over the last 15 years. Next, people cling to the Datsyuk and Zetterberg argument, knowing full well that Detroit drafts high risk/high reward prospects. Thats the strategy. All it takes is one or two of these guys to pan out over the next few seasons. We have elite talent, we can afford to swing for the fences when a lot of other teams can't. It's to the point that I know if I open a thread about a Detroit prospect it's going to be nothing but our drafting is overrated.

Yeah, it's pretty overrated to build championship teams with homegrown players with almost no first round picks.

End of rant.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

The Leafs prospect pool is in the best shape it has been in years...that being said, who knows if these guys pan out. But as it stands right now, the Leafs have 5 recent first round picks waiting in the wings (Colborne, Gardiner, Kadri, Biggs, Percy), and I feel like that is more than we've had in a long time.

 

[sanityplease]

Hard to compare prospects as, Colborne, Blacker, McKegg, Ross, Biggs, D'Amigo, Frattin, Nicholls, Caputi could be projected to have top6f/4d potential, on the Leafs but may not make the Red Wings NHL club at all.

 

[RedMachine87]

I swear when people evaluate Detroit's draftin all logic goes out the window. It's the same rehashed nonsense about not drafting a star since Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Not only has Detroit traded a ton of their first round picks but they also have the lowest average draft position of any team over the last 15 years. Next, people cling to the Datsyuk and Zetterberg argument, knowing full well that Detroit drafts high risk/high reward prospects. Thats the strategy. All it takes is one or two of these guys to pan out over the next few seasons. We have elite talent, we can afford to swing for the fences when a lot of other teams can't. It's to the point that I know if I open a thread about a Detroit prospect it's going to be nothing but our drafting is overrated.

Yeah, it's pretty overrated to build championship teams with homegrown players with almost no first round picks.

End of rant.

Thank you!!! Couldn't of said it any better myself. The whole Detroit's drafting is overrated because they haven't drafted a Datsyuk or Zetterberg recently is what's getting overrated. I have nothing but confidence in the Wing's brass to discover and develop franchise talent when the time calls for it. There's a reason the Wings have made the playoffs twenty straight years. It's because whenever there is a hole in the lineup the FO fills it via the draft, trade, or free agency. When it comes time to replace Pav and Z, somebody will be waiting in the wings (no pun intended).

As for thread topic itself. I have no opinion as I haven't seen enough of both team's prospects to rank one pool over the other.

I have, however, seen both Jake Gardiner and Brendan Smith play. And I can definitely say anyone claiming Gardiner >/= Smith is off his/her rocker. Brendan was on a point per game pace as an AHL rookie this past season before he was injured. Smith has the potential to be a bigger/quicker/meaner version of Kronwall.

 

[Leafidelity]

Hard to compare prospects as, Colborne, Blacker, McKegg, Ross, Biggs, D'Amigo, Frattin, Nicholls, Caputi could be projected to have top6f/4d potential, on the Leafs but may not make the Red Wings NHL club at all.

Ironic name?

 

[ComradeChris]

Jarnkrok is Zetterberg 2.0. That alone should put us ahead of the Leafs.

 

[Future]

Why are people calling Aulie a potential top 4 defenseman when he came into the league last year and was put beside Phaneuf on the 1st defense pairing and he played great. He was fantastic and shut down other team's top players, and this was in his first 30 or so games in the NHL. His potential is as high as a great number 2 defender.

 

[newfy]

Why are people calling Aulie a potential top 4 defenseman when he came into the league last year and was put beside Phaneuf on the 1st defense pairing and he played great. He was fantastic and shut down other team's top players, and this was in his first 30 or so games in the NHL. His potential is as high as a great number 2 defender.

Because a short stint doesnt make a player good.

Ericcson got called a future Norris candidate by Bob Mackenzie after his first little bit in the NHL, safe to say he wont be. But he might still become a solid number 4 type guy

 

[TyBOZAK*]

I remember hearing Gardiner is supposed to become a top pairing OFD.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Tough to say. Both teams have some solid guys at the top and a lot of depth. I think both teams will get plenty of solid NHL players out of their current prospect groups..

I have no idea where the idea that the Wings are lacking in depth comes from though.

Forwards: Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Sheahan, Mursak, Nestrasil, Ferraro, Callahan, Emmerton, parkes, Aubry, Andersson, Axelsson, Coetzee, Hudon, Quine, Tvrdon

D-men: Smith, Sproul, Almqvist, Ouellet, Marshall, Fournier, Nicastro, backman, Jensen, lashoff, Marchenko, Nedomlel

Goalies: Mrazek, Larsson, McCollum

I only listed the players that have a chance at making the NHL. I understand that not all of them will make it, and that some have a much higher chance than others, but the notion that the Wings are lacking in depth is insane. This is the best prospect poll they've had in years. What they get from it remains to be seen, but the Wings future is looking good right now.

 

[squidz*]

Thank you!!! Couldn't of said it any better myself. The whole Detroit's drafting is overrated because they haven't drafted a Datsyuk or Zetterberg recently is what's getting overrated. I have nothing but confidence in the Wing's brass to discover and develop franchise talent when the time calls for it. There's a reason the Wings have made the playoffs twenty straight years. It's because whenever there is a hole in the lineup the FO fills it via the draft, trade, or free agency. When it comes time to replace Pav and Z, somebody will be waiting in the wings (no pun intended).

As for thread topic itself. I have no opinion as I haven't seen enough of both team's prospects to rank one pool over the other.

I have, however, seen both Jake Gardiner and Brendan Smith play. And I can definitely say anyone claiming Gardiner >/= Smith is off his/her rocker. Brendan was on a point per game pace as an AHL rookie this past season before he was injured. Smith has the potential to be a bigger/quicker/meaner version of Kronwall.

Detroit's drafting is overrated because almost every single Detroit fan (and a number of non-Detroit fans) comes into every thread and announces that "no-name Detroit pick from the sixth round" is guaranteed to be the next Datsyuk or Zetterberg. The thing you're whining about is the response to the idiocy claiming that everything Detroit touches turns to gold. Just look at ratings pre- and post- draft. Any player picked by Detroit suddenly shoots up from obscurity and becomes that guy that you think everyone else wishes they could have drafted.

 

[Benttheknee]

Detroit's drafting is overrated because almost every single Detroit fan (and a number of non-Detroit fans) comes into every thread and announces that "no-name Detroit pick from the sixth round" is guaranteed to be the next Datsyuk or Zetterberg. The thing you're whining about is the response to the idiocy claiming that everything Detroit touches turns to gold. Just look at ratings pre- and post- draft. Any player picked by Detroit suddenly shoots up from obscurity and becomes that guy that you think everyone else wishes they could have drafted.

Pulkkinen, drafted 4th last year. HF had him as the 34th best prospect. On the other hand I have seen him 6-7th on Detroits list as well.

Detroit Mystique, or super steal of 2010? It is hard to tell.

 

[mlm]

Toronto did not draft- Colborne, Aulie, Gardiner and Caputi. Just sayin...

 

[bionic]

Toronto did not draft- Colborne, Aulie, Gardiner and Caputi. Just sayin...

So what. They are still prospects. Also on a side note people keep putting Gardiner ahead of Blacker. I really think both these guys have a great chance to be top 4 PMD for the Leafs which once again speaks well for their depth.

 

[embracedbias]

Concerning the question of "which teams had the most success at the draft" I took the NHL draft history and focused on two stats: GP and Pts. I took the mean (average) GP and Pts for each team both from 1994-2009 and from 2000-2009. That gives us the average GP and Pts per draft pick. Next, I ranked the teams for each category. Finally, I added the ranks for GP and Pts and divided the result by 2. Here's the list:

1994-2009
Ottawa
San Jose
Buffalo
Florida
Boston
New Jersey
Colorado
NY Islanders
Anaheim
Pittsburgh
Vancouver
Los Angeles
Montreal
Toronto
Edmonton
Philadelphia
Dallas
Calgary
Nashville
Minnesota
Detroit
St. Louis
Tampa Bay
NY Rangers
Chicago
Atlanta
Carolina
Washington
Columbus
Phoenix

2000-2009
Buffalo
Pittsburgh
Minnesota
Philadelphia
Montreal
Los Angeles
Ottawa
Boston
Washington
San Jose
Toronto
Columbus
Anaheim
Atlanta
Colorado
Edmonton
Florida
Nashville
Chicago
Dallas
Calgary
NY Rangers
Carolina
NY Islanders
St. Louis
New Jersey
Detroit
Vancouver
Phoenix
Tampa Bay


Notes: It isn't very clean, but this is a rough estimation of drafting success. I didn't exclude goaltenders, so they contribute to the means for GP and Pts. It would be better to exclude them altogether, but I don't feel like doing the work.

Also, this isn't just 1st round drafting success. It's every round.

Pretty clear that Detroit is not as successful at the draft as people think. See for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Detroit_Red_Wings_draft_picks

 

[embracedbias]

Top forward prospects

Tatar + Kadri... Kadri was the higher pick but Tatar has exceeded all expectations. They had virtually the same production this year and Tatar became the youngest wing to score a goal since Jiri Fischer made the team as an 18 year old.

Virtually the same production?

Tatar
08/09 (Slovakia): 48 GP, 15 Pts
09/10 (AHL): 58 GP, 32 Pts
10/11 (AHL): 70 GP, 57 Pts / 10/11 (NHL): 9 GP, 1 Pt

Kadri
08/09 (OHL): 56 GP, 78 Pts
09/10 (OHL): 56 GP, 93 Pts
10/11 (AHL): 44 GP, 41 Pts / 10/11 (NHL): 29 GP, 12 Pts

Top Defenseman

Smith + Gardiner.. Smith wins this in a land slide. He is one of the better offensive defenseman prospects going and is tough. A kronwall that fights is what I'm thinking. Gardiner looks to be a number 4 guy, Smith may have that number 1 potential.

The difference between them isn't as big as you think it is.

Smith
Year after draft -> 07/08 (WCHA): 22 GP, 12 Pts
08/09 (WCHA): 31 GP, 23 Pts
09/10 (WCHA): 42 GP, 52 Pts
10/11 (AHL): 63 GP, 32 Pts

Gardiner
Year after draft -> 08/09 (WCHA): 39 GP, 21 Pts
09/10 (WCHA): 41 GP, 13 Pts
10/11 (WCHA): 41 GP, 31 Pts / 10/11 (AHL): 10 GP, 3 Pts

I don't see how you can say that one of those is a potential #1 while the other is a potential #4.

Top Goalie

Reimer + Mrazek or Larsson

Reimer takes this. Larsson however has been great in Europe and Mrazek had MVP type numbers in the OHL last season, no slouches by any means.

Smith easily wins over Gardiner, but Reimer "takes this"?

 

[embracedbias]

I swear when people evaluate Detroit's draftin all logic goes out the window. It's the same rehashed nonsense about not drafting a star since Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Not only has Detroit traded a ton of their first round picks but they also have the lowest average draft position of any team over the last 15 years. Next, people cling to the Datsyuk and Zetterberg argument, knowing full well that Detroit drafts high risk/high reward prospects. Thats the strategy. All it takes is one or two of these guys to pan out over the next few seasons. We have elite talent, we can afford to swing for the fences when a lot of other teams can't. It's to the point that I know if I open a thread about a Detroit prospect it's going to be nothing but our drafting is overrated.

Yeah, it's pretty overrated to build championship teams with homegrown players with almost no first round picks.

End of rant.

Everyone swings for the fences with late round picks.

Don't you see the fallacy in the argument there? You aren't evaluating the actual players in Detroit's prospect pool based on their individual merits... you're evaluating them based on what has happened with Detroit prospects in the past. By that logic, Toronto can expect to draft a Kaberle in the late rounds any year now. I mean, do you think nothing has changed in 15 years?

Do you feel like Detroit is destined to be a good team no matter what? Do you remember when St.Louis held the record for consecutive playoff appearances? Didn't save them once their team got too old, did it?

 

[Probie]

Virtually the same production?

Tatar
08/09 (Slovakia): 48 GP, 15 Pts
09/10 (AHL): 58 GP, 32 Pts
10/11 (AHL): 70 GP, 57 Pts / 10/11 (NHL): 9 GP, 1 Pt

Kadri
08/09 (OHL): 56 GP, 78 Pts
09/10 (AHL): 56 GP, 93 Pts
10/11 (AHL): 44 GP, 41 Pts / 10/11 (NHL): 29 GP, 12 Pts



The difference between them isn't as big as you think it is.

Smith
Year after draft -> 07/08 (WCHA): 22 GP, 12 Pts
08/09 (WCHA): 31 GP, 23 Pts
09/10 (WCHA): 42 GP, 52 Pts
10/11 (AHL): 63 GP, 32 Pts

Gardiner
Year after draft -> 08/09 (WCHA): 39 GP, 21 Pts
09/10 (WCHA): 41 GP, 13 Pts
10/11 (WCHA): 41 GP, 31 Pts / 10/11 (AHL): 10 GP, 3 Pts

I don't see how you can say that one of those is a potential #1 while the other is a potential #4.



Smith easily wins over Gardiner, but Reimer "takes this"?

Kadri
09/10 (AHL): 56 GP, 93 Pts[/b]
That should read OHL and not AHL. You cant compare ohl stats of a 19 year old whos competing in the OLH for his fourth consecutive year, to AHL stats of a 19 year old who is competing in NA for the first time in the AHL for the first time.

 

[embracedbias]

Kadri
09/10 (AHL): 56 GP, 93 Pts[/b]
That should read OHL and not AHL. You cant compare ohl stats of a 19 year old whos competing in the OLH for his fourth consecutive year, to AHL stats of a 19 year old who is competing in NA for the first time in the AHL for the first time.

Oops.

I just listed everything in order to be complete. The important comparison is 10/11 where Kadri pretty obviously has better stats. Keep in mind that his better numbers in the AHL last season is despite the fact that Tatar already had a full season in the AHL under his belt. Tatar is also 9 months older.

Kadri is also larger and more physical.

Oh, and Tatar was playing on a team with plenty of vets: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0026752011.html

Unlike Kadri: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0039912011.html

 

[Probie]

Everyone swings for the fences with late round picks.

NO not everyone swings for the fences with late round picks. Lots of teams use later round picks to select pugs, or players that have one thing that is nhl worthy but have everything else negatives and the risks heavily outweigh the rewards. Detroit uses pure smarts and superior european scouting to pick players overlooked or not noticed, that have serious skill, or good skills but have one or two negatives that could hold them back, but if the player overcomes these one or two things they can have a significant impact.

Picking Zetterberg and Datsyuk both were super skinny and unnoticed for the most part, but the skill was there, scouts missed out, and there was significant doubt if they would have the size to make it. They rolled the dice, both players dedicated themselves to the gym, they bulked out, and the superior talent that detroit spotted was able to flourish.

Tverdon, injured, but could have been a first round pick in terms of talent, roll the dice on with a fourth on the injury factor and if the injury and lack of exposure should never have been a factor in his draft positioning, then you get a first for the price of a fourth.

Teemu Pulkkinen: see Tverdon above in regards to injuries, with the additional lack of foot speed as a concern. A potential top 5 pick the year before the draft gets picked near the bottom of the 4th. If the injury bug was just a fluke then this is a serious steal is the rational of the wings when they made this pick. They also rolled the dice a bit on the speed and size a bit. Speed can be worked on and he already filled out to over 190 pounds a year after the draft. Its being smart and knowing when to roll the dice and at what position to maximize your return. Look where other teams are not scouting, and find the keepers. Detroit scouts the Swedish leagues, find some keepers, everyone catches on and start scouting the Swedish league, then detroit switches their attention to scout for Slovaks. Now, teams put too much emphasis on avoiding players with real skill that have injury concerns and these teams over do it in terms of dropping these players too far. Ok, Detroit sees this and takes advantage. Teemu Pulkkinen was basically 100% healthy this year and looked dominant. Tverdon could be the same as well. The wings are smarter, and are a step ahead of the others.

Looking at the draft history since 2000, both teams have traded away lots of their picks, but its quite obvious which team selects earlier in the draft sometimes quite considerably.

Look at the team success compared to one another the last 20 years, it has a lot to do with the players drafted.

Lets look from 1989 and onwards shall we in terms of elite players or star players.
Detroit: Lidstrom federov, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Kronwall (borderline star player).
Toronto: Potvin, Kaberle (like Kronwall, borderline star player).

You have six star players vs 2 being drafted, and detroits first four listed are mega talents. Franzen and kronwall cancel out more or less potvin and kaberle, so your left comparing Lids, feds, Z, and dats vs absolutely nothing.

There is no comparison especially considering the leafs consistently picked ahead of the wings in terms of position, and usually by a significant amount as well. What others have not mentioned is, because Detroit is drafting lower, all these picks in the later part of the 2000’s that haven’t made the nhl, well they will be soon, and its due to the longer development curve as a result of low draft position. They cant say the 2000’s have been mediocre for the wings until a couple more years come to pass, since Toronto and other teams with higher positions in the first are able to pick players that will reach the nhl sooner.

Shawn Matthias(traded), Dick Axelsson, Daniel Larsson , Jan Mursak

smith,

nyquist,

tatar,

Pulkkinen, jarnkrok, sheehan,


Those are our picks from 2006-2010, and even if half those make it, those players have such skill its going to be dramatic how much Detroit will benefit, and what talent they
will have (here is half):

Axellson (power forward 2nd line), Mursac (2nd/3rd line scorer with speed), smith(#2 defensemen with lots of scoring upside a lot like kronwall), tatar(25g-35a guy at worst), jarnkrok(zetterberg clone), nyquist(2nd line center with tonnes of playmaking ability).

Now these late round late bloomers added to detroits current 2000 year and on list already mentioned in the thread:
Howard, Kronwall, Filppula, Hudler, Helm, Franzen


The 2000-2010 draft results would look like this when its done if you count half the guys just mentioned directly above:
Howard, Kronwall, Filppula, Hudler, Helm, Franzen, + Axellson, Mursac, Smith, tatar, jarnkrok, nyquist.

That’s with detroit trading three of its first rounders away (no I'm not counting trading them down for more picks),as in gone via trade, and not traded down 1st rounder’s.


Look at toronto's prospects:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/toronto_maple_leafs

they didn’t even draft 5 out of their top 7 prospects, that’s right they drafted two of their top 7 prospects.

Looking at what Toronto has drafted in the last ten years, and not counting people traded for one could say Toronto might have the better prospect pool, but have not drafted as well as Detroit.

 

[McMatthews]

Leafs and Red Wings have a comparable prospect pool.

We just added Rick Dudley, possibly the best talent evaluator in the league.

 

[Lainlight]

Jarnkrok is Zetterberg 2.0. That alone should put us ahead of the Leafs.

This is actually the truth.

 

[embracedbias]

NO not everyone swings for the fences with late round picks. Lots of teams use later round picks to select pugs, or players that have one thing that is nhl worthy but have everything else negatives and the risks heavily outweigh the rewards. Detroit uses pure smarts and superior european scouting to pick players overlooked or not noticed, that have serious skill, or good skills but have one or two negatives that could hold them back, but if the player overcomes these one or two things they can have a significant impact.

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. Every team swings for the fences some of the time and drafts safe players some of the time. Including Detroit.

The part about Detroit having superior European scouting may have been corrrect 10 years ago, but it isn't anymore.

From 2000-2006*, Detroit has had 45 draft picks after and including the 4th round. Three of those players played in the NHL last season: Ericsson, Quincey, Helm.

In that same time period, Toronto has had 37 draft picks after and including the 4th round. 6 of those players played in the NHl last season: Wellwood, White, John Mitchell, Stralman, Reimer, Stalberg (and Gunnarsson from 2007).



*2006 gives plenty of time for the players to make the NHL. Those players are 23/24 now.

Tverdon, ...

Teemu Pulkkinen: ..

You can't use unproven players as evidence of Detroit superiority in late rounds. You are assuming that they will turn out because you think Detroit is superior in the late rounds. A bit circular, don't you think?

Looking at the draft history since 2000, both teams have traded away lots of their picks, but its quite obvious which team selects earlier in the draft sometimes quite considerably.

Look at the team success compared to one another the last 20 years, it has a lot to do with the players drafted.

Lets look from 1989 and onwards shall we in terms of elite players or star players.
Detroit: Lidstrom federov, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Kronwall (borderline star player).
Toronto: Potvin, Kaberle (like Kronwall, borderline star player).

You have six star players vs 2 being drafted, and detroits first four listed are mega talents. Franzen and kronwall cancel out more or less potvin and kaberle, so your left comparing Lids, feds, Z, and dats vs absolutely nothing.

I don't know where to start.

1) Why in the world would you choose 1989 as a date to start looking?..... Oh, that's when Lidstrom and Federov were drafted. Why not just make it an even 20 years. Here is a list of the significant players that Detroit has drafted since 1991:

Lapointe, Osgood, Knuble, McCarty, McGillis, Holmstrom, Dandenault, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kopecky, Kronwall, Hudler, Fleischmann, Filppula, Ericsson, Howard, Quincey, Franzen, Helm

Now here's a list from the Leafs:

Mironov, Perreault, Marshall, Jonsson, Modin, Berezin, Markov, Kaberle, Mair, Antropov, Ponikarovsky, Boyes, Colaiacovo, Wellwood, Steen, Stajan, White, Stralman, Rask, Kulemin, Reimer, Gunnarsson, Schenn

As you can see, the difference comes down to Datsyuk and Zetterberg. It is those two miraculous late round picks that have kept Detroit competitive after Yzerman and company left. Without that stroke of luck, Detroits drafting in the last 20 years would not have been very good at all.

The bad news for Detroit is that Europe is now heavily scouted. That's why Detroit hasn't drafted anyone who's likely to replace Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Players like that can't be found in the late rounds anymore.

2) Franzen is a star player but Kaberle is borderline? What the hell is wrong with you?

Franzen's (31 y/o) career stats: 395 GP, 219 Pts (0.55 PPG)
Including playoffs: 478 GP, 291 Pts (0.61 PPG)

Kaberle's (33 y/o) career stats: 902 GP, 529 Pts (0.59 PPG)
Including playoffs: 1004 GP, 568 Pts (0.57 PPG)

Ridiculous

There is no comparison especially considering the leafs consistently picked ahead of the wings in terms of position, and usually by a significant amount as well. What others have not mentioned is, because Detroit is drafting lower, all these picks in the later part of the 2000’s that haven’t made the nhl, well they will be soon, and its due to the longer development curve as a result of low draft position. They cant say the 2000’s have been mediocre for the wings until a couple more years come to pass, since Toronto and other teams with higher positions in the first are able to pick players that will reach the nhl sooner.

Yes, but Detroit hasn't done been spectacular in the late rounds of the draft since 2000. Which team has more 1st round picks is irrelevant to this discussion.

Shawn Matthias(traded), Dick Axelsson, Daniel Larsson , Jan Mursak

smith,

nyquist,

tatar,

Pulkkinen, jarnkrok, sheehan,


Those are our picks from 2006-2010, and even if half those make it, those players have such skill its going to be dramatic how much Detroit will benefit, and what talent they
will have (here is half):

Axellson (power forward 2nd line), Mursac (2nd/3rd line scorer with speed), smith(#2 defensemen with lots of scoring upside a lot like kronwall), tatar(25g-35a guy at worst), jarnkrok(zetterberg clone), nyquist(2nd line center with tonnes of playmaking ability).

Now these late round late bloomers added to detroits current 2000 year and on list already mentioned in the thread:
Howard, Kronwall, Filppula, Hudler, Helm, Franzen


The 2000-2010 draft results would look like this when its done if you count half the guys just mentioned directly above:
Howard, Kronwall, Filppula, Hudler, Helm, Franzen, + Axellson, Mursac, Smith, tatar, jarnkrok, nyquist.

That’s with detroit trading three of its first rounders away (no I'm not counting trading them down for more picks),as in gone via trade, and not traded down 1st rounder’s.

You could do this for every single team in the league. It is meaningless.

Look at toronto's prospects:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/toronto_maple_leafs

they didn’t even draft 5 out of their top 7 prospects, that’s right they drafted two of their top 7 prospects.

Looking at what Toronto has drafted in the last ten years, and not counting people traded for one could say Toronto might have the better prospect pool, but have not drafted as well as Detroit.

Why did you choose 7 as a cut-off? Oh, because we drafted 5 of our top 10. But wait, that list doesn't include our prospects from 2011.

Here's a better list:
1. Nazem Kadri
2. James Reimer
3. Joe Colborne
4. Keith Aulie
5. Jake Gardiner
6. Jesse Blacker
7. Greg McKegg
8. Stuart Percy
9. Tyler Biggs
10. Matt Frattin

There we go, 7 of the top 10 drafted by the Leafs.

That doesn't include Schenn, Gunnarsson, Kulemin, Stalberg, Rask or Stralman all drafted in 2005 or after and playing in the NHL.

Helm, Abdelkader, Matthias and Kindl have been drafted by Detroit in that time. Pretty impressive, eh?

 

[Pneuma]

Everyone swings for the fences with late round picks.

Don't you see the fallacy in the argument there? You aren't evaluating the actual players in Detroit's prospect pool based on their individual merits... you're evaluating them based on what has happened with Detroit prospects in the past. By that logic, Toronto can expect to draft a Kaberle in the late rounds any year now. I mean, do you think nothing has changed in 15 years?

Do you feel like Detroit is destined to be a good team no matter what? Do you remember when St.Louis held the record for consecutive playoff appearances? Didn't save them once their team got too old, did it?

I have no idea how you came to half those conclusions based upon my post considering I have yet to evaluate any of our prospects. Next, I'm old enough to have lived through the dead wing era so I've seen Detroit be an awful team. So please, do me a favor, and use the HF, "what have you done for me lately" mentality with someone else. I've gotten to watch the most sucessful team of the last two decades because of their drafting. I've also watched one of the worst teams in the league as a result of their horrendous drafting. The end game of drafting is winning and that's exactly what the Detroit method has given us. There's no telling whether we have another superstar waiting in the shadows but when people look back on this era of Red Wings hockey, the last thing they'll say, is that our Drafting was overrated.