Wings vs. Leafs prospect pools

[newfy]

Not meant to be a bash Toronto thread but I noticed in another thread Torontos prospects were getting some love.

I would like to know from (rational) Toronto fans, wings fans and some neutral fans which pool they think is better and why?

I personally think they are pretty much even but am wondering what others think.

Top forward prospects

Tatar + Kadri... Kadri was the higher pick but Tatar has exceeded all expectations. They had virtually the same production this year and Tatar became the youngest wing to score a goal since Jiri Fischer made the team as an 18 year old.

Top Defenseman

Smith + Gardiner.. Smith wins this in a land slide. He is one of the better offensive defenseman prospects going and is tough. A kronwall that fights is what I'm thinking. Gardiner looks to be a number 4 guy, Smith may have that number 1 potential.

Top Goalie

Reimer + Mrazek or Larsson

Reimer takes this. Larsson however has been great in Europe and Mrazek had MVP type numbers in the OHL last season, no slouches by any means.


Thats a quick look. After that Toronto has guys like Aulie who I think will be a number 4 Brad Stuart type, a solid goalie in Rynnas, Biggs whose offense is questioned but looks like a sure fire NHLer and Colborne of course.

Detroit has the rookie of the year from Sweden in Jarnkrok who will not spend time in the AHL, and from the SM Liiga Pulkkinen who just beat Selanne assist record for rookies and was a few points off his total.

I say a wash basically, argument can be made either way

Click to read more...

 

[BacklundtoBartschi*]

You have to look at the depth as well.

 

[Judas Tavares]

I feel like Detroit's has a lot more high risk and high reward while the Leafs have more sure things, though their potential may not be as high. Like I feel like the Wings could pull out some more Datsyuks and Zetterbergs with their prospects while they may not turn out, while the Leafs guys won't be superstars but they will be solid contributors.

 

[newfy]

You have to look at the depth as well.

If anything I give Detroit an edge in depth.

Guys like Nyquist, Hobey Baker finalist in his second year of NCAA hockey as opposed to a guy like Frattin who did it in his fourth.

Mursak who is going to make the NHL this year and gives Helm a run for his money speed wise.

Tomas Jurco who has HIGH end offensive potential etc.

The leafs may have a slight edge in top end guys but I take the wings for depth for sure

 

[BozakKadriKessel]

I think toronto has a very deep prospect pool. Alot of quality nhl d-men and a ton of role players and a odd top 6 player and a few with top six potential. Kadri has potential to be a special player. He is more suited at the wing and I think he is going to be a great playmaker. Colborne is a big center we rly need if he can bulk up we can see something we haven't got to see since the days of sundin. I know colborne is on the thin side but he needs to bulk up and I know now he is not as strong as sundin cause he was a monster down low when he had the puck... and gardiner is that fast offensive d-men that can make a special play. He just needs to sharpen up the defensive side.. Aulie seems to be another shutdown big d-man he and schenn have the power to shutdown top line players for many years... Reimer does not stick with me yet.. If he can do what he done last year again this year than I am finally sold on this guy... Than he has the potential to be a good solid number one goalie.. The leafs have a numerous amount of depth and many positions.. Goalie and defence is the deepest. They probably need a few more top notch players tho.. But in all a very good prospect pool..

 

[RomersWorld*]

Gardiner and Smith are pretty close talents. Neither are future #1 defensemen, but still. I know how much Wings fans like to overrated Brendan Smith but he isn't that far ahead of Gardiner.

Also, Kadri is clearly a better prospect than Tatar right now.

Overall, it is close. Detroit has so many question marks while Toronto has the safer prospects. Really is a toss up IMO.

 

[BozakKadriKessel]

If anything I give Detroit an edge in depth.

Guys like Nyquist, Hobey Baker finalist in his second year of NCAA hockey as opposed to a guy like Frattin who did it in his fourth.

Mursak who is going to make the NHL this year and gives Helm a run for his money speed wise.

Tomas Jurco who has HIGH end offensive potential etc.

The leafs may have a slight edge in top end guys but I take the wings for depth for sure

I would have to disagree here.. As players like jurco who do indeed have a high skill level was passed up for many reasons.. They guy had injuries if I recall.. Toronto done a good job drafting a power forward and a solid d-man.. I then toronto simply has a better prospect pool. Again I agree that toronto has a higher top end guys but to me toronto need a few more. I think depth is there actually strength. Top end guys are only... Kadri, gardiner, aulie (if u will consider him) Colborne. I would love a few more big players but the depth is rly there..

 

[BozakKadriKessel]

I feel like Detroit's has a lot more high risk and high reward while the Leafs have more sure things, though their potential may not be as high. Like I feel like the Wings could pull out some more Datsyuks and Zetterbergs with their prospects while they may not turn out, while the Leafs guys won't be superstars but they will be solid contributors.

Yea pretty much this

 

[newfy]

Gardiner and Smith are pretty close talents. Neither are future #1 defensemen, but still. I know how much Wings fans like to overrated Brendan Smith but he isn't that far ahead of Gardiner.

Also, Kadri is clearly a better prospect than Tatar right now.

Overall, it is close. Detroit has so many question marks while Toronto has the safer prospects. Really is a toss up IMO.

I wouldnt say Smith is overrated much. He is one of the premiere offensive defenseman prospects, stepped into the AHL and made the all star team as rookie, almost made the wings outta camp which never happens.

He is a very legit NHL prospect

 

[ComradeChris]

Jarnkrok + Pulkkinen = future Euro twins
Nyquist = potential #2 center
Tatar = top 6 winger
Mursak = top 6 winger with a vastly underrated shot and he has helm-like speed
Sheahan = Shutdown, big defensive forward
Callahan = Dmac 2.0
Smith = top pairing offensive dman with some snarl
Almqvist = potential to be a great top 4 dman but needs a little bulking up
Oulett = possible top 4
Sproul = unknown ceiling, but looks to be giving Almqvst and Oulett a run for their money
Larsson = better than Howard
Mrazek = elite OHL goalie that will be in the A next year

 

[Nizdizzle]

I wouldnt say Smith is overrated much. He is one of the premiere offensive defenseman prospects, stepped into the AHL and made the all star team as rookie, almost made the wings outta camp which never happens.

He is a very legit NHL prospect

Some very underwhelming players have made the AHL Allstar teams as rookies. Anton Stralman comes to mind. Actually, even Aulie made it.

 

[The Mauve Avenger]

I feel like Detroit's has a lot more high risk and high reward while the Leafs have more sure things, though their potential may not be as high. Like I feel like the Wings could pull out some more Datsyuks and Zetterbergs with their prospects while they may not turn out, while the Leafs guys won't be superstars but they will be solid contributors.

I was about to post this.

 

[QMJHLfollower]

Jarnkrok + Pulkkinen = future Euro twins
Nyquist = potential #2 center
Tatar = top 6 winger
Mursak = top 6 winger with a vastly underrated shot and he has helm-like speed
Sheahan = Shutdown, big defensive forward
Callahan = Dmac 2.0
Smith = top pairing offensive dman with some snarl
Almqvist = potential to be a great top 4 dman but needs a little bulking up
Oulett = possible top 4
Sproul = unknown ceiling, but looks to be giving Almqvst and Oulett a run for their money
Larsson = better than Howard
Mrazek = elite OHL goalie that will be in the A next year

Nazem Kadri= Potential first line playmaking winger
James Reimer= Potential very solid starting goaltender
Joe Colborne= Pontential big playmkaing second line center
Keith Aulie= Pontential top 4 physical shutdown defenseman
Jake Gardiner= Potential top 4 two-way defenseman with blazing speed
Matt Frattin= Potential top 6 physical sniper
Greg McKegg= Potential top 6 goal scorer
Jesse Blacker= Potential top 4 offensif defenseman
Tyler Biggs= Potential top 6 power forward/Physical 3rd liner that can score with leadership quality
Stuart Percy= Potential two-way top 4 defenseman
Brad Ross= Potential 3rd line agitator hitting machine
Ben Scrivens= Potential journeyman No. 1 goaltender
Jerry D'Amigo= Potential solid 3rd liner
Luca Caputi= Potential 3rd/4th liner that can score
Sondre Olden= Boom or bust, potential if boom very big skill top 6'er that can play all forward positions
Jussi Rynnas= Potenntial journeyman No. 1 goaltender
Korbinian Holzer= Potential solid physical shutdown bottom pairing defenseman
Kenny Ryan= Potential solid shutdown bottom 6'er
Josh Nicholls= Potential solid third liner with a good two-way game
Marcel Mueller= Potential big physical 3rd liner
Josh Leivo= Potential top 6 complementary player/Physical 3rd liner
Juraj Mikus= Potential big bottom paring offensif defenseman
Simon Gysbers= Potential big bottom pairing/number 4 offensif defenseman
David Broll= Potential big physical 4th liner that can fight
Petter Granberg= Potential physical bottom pairing shutdown defenseman
Tom Nillson= Potential physical bottom pairing shutdown defenseman
Jamie Devane= Pontential big physical 4th line heavyweight
Andrew MacWilliam= Potential bottom pairing shutdown defenseman who does everything well
Tyler Brenner= Potential big top 6 goal scorer/Big 3rd liner that can score
Mark Owuya= Potential decent backup goaltender
Andrew Crescenzi= Potential big physical 4th liner
Tony Cameranasi= Potential small skill top 6'er with blazing speed and grit
Daniel Brodin= Potential energy checking two-way bottom 6'er

 

[His Beardliness*]

Reimer is obviously the better goalie but otherwise Detroit takes the cake.

 

[Stephen]

I don't actually understand the point of a Leafs Wings comparison, because in my mind, Detroit is no benchmark to compare a rebuild to. The Wings are contenders who have also continued to add to their system the best they can, and have a nice cupboard of talent, but when you have been actively rebuilding for the past few years, it shouldn't be close.

Detroit is also extremely overrated. Outside of the Datsyuk and Zetterberg picks back in 1998 and 1999, the team doesn't exactly produce anything of exceptional calibre for a long time now. Guys like Howard, Kronwall, Filppula, Hudler, Helm, Franzen, etc. have all been very good picks, but most NHL teams, Leafs included have drafted and developed that quality and quantity of player.

 

[Dogkota]

Jarnkrok + Pulkkinen = future Euro twins
Nyquist = potential #2 center
Tatar = top 6 winger
Mursak = top 6 winger with a vastly underrated shot and he has helm-like speed
Sheahan = Shutdown, big defensive forward
Callahan = Dmac 2.0
Smith = top pairing offensive dman with some snarl
Almqvist = potential to be a great top 4 dman but needs a little bulking up
Oulett = possible top 4
Sproul = unknown ceiling, but looks to be giving Almqvst and Oulett a run for their money
Larsson = better than Howard
Mrazek = elite OHL goalie that will be in the A next year

This is an incredibly optimistic view of our prospect group. Remember that Jiri Hudler had an AHL season where he scored 96 points in 76 games and he came into Detroit as a very highly touted prospect. If we're lucky, maybe 1 of Pulu, Nyquist, Tatar or Jarnkrok will turn out to be a more productive NHLer than Jiri Hudler, let alone compare to Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Aside from the ludicrous notion that a late-round skilled player drafted by the Wings will automatically become a superstar, people on hfboards seem to have a really difficult time tempering their expectations when it comes to prospects. Brendan Smith is generating a lot of excitement right now, but I'd be willing to put money on the fact that he never surpasses Kronwall, let alone becomes the undisputed cornerstone on D.

 

[Megan Fox]

Jarnkrok + Pulkkinen = future Euro twins
Nyquist = potential #2 center
Tatar = top 6 winger
Mursak = top 6 winger with a vastly underrated shot and he has helm-like speed
Sheahan = Shutdown, big defensive forward
Callahan = Dmac 2.0
Smith = top pairing offensive dman with some snarl
Almqvist = potential to be a great top 4 dman but needs a little bulking up
Oulett = possible top 4
Sproul = unknown ceiling, but looks to be giving Almqvst and Oulett a run for their money
Larsson = better than Howard
Mrazek = elite OHL goalie that will be in the A next year

ComradeChris = wishful thinking

 

[Kopistar11]

La Kings fan here: personally I would say it's close but Toronto because Kadri, Gardiner, Blacker, Colbrone, Reimer, Mckegg and D'Amigo are a little more impressive then Tatar, Smith, Mursak, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Larsson and Nyquist.

Also Toronto I think has more of a deeper all around prospect pool while Detriot has a more skilled offensively pool but who knows they could have a player like Zettaburg or Datsyuk hiding that nobody knows about.

 

[Steve]

I'll agree with a lot of previous posters. Toronto seem to have a quite a few solid prospects (for the first time ever) however, Detroit will pull a Datsyuk or Zetterberg out of somewhere - this is a recording.

I think the Leafs players/depth is stronger, but Detroit's will develop into superior players.

 

[Matsens15]

Detroit are so good with prospect .. They could transform a 6 rounder guy in a superstar player!

 

[Phion Keneuf]

La Kings fan here: personally I would say it's close but Toronto because Kadri, Gardiner, Blacker, Colbrone, Reimer, Mckegg and D'Amigo are a little more impressive then Tatar, Smith, Mursak, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Larsson and Nyquist.

Also Toronto I think has more of a deeper all around prospect pool while Detriot has a more skilled offensively pool but who knows they could have a player like Zettaburg or Datsyuk hiding that nobody knows about.

yea i agree with this assesment ... Leafs have much more depth though imo... Biggs, Percy, Leivo, Scrivens, Olden, Frattin etc can all become good players as well (especially my boy Frattin)


* what do you think LA would be ranked in the next HF prospects rankings?

 

[Stephen]

I'll agree with a lot of previous posters. Toronto seem to have a quite a few solid prospects (for the first time ever) however, Detroit will pull a Datsyuk or Zetterberg out of somewhere - this is a recording.

I think the Leafs players/depth is stronger, but Detroit's will develop into superior players.

This is an old trope. Not taking anything away from Detroit's accomplishments, but they haven't produced a Zetterberg or Datsyuk since 1998 and 1999.

 

[RomersWorld*]

Also Toronto I think has more of a deeper all around prospect pool while Detriot has a more skilled offensively pool but who knows they could have a player like Zettaburg or Datsyuk hiding that nobody knows about.

True, but so could the Maple Leafs. Fact is, Detroit hasn't really developed an all star player like Datsyuk, Zetterberg in 8 years. You can only pull the "possible Datsyuk, Zetterberg" card for so long. I think scouting and particularly international scouting has somewhat evened out over the years(although obviously many teams still have an advantage). There is so much technology and money involved in international scouting where it is much more difficult to find that diamond in the ruff.

It is more luck to find that diamond in the 6th and 7th round. If a team was so sold that a player would become a possible superstar they would probably draft them much higher in fear of another team scooping him up. It just seems unrealistic to count on your team to find that kind of player that becomes a difference maker in the late rounds.

 

[Steve]

This is an old trope. Not taking anything away from Detroit's accomplishments, but they haven't produced a Zetterberg or Datsyuk since 1998 and 1999.

True, but they have consistently developed players for ages....they were just examples. They do a good job of finding some pretty decent players.

 

[Smif]

This is an old trope. Not taking anything away from Detroit's accomplishments, but they haven't produced a Zetterberg or Datsyuk since 1998 and 1999.

Ya the whole Detroit reputation for drafting is really getting old. Two players that turned into superstars over a decade ago needs to be re-assessed based on different players.