Wings to retire Red Kelly's #4

Bondurant

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
6,395
5,727
Phoenix, Arizona
If we would "inflate" the level of retired numbers, this would be my list:

#1 Sawchuck
#4 Kelly
#5 Lidström

#6 Aurie
#7 Lindsay
#9 Howe
#10 Delvecchio
#12 Abel

#13 Datsyuk
#16 Konstantinov
#19 Yzerman
#40 Zetterberg
#91 Fedorov

I would also consider putting #14 Shanahan there, but not Chelios.

Chelios would be an intriguing debate. I'd think he's most associated with Chicago in the eyes of fans yet he won his Cups in Montreal and Detroit. He even played here longer than in Chicago. There's also the Probert issue. He's the guy I think of if I imagine 24 being retired.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,150
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Philadelphia
I never thought this would happen. Kelly is the second best defenseman to ever play for this team, and he was an extremely influential player for our Stanley Cups of the 50’s. I understand his departure was a little messy from the organization, and I also believe his jersey retirement correlates to the attendance, but it’s good to see him get recognized. Zetterberg, Fedorov, and Datsyuk are next.

1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 16, 19, 40, 91

That is a bananas amount of numbers to have retired or out of circulation, but I have nothing but respect for that entire group.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
14,870
6,957
I never thought this would happen. Kelly is the second best defenseman to ever play for this team, and he was an extremely influential player for our Stanley Cups of the 50’s. I understand his departure was a little messy from the organization, and I also believe his jersey retirement correlates to the attendance, but it’s good to see him get recognized. Zetterberg, Fedorov, and Datsyuk are next.

1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 16, 19, 40, 91

That is a bananas amount of numbers to have retired or out of circulation, but I have nothing but respect for that entire group.

we really need to find a 2 an 8 and an 11

quick Kenny make a trade to get Smith back!

Cleary can come out of retirement and be the 11
 

Seider Town

Registered User
Aug 9, 2014
540
275
USA
Ticket sales must be down, need a promotional night to get people in the gates. Not saying it's not deserved or anything, he's an absolute legend but at this point if it hasn't been retired in the last 40 years why now if not for the chance to make a few dollars in revenue.
 

Pizza!Pizza!

Registered User
Sep 25, 2018
4,716
7,183
I never thought this would happen. Kelly is the second best defenseman to ever play for this team, and he was an extremely influential player for our Stanley Cups of the 50’s. I understand his departure was a little messy from the organization, and I also believe his jersey retirement correlates to the attendance, but it’s good to see him get recognized. Zetterberg, Fedorov, and Datsyuk are next.

1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 16, 19, 40, 91

That is a bananas amount of numbers to have retired or out of circulation, but I have nothing but respect for that entire group.

That's too many numbers for actual banners. I can see them unofficially retiring all of those, but the only ones I could see going to the rafters would be 40 and maybe 6. I think Datsyuk leaving while under contract and then still playing professional hockey overseas is going to block him even though he's the best player not yet up there.

Fedorov does not deserve to have his number hanging from the rafters. Period. I know he's one of the all time greats and was fun to watch, so unofficially they should take it out of circulation, but look at those names in the rafters - those guys were not just LEGENDS, but also great Wings personalities. Fedorov was a selfish douchebag in more ways than one. His contract dispute after winning the cup and what happened to Vlady shows how petty, greedy and self centered he was. Any normal hockey player/fan would love to play for a team that starts a season 10-1-2 after having just won a championship. Every member of that team was hungry to win again - except him. He always put the money first, which is forgivable for young kids that haven't gotten paid yet - but he'd been playing for half a decade and had his Nike sponsorship. He was already rich, but he still held out for more money and signed that offer sheet from Carolina (a basement team at the time). THEN after winning cup #3 with the team he does this: " Fedorov signed a free-agent contract with the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim for less than the Red Wings offered him after Detroit lost to Anaheim in the first round of the playoffs in 2003. ".

His talent and legacy with the team deserves pulling 91 out of circulation, but none of the players whose names hang in the Joe/LCA were ever disloyal to the club. Howe quitting his front office position (because the owner treated him like shit) was the only halfway negative thing any of those players did towards the DRW organization. Fedorov will never get retired there unless many more years pass and everyone forgets what a douche he was (similar to the Blues and Brett Hull - although Hull had legitimate reasons to trash talk STL on his way out the door).

Sorry for the 4am rant, but that Fedorov shit really triggers me. (PS. I've called him out to his face IRL so I don't feel like a dick talking shit about him online, got kicked out of front row seats but was worth it).
 
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jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,853
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That's too many numbers for actual banners. I can see them unofficially retiring all of those, but the only ones I could see going to the rafters would be 40 and maybe 6. I think Datsyuk leaving while under contract and then still playing professional hockey overseas is going to block him even though he's the best player not yet up there.

Fedorov does not deserve to have his number hanging from the rafters. Period. I know he's one of the all time greats and was fun to watch, so unofficially they should take it out of circulation, but look at those names in the rafters - those guys were not just LEGENDS, but also great Wings personalities. Fedorov was a selfish *****ebag in more ways than one. His contract dispute after winning the cup and what happened to Vlady shows how petty, greedy and self centered he was. Any normal hockey player/fan would love to play for a team that starts a season 10-1-2 after having just won a championship. Every member of that team was hungry to win again - except him. He always put the money first, which is forgivable for young kids that haven't gotten paid yet - but he'd been playing for half a decade and had his Nike sponsorship. He was already rich, but he still held out for more money and signed that offer sheet from Carolina (a basement team at the time). THEN after winning cup #3 with the team he does this: " Fedorov signed a free-agent contract with the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim for less than the Red Wings offered him after Detroit lost to Anaheim in the first round of the playoffs in 2003. ".

His talent and legacy with the team deserves pulling 91 out of circulation, but none of the players whose names hang in the Joe/LCA were ever disloyal to the club. Howe quitting his front office position (because the owner treated him like ****) was the only halfway negative thing any of those players did towards the DRW organization. Fedorov will never get retired there unless many more years pass and everyone forgets what a *****e he was (similar to the Blues and Brett Hull - although Hull had legitimate reasons to trash talk STL on his way out the door).

Sorry for the 4am rant, but that Fedorov **** really triggers me. (PS. I've called him out to his face IRL so I don't feel like a dick talking **** about him online, got kicked out of front row seats but was worth it).
Sergei Fedorov was arguably the most talented player to ever wear a Red Wings jersey.

I'm not ignoring the circumstances of his departure. But a Hart Trophy winner at forward that was also talented enough to succeed at playing defense in the NHL is a unicorn that you think VERY carefully about before dismissing his candicy for jersey retirement.

It might be years from now, but NEVER having 91 in the rafters would be a mistake.
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
14,718
8,241
Yzerman is a "wing"? 0_O

Yeah as in from an all time stand point as a player Kelly is better but Yzerman is a better red wing for being the captain, years here and some big playoff performances/playing through injuries
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
14,718
8,241
Ticket sales must be down, need a promotional night to get people in the gates. Not saying it's not deserved or anything, he's an absolute legend but at this point if it hasn't been retired in the last 40 years why now if not for the chance to make a few dollars in revenue.

I tihnk it has more to do with Mike dying and he seemed like a stickler for jersey retirements. I highly doubt theyre doing a promo night because attendance is hurting against the Leafs. I also dont think a jersey retirement is looked on very lightly in the organization. The wings have the toughest standard for getting a jersey retired
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
5,257
If we would "inflate" the level of retired numbers, this would be my list:

#1 Sawchuck
#4 Kelly
#5 Lidström

#6 Aurie
#7 Lindsay
#9 Howe
#10 Delvecchio
#12 Abel

#13 Datsyuk
#16 Konstantinov
#19 Yzerman
#40 Zetterberg
#91 Fedorov

I would also consider putting #14 Shanahan there, but not Chelios.
You missed #8 Abdelkader!
 

Sentinel

Registered User
May 26, 2009
12,758
4,588
New Jersey
www.vvinenglish.com
Yeah as in from an all time stand point as a player Kelly is better but Yzerman is a better red wing for being the captain, years here and some big playoff performances/playing through injuries
Oh, you meant "Red Wing." I don't see Kelly better as Yzerman in an all-time sense. That would be a very unorthodox position.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,150
2,369
Philadelphia
That's too many numbers for actual banners. I can see them unofficially retiring all of those, but the only ones I could see going to the rafters would be 40 and maybe 6. I think Datsyuk leaving while under contract and then still playing professional hockey overseas is going to block him even though he's the best player not yet up there.

Fedorov does not deserve to have his number hanging from the rafters. Period. I know he's one of the all time greats and was fun to watch, so unofficially they should take it out of circulation, but look at those names in the rafters - those guys were not just LEGENDS, but also great Wings personalities. Fedorov was a selfish *****ebag in more ways than one. His contract dispute after winning the cup and what happened to Vlady shows how petty, greedy and self centered he was. Any normal hockey player/fan would love to play for a team that starts a season 10-1-2 after having just won a championship. Every member of that team was hungry to win again - except him. He always put the money first, which is forgivable for young kids that haven't gotten paid yet - but he'd been playing for half a decade and had his Nike sponsorship. He was already rich, but he still held out for more money and signed that offer sheet from Carolina (a basement team at the time). THEN after winning cup #3 with the team he does this: " Fedorov signed a free-agent contract with the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim for less than the Red Wings offered him after Detroit lost to Anaheim in the first round of the playoffs in 2003. ".

His talent and legacy with the team deserves pulling 91 out of circulation, but none of the players whose names hang in the Joe/LCA were ever disloyal to the club. Howe quitting his front office position (because the owner treated him like ****) was the only halfway negative thing any of those players did towards the DRW organization. Fedorov will never get retired there unless many more years pass and everyone forgets what a *****e he was (similar to the Blues and Brett Hull - although Hull had legitimate reasons to trash talk STL on his way out the door).

Sorry for the 4am rant, but that Fedorov **** really triggers me. (PS. I've called him out to his face IRL so I don't feel like a dick talking **** about him online, got kicked out of front row seats but was worth it).


I’m not going to argue with you. You sure wrote a lot there and you’re very passionate on the subject, passionate enough to say this to Fedorov’s face. From my point of view, Fedorov is probably the sixth greatest Red Wing of all time. What he did is a byproduct of the NHL being a business, and for better or worse, what he did was what he thought was best for him. Ditto for Pavel. We would not have won three Stanley Cups without him, and we are on a real short list of t and to win more than one Cup over the last 30 years. I respect your passion here, and I know I’m not going to change your mind here. Old grudges die hard, but I definitely think it’d be really unfortunate if we left his number from the rafters.
 

Ricelund

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Apr 16, 2006
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This seems out of left field but I support it. My dad used to rave about how great Red Kelly was.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
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There's no defensible reason why his number wasn't retired earlier. I guess you could say you were only going to retire numbers for guys who were either the GOAT at their position or the game as a whole at the time - think Sawchuk and Howe - or guys who were lifers in Detroit. Kelly was a central piece of those 50s teams so it always seemed absurd that his number wasn't retired. I'm happy for him and his family though, that has to be quite a thrill.
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
14,718
8,241
Oh, you meant "Red Wing." I don't see Kelly better as Yzerman in an all-time sense. That would be a very unorthodox position.

I dont think a lot of people realize how good Kelly was. Just for an example, both the top 100 and top 70 players of all time lists on the history board have Kelly at 16th and 18th of all time. Mind you part of that includes his time with Toronto as well. But youre talking about the numbetr one D on a dynasty winning a bunch of cups, roughly 4 Norris trophies, at least one Conn Smythe.

If you actually get into the history of hockey its not that absurd of a position from a hockey stand point. From a red wing stand point Yzerman is well ahead but from an all time best players stand point Kelly is generally ranked ahead, hes that good.
 
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PelagicJoe

Registered User
Mar 20, 2012
2,131
558
St. Louis, MO
Long overdue. Congrats, Red. After that, get 6 and 91 up there. Might as well put 16 up there too since it doesn't get issued anyway.
After that, put 13 and 40 up too.
 

Sentinel

Registered User
May 26, 2009
12,758
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New Jersey
www.vvinenglish.com
I dont think a lot of people realize how good Kelly was. Just for an example, both the top 100 and top 70 players of all time lists on the history board have Kelly at 16th and 18th of all time. Mind you part of that includes his time with Toronto as well. But youre talking about the numbetr one D on a dynasty winning a bunch of cups, roughly 4 Norris trophies, at least one Conn Smythe.

If you actually get into the history of hockey its not that absurd of a position from a hockey stand point. From a red wing stand point Yzerman is well ahead but from an all time best players stand point Kelly is generally ranked ahead, hes that good.
I am a regular participant in the HOH discussions. Currently the 100 Greatest Players of All Time project is underway. We'll see how Kelly vs. Yzerman play out. I rank them close, but Yzerman is ahead. He had far greater competition for his hardware.
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
14,718
8,241
I am a regular participant in the HOH discussions. Currently the 100 Greatest Players of All Time project is underway. We'll see how Kelly vs. Yzerman play out. I rank them close, but Yzerman is ahead. He had far greater competition for his hardware.

Ok so then if you post on that board you should realize that that isnt an unorthodox stance to take at all. On the top 100 and top 70 project Kely was noticeably ahead of Yzerman. You yourself said theyre close, so how unorthodox is it for others to have Kelly ahead?
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,767
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I highly doubt this is being done to boost attendance for one game! First off, how many people nowadays are even going to a night like this, for a player they never saw play, and retired many many years ago? They probably decided it was time. Not everything franchises do, is some negatively done conspiracy.

What, are maybe 20 more people going to show up?
 

Ingvar

Registered User
Jan 16, 2016
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Moscow
If we would "inflate" the level of retired numbers, this would be my list:

#1 Sawchuck
#4 Kelly
#5 Lidström

#6 Aurie
#7 Lindsay
#9 Howe
#10 Delvecchio
#12 Abel

#13 Datsyuk
#16 Konstantinov
#19 Yzerman
#40 Zetterberg
#91 Fedorov

I would also consider putting #14 Shanahan there, but not Chelios.

Aurie is not needed. Retire #5 Ebbie Goodfellow instead (Hart, 2x1st and 2nd all star, captain, 3 cups, last one as a player-coach)
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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I highly doubt this is being done to boost attendance for one game! First off, how many people nowadays are even going to a night like this, for a player they never saw play, and retired many many years ago? They probably decided it was time. Not everything franchises do, is some negatively done conspiracy.

What, are maybe 20 more people going to show up?

I'm with you. I don't think this is an attendance ploy. They have no problem selling tickets for Leafs games. I do think they want to celebrate the greats during a time when things might not feel great.

I also believe they might have realized if they were ever going to honor Red, at age 91, there's no time like the present.
 

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