Wings sign Filppula to a 2 year deal

[obey86]

Per that CBC article (in the link provided), Cleary was initially offered a 3-year deal from Detroit as well.

Keep in mind it was months between that initial offer and what he eventually settled for. But the point stands, even at 34 HOLLAND was willing to give him a 3 year deal.

Cleary was the one who rejected the offer and accepted more money from Philly. Only to return to Detroit for less.

Ah, now you want to hold hypothetical contracts that never materialized against Ken Holland, lol. Using that logic, he deserves credit for offering contracts to Ryan Suter and Marian Hossa before they signed elsewhere.

Regardless of your mental gymnastics, my original point was Ken Holland has never signed a 34/35 year old to five year contract like someone was saying he would probably do if he had signed Filppula. And even though we're pretending he signed Cleary to a three year deal when he really didn't, that's not a five year contract. Hell, before his "three year contract" Dan Cleary was even coming off a season with the same exact amount of points as Filppula had last year.

That's not a materially different deal than what Yzerman signed Filppula to this offseason (34 year old, three year contracts vs. 35 year old, two year contract) - in fact, even though it was one year longer than Filppula's deal it's maybe even a bit less risky due to not being a 35+ contract.

 

[obey86]

Was it only 2 years ago that the Red Wings traded Sheahan because they were over the cap once Athanasiou agreed to his $1.4M/Y deal?

That's gross mismanagement, any way you slice it.

And for what? So we could use Trevor Daley instead of Xavier Ouellet?
Couldn't we have just gone
Dekeyser-Green
Kronwall-Jensen
Ouellet-Ericsson

Would we have been any worse off today? The answer is "no."

The fact that Holland and a cruddy Red Wings went into 2017-18 without enough cap room to pay Athanasiou his piddly $1.4 cap hit... is all you need to know about about poorly managed this franchise was.

Holland didn't need to spend on Daley. But, he had caproom, so he spent.

How is trading a player who has no future in Detroit, and actually getting a decent draft pick (3rd round pick) out of the deal for a terrible player "gross mismanagement?" That's absolutely ridiculous.

Bottom tier players are moved by every team across the league if needed to make room on the roster. The writing was on the wall for his Detroit career after two terrible seasons in a row, including almost going without a goal in 80 games. It's a surprise he wasn't traded before the season started to be honest.

 

[Mlotek]

Regardless of your mental gymnastics, my original point was Ken Holland has never signed a 34/35 year old to five year contract like someone was saying he would probably do if he had signed Filppula. And even though we're pretending he signed Cleary to a three year deal when he really didn't, that's not a five year contract. Hell, before his "three year contract" Dan Cleary was even coming off a season with the same exact amount of points as Filppula had last year.

That is incorrect.

Cleary was coming off a 13 point season, granted it was lockout shortened, but even if you extrapolate that pace it doesn't match Filps production from last season.

Your statement was that "Cleary could ONLY get 1 year deals at age of 34" which is incorrect, as he had offers from both Detroit/Philadelphia.

I am not talking about 5 year contracts or any bs like that. I am simply disproving your assessment that Cleary could ONLY get 1 year deals at age of 34.

 

[obey86]

That is incorrect.

Cleary was coming off a 13 point season, granted it was lockout shortened, but even if you extrapolate that pace it doesn't match Filps production from last season.

Your statement was that "Cleary could ONLY get 1 year deals at age of 34" which is incorrect, as he had offers from both Detroit/Philadelphia.

I am not talking about 5 year contracts or any bs like that. I am simply disproving your assessment that Cleary could ONLY get 1 year deals at age of 34.

You are correct about the 33 point season, got the years mixed up. Cleary did have a very good playoff (10 points in 14 games) the year he put up 15 points/48 games though, indicating he may not be totally washed up yet.

Please re-read what I said in my previous post. My entire post was in the context of how Ken Holland has never given a 34/35 year old a five year contract, like was being implied as something Ken Holland was likely to do. I only used Cleary as an example, because even though he was basically Ken Holland's most beloved son, even he wasn't able to get a five year contract. Whether he actually got a three year contract or a one year contract is irrelevant to the larger point that he didn't get a five year contract. I don't care about the Flyers, they aren't Ken Holland, and no deal was ever signed anyways.

Ken Holland only signed Dan Cleary to one year contracts when he reached the age of 33. He didn't sign him to a five year contract, he didn't sign him to a three year contract. Period. Rumored contract offers are just that, rumors. As far as I can tell, Ken Holland has never signed a 35 year old to a five year contract (correct me if i'm wrong), making this "Holland totally would have signed Filppula to a five year deal this offseason if he was still GM, because that's what he did!!!" talk totally bogus.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Was it only 2 years ago that the Red Wings traded Sheahan because they were over the cap once Athanasiou agreed to his $1.4M/Y deal?

That's gross mismanagement, any way you slice it.

Sheahan was going to be gone anyway, and the cap wasn't limiting them from signing AA. Had AA signed over the summer, they go into their 10% allowance over the limit and move Sheahan before the season starts. If anything, they kept him around as a "placeholder" for AA so they could stay close to the limit and get the max LTIR and SOIR relief for Franzen and Bertuzzi.

Even in your hypothetical of foregoing Daley (I would've picked Vanek...) and having enough space to sign AA and not have to trade Sheahan, Holland still would've gotten roasted for something. For either not trading him when his value was higher and teams were interested at the 2017 deadline "Bad asset management!", or for qualifying him and giving him a raise and some term if he rebounds for a year and then regresses (like he did with the Pens) "Bad contract!"

On the Daley signing:

The three-year deal offers the Wings a solid bridge to the not-too-distant future when they expect defensemen like Filip Hronek, Vili Saarijarvi and perhaps even one or two of their most recent draft picks - Gustav Lindstrom, Kasper Kotkansalo, Malte Setkov, Cole Fraser and Reilly Webb - to be ready for the NHL.

If Yzerman's GM for that signing, Daley's a "placeholder".

 

[Konnan511]

This is fun Filppula talk.

 

[Mlotek]

This is fun Filppula talk.

Too bad they never called up Filppula from Grand Rapids.

Together they would have made a wonderful duo.

 

[InjuredChoker]

You are correct about the 33 point season, got the years mixed up. Cleary did have a very good playoff (10 points in 14 games) the year he put up 15 points/48 games though, indicating he may not be totally washed up yet.

he was definitely washed. he got those points bc babs insisted on playing him with zeta and/or datsyuk and had lot of pp time. the goals he scored bounced off his body parts or where relative or literally empty netters. he continued to lose ton of puck battles like he did in the regular season and his skating was so bad that he was behind the play a lot.

not that this flip deal isn't stupid but back then we were still trying to contend/rebuild on the fly and that cap space/roster spot should've been used on someone that wasn't negative on the ice.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Was it only 2 years ago that the Red Wings traded Sheahan because they were over the cap once Athanasiou agreed to his $1.4M/Y deal?

That's gross mismanagement, any way you slice it.

And for what? So we could use Trevor Daley instead of Xavier Ouellet?
Couldn't we have just gone
Dekeyser-Green
Kronwall-Jensen
Ouellet-Ericsson

Would we have been any worse off today? The answer is "no."

The fact that Holland and a cruddy Red Wings went into 2017-18 without enough cap room to pay Athanasiou his piddly $1.4 cap hit... is all you need to know about about poorly managed this franchise was.

Holland didn't need to spend on Daley. But, he had caproom, so he spent.

Wow, this is bad.

1) Losing Riley Sheahan isn't gross mismanagement. Sheahan had 13 points in 88 games. 2 goals in 88 games.
2) I remember the calculations at the time. We could have kept both with AA signed at 1.68... we just would have had literally zero room for player movement for a bit.

Gross mismanagement is having to trade away Teuvo Teraveinen because you need Bryan Bickell gone. Gross mismanagement is signing a goalie to 3x4.5 and the team immediately looking to move on from it. Gross mismanagement is dealing Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.

And while we might not have been worse off with Ouellet instead of Daley... would we be demonstrably better now? Xaiver Ouellet was a garbage NHL defenseman. It's why Montreal sent him down to the AHL after 19 games last year.

You are picking some weird ass hills to die on. There are several VERY good indicators of how the Wings screwed up in managing the roster. Trading Sheahan isn't one of them.

They had the room for AA and to keep Sheahan. If Sheahan was anything more than a dime a dozen guy, they'd have done more to keep him. Holland even said it when he dealt him. "The window of opportunity is only open for so long for a guy".

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

he was definitely washed. he got those points bc babs insisted on playing him with zeta and/or datsyuk and had lot of pp time. the goals he scored bounced off his body parts or where relative or literally empty netters. he continued to lose ton of puck battles like he did in the regular season and his skating was so bad that he was behind the play a lot.

not that this flip deal isn't stupid but back then we were still trying to contend/rebuild on the fly and that cap space/roster spot should've been used on someone that wasn't negative on the ice.

This Flip deal ISN'T stupid. When, not if, the Wings get injuries racked up, you need guys who can step in so your team can remotely be competitive in games. See when the top 4D (who are all trash players) were out last year. The Wings lost games in big ways during that period.

 

[InjuredChoker]

This Flip deal ISN'T stupid. When, not if, the Wings get injuries racked up, you need guys who can step in so your team can remotely be competitive in games. See when the top 4D (who are all trash players) were out last year. The Wings lost games in big ways during that period.

signing a player like flip is ok/good, giving him 2 years with NTC is stupid.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

signing a player like flip is ok/good, giving him 2 years with NTC is stupid.

Why?

If Filppula wants to play for a good team, he'll waive that clause. And the only type of team that'll come sniffing after a guy like Filppula is a contender trying to plug a last minute hole. People get so antsy about NTCs when it's not warranted. NTC won't have to be protected in expansion draft. And boohoo, we won't get a 4th round pick for flipping him.

 

[newfy]

signing a player like flip is ok/good, giving him 2 years with NTC is stupid.

He ha a modified no trade clause the second year of his contract where he can pick 8 teams not to go to. I dont know how anyone can be upset about signing him to only 2 years when the wings are going nowhere and have plenty of cap coming off the books. Hes a placeholder for a guy like Veleno and thats it. The entirety of Filppulas stay in Detroit, the wings will be a basement dweller

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Wow, this is bad.

1) Losing Riley Sheahan isn't gross mismanagement. Sheahan had 13 points in 88 games. 2 goals in 88 games.
2) I remember the calculations at the time. We could have kept both with AA signed at 1.68... we just would have had literally zero room for player movement for a bit.

Gross mismanagement is having to trade away Teuvo Teraveinen because you need Bryan Bickell gone. Gross mismanagement is signing a goalie to 3x4.5 and the team immediately looking to move on from it. Gross mismanagement is dealing Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.

And while we might not have been worse off with Ouellet instead of Daley... would we be demonstrably better now? Xaiver Ouellet was a garbage NHL defenseman. It's why Montreal sent him down to the AHL after 19 games last year.

You are picking some weird ass hills to die on. There are several VERY good indicators of how the Wings screwed up in managing the roster. Trading Sheahan isn't one of them.

They had the room for AA and to keep Sheahan. If Sheahan was anything more than a dime a dozen guy, they'd have done more to keep him. Holland even said it when he dealt him. "The window of opportunity is only open for so long for a guy".

I don't think he means that it was gross mismanagement because we lost Sheahan but because it was such a shitty team and we didn't have enough cap space to pay one of our best and most important (to the rebuild) players and had to have him miss TC and some of the season.
Definitely gross mismanagement.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't think he means that it was gross mismanagement because we lost Sheahan but because it was such a ****ty team and we didn't have enough cap space to pay one of our best and most important (to the rebuild) players and had to have him miss TC and some of the season.
Definitely gross mismanagement.

Again, how is it gross mismanagement that Darren Ferris was dicking around with trying to get a contract from the KHL? Are we going to forget that part of the discussion? AA was pushing for double for what he settled for. Ferris put him up to looking to the KHL to get it. The Wings could have signed him for up to 1.68m and had no issues. Not have to trade Sheahan, nothing. AA wanted more than that and he wasn't justfied in asking for it due to Connor Brown, Sam Bennett, and others. It was not the issue on the Wings side of the table to not have enough money. AA wanted more than his comparables justified. And since Larkin was coming up, Mantha was coming up, etc. They didn't want to set a precendent of "be an unhelpful pud, get a bigger contract", so they held firm.

And at that point, AA wasn't "one of the most important pieces to the rebuild". He was an RFA with compete issues who wanted more than his comparables bore out. He buckled down and answered most of the questions about him... but to act like they didn't exist is hindsight to the max.

Hell, it would have been gross mismanagement to kowtow to Ferris and AA's attempt to push through the 2x2.5 because of an offer from the KHL.

 

[MBH]

Wow, this is bad.

1) Losing Riley Sheahan isn't gross mismanagement. Sheahan had 13 points in 88 games. 2 goals in 88 games.
2) I remember the calculations at the time. We could have kept both with AA signed at 1.68... we just would have had literally zero room for player movement for a bit.

I don't care about losing Sheahan.
That's not the point, even if it's worth noting that the Red Wings found away to make Sheahan, Jurco, Mrazek and other young players regress badly.

The point is that a non-playoff team was up against the cap so hard that it had to trade a $2M player just to sign an RFA holdout who got payed around $1.5M.

That's hideous.

Gross mismanagement is having to trade away Teuvo Teraveinen because you need Bryan Bickell gone. Gross mismanagement is signing a goalie to 3x4.5 and the team immediately looking to move on from it. Gross mismanagement is dealing Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.

Moves like that happen when you win a couple cups.

And while we might not have been worse off with Ouellet instead of Daley... would we be demonstrably better now? Xaiver Ouellet was a garbage NHL defenseman. It's why Montreal sent him down to the AHL after 19 games last year.

Well, for one thing, Montreal has better defensemen than us.
Montreal didn't invest a draft pick and 5 years of development into XO before deciding to toss him out like an old piece of fruit after a pretty successful rookie campiagn.

You are picking some weird ass hills to die on. There are several VERY good indicators of how the Wings screwed up in managing the roster. Trading Sheahan isn't one of them.

I'm not dying on any hills, friend.
I'm pointing out how f***ed up the Red Wings roster was only last season.
A non-playoff team, with a cap-hit so high, that they couldn't even afford an RFA who signed for $1.5M.

You can minimize Holland's ineptitude all you like.

They had the room for AA and to keep Sheahan. If Sheahan was anything more than a dime a dozen guy, they'd have done more to keep him. Holland even said it when he dealt him. "The window of opportunity is only open for so long for a guy".

When you tie your own hands with stupid salaries and you're forced to trade away a 6'2, 215 pound center while his value is lowest, you've f***ed up.

Anyway, I'm done with this argument.
Holland, thankfully, is gone.

I choose to honor him for the fine work he did. And criticize him for the crap work he did.

Pretending that he's "set them up for future success?"
You know how many teams have prospects? Every team that finishes out of the playoffs for 3 straight years has prospects.

Holland and Tyler Wright are gone.
Let's hope Yzerman can turn this thing around.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Montreal didn't invest a draft pick and 5 years of development into XO before deciding to toss him out like an old piece of fruit after a pretty successful rookie campiagn.

Weird flex, but ok...

You know teams do this all the time right? Even the infallible Steve Yzerman tossed out rotten plums like Koekkoek, Dotchin and Barberio after years of development and similarly "successful" (by your measuring stick) rookie campaigns...

Ouellet's sophomore campaign was a train wreck... One that he was paid handsomely in to take a regular 3rd pairing role, which he lost to Luke Witkowski by seasons end... Should Holland have kept him around and given him another kick at the can instead of giving Cholowski or Hronek extended time at the NHL level?

Was it also inept to throw Cory Emmerton away like a brown banana to give Joakim Andersson a regular role after 7+ years of development? Were you sad?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Why?

If Filppula wants to play for a good team, he'll waive that clause. And the only type of team that'll come sniffing after a guy like Filppula is a contender trying to plug a last minute hole. People get so antsy about NTCs when it's not warranted. NTC won't have to be protected in expansion draft. And boohoo, we won't get a 4th round pick for flipping him.

bc of the extra year, it's going to be hard to sell him this year. next year is more manageable assuming he doesn't completely fall off.

4th rounder is better than nothing. even better if we had gone after player(s)/deals that could've/would've net more than that.

 

[vladdy16]

Fil has been extremely consistent and durable. Has an adaptable game and is a consumate pro.

We have so many auditions coming up at center, I love the fact that we have an adaptable veteran to eat a spot to give the young guys time, or move over and show the ropes.

Correlating this move at this time to anything that happened in the Babcock era is superficial and lazy imo, as well as a discredit to the body of work 51 has ammassed recently/thus far.

 

[MBH]

Weird flex, but ok...

You know teams do this all the time right? Even the infallible Steve Yzerman tossed out rotten plums like Koekkoek, Dotchin and Barberio after years of development and similarly "successful" (by your measuring stick) rookie campaigns...

Ouellet's sophomore campaign was a train wreck... One that he was paid handsomely in to take a regular 3rd pairing role, which he lost to Luke Witkowski by seasons end... Should Holland have kept him around and given him another kick at the can instead of giving Cholowski or Hronek extended time at the NHL level?

Was it also inept to throw Cory Emmerton away like a brown banana to give Joakim Andersson a regular role after 7+ years of development? Were you sad?

I won't tell you how to hockey fan, but you're gonna be better at it if you don't base opinions on Jeff Blashill's player usage.
That Blashill played Witkowski, his hunting and fishing guide, over Ouellet, had very little to do with anyone's on-ice play.

When you're a rebuilding team, and you've got 23 and 24 year olds struggling to get to get in the lineup while overpaid veterans lead the charge into the cellar, the answer isn't to dump the 23 and 24 year olds.

Anyway. here's how Ouellet ranked in 2016-17 and 2017-18.
You look at the numbers and tell me if Ouellet was a train wreck.

16-17 - As a rookie:
* tied for second in 5 on 5 points.
* third in in even-strength points/60 - more than Marchenko (another guy cut too soon), Ericsson, Kronwall, Dekeyser and Smith.
* 2nd in CF%
* 2nd in GF%
* 2nd in goals against/60.

So, somehow, after a pretty decent rookie season, he gets completely thrown out of the lineup. Despite rarely getting regular minutes and despite having a mom with a terminal illness, Ouellet in 2017-18:
* Second in points/60, better than Jensen, Kronwall, Dekeyser, Ericsson, Daley
* Second in CF% - better than Dekyser, Kronwall, Green, Ericsson and Daley.
* Second best GF%, better than Ouellet, Green, Daley, Kronwall, Jensen and Ericsson.

So, when you say Ouellet had a "train wreck" of a sophomore season... my goodness.
If he did, what does that say about the all the defensemen that Blashill decided to play more often?

And look, I don't think XO was ever going to be anything special.
But if he was still here playing today, we probably don't need Nemeth.

We've got homegrown XO being our 2 or 3LD until Cholowski/McIsaac are ready to take the job from him.

But even if you disagree with that.

Tell me, what have we gained with Trevor Daley?

And don't be condescending with this "infallible Yzerman" stuff.
I don't think Yzerman is infallible. I've never pretended he was.
I think it's quite possibly he f***ed up our first two picks of the draft, based on the scouting reports I've seen, limited play I've seen, and Yzerman's track record. (I also think based on our picks and Yzerman's track record, that we might have a later round steal)

I think Yzerman is a better GM for the modern era than Holland has been for the last 10 years. But your comparison of Holland trading away/waiving young guys to Yzerman doesn't make sense.

Yzerman was a cup favorite, juggling assets to keep a cap-tight team in contention.
Holland had a bloated lottery team.

 

[deca guard]

I won't tell you how to hockey fan, but you're gonna be better at it if you don't base opinions on Jeff Blashill's player usage.
That Blashill played Witkowski, his hunting and fishing guide, over Ouellet, had very little to do with anyone's on-ice play.

When you're a rebuilding team, and you've got 23 and 24 year olds struggling to get to get in the lineup while overpaid veterans lead the charge into the cellar, the answer isn't to dump the 23 and 24 year olds.

Anyway. here's how Ouellet ranked in 2016-17 and 2017-18.
You look at the numbers and tell me if Ouellet was a train wreck.

16-17 - As a rookie:
* tied for second in 5 on 5 points.
* third in in even-strength points/60 - more than Marchenko (another guy cut too soon), Ericsson, Kronwall, Dekeyser and Smith.
* 2nd in CF%
* 2nd in GF%
* 2nd in goals against/60.

So, somehow, after a pretty decent rookie season, he gets completely thrown out of the lineup. Despite rarely getting regular minutes and despite having a mom with a terminal illness, Ouellet in 2017-18:
* Second in points/60, better than Jensen, Kronwall, Dekeyser, Ericsson, Daley
* Second in CF% - better than Dekyser, Kronwall, Green, Ericsson and Daley.
* Second best GF%, better than Ouellet, Green, Daley, Kronwall, Jensen and Ericsson.

So, when you say Ouellet had a "train wreck" of a sophomore season... my goodness.
If he did, what does that say about the all the defensemen that Blashill decided to play more often?

And look, I don't think XO was ever going to be anything special.
But if he was still here playing today, we probably don't need Nemeth.

We've got homegrown XO being our 2 or 3LD until Cholowski/McIsaac are ready to take the job from him.

But even if you disagree with that.

Tell me, what have we gained with Trevor Daley?

And don't be condescending with this "infallible Yzerman" stuff.
I don't think Yzerman is infallible. I've never pretended he was.
I think it's quite possibly he ****ed up our first two picks of the draft, based on the scouting reports I've seen, limited play I've seen, and Yzerman's track record. (I also think based on our picks and Yzerman's track record, that we might have a later round steal)

I think Yzerman is a better GM for the modern era than Holland has been for the last 10 years. But your comparison of Holland trading away/waiving young guys to Yzerman doesn't make sense.

Yzerman was a cup favorite, juggling assets to keep a cap-tight team in contention.
Holland had a bloated lottery team.

redwings had quellet for years and knew he was an ahler . they also knew wiski was no more than a borderline nhler energy enforcer type . they knew neither were going to ever be important factors and at that time wings needed some size and ruggedness on a soft d corps . theres nothing more to it than that , it wasnt some type meanigful mistake made by blash or the redwings that your trying to dramatize and judge them into making . heres a tip for you = gms and coaches dont come out and say a players onlly going to be ahl level , they build him up publically every time . and how you get to dragging nemeth into this ive no idea . and in first place ouellets in ahl and nemeths an nhler and way different type of dman than xo and the type rugged net front guy we need and would still need if xo was here . and xo has no nhl future , where as nemeth could be our long term pk guy

 

[Mlotek]

redwings had quellet for years and knew he was an ahler . they also knew wiski was no more than a borderline nhler energy enforcer type . they knew neither were going to ever be important factors and at that time wings needed some size and ruggedness on a soft d corps . theres nothing more to it than that , it wasnt some type meanigful mistake made by blash or the redwings that your trying to dramatize and judge them into making . heres a tip for you = gms and coaches dont come out and say a players onlly going to be ahl level , they build him up publically every time . and how you get to dragging nemeth into this ive no idea . and in first place ouellets in ahl and nemeths an nhler and way different type of dman than xo and the type rugged net front guy we need and would still need if xo was here . and xo has no nhl future , where as nemeth could be our long term pk guy

XO is still a serviceable 6th/7th D-man so stating he has no future in NHL is kind of short sighted.

He might not have a bright future in the NHL, but I think Montreal might continue using him for a few more years.

 

[13to40]

Without checking the dates, it’s easy to tell we are smack in the middle of the summer with no exciting hockey related, just by how this thread is going.

I think the signing is perfect. Short term. Not a high AAV. Veteran guy to take some pressure off our younger players when need be. Veteran guy to help our younger players get passed their growing pains. He can and probably will be shipped off for assets come March of this season or the following.... what more can one want in a signing from a bad rebuilding hockey team.

 

[Claypool]

Veteran guy to help our younger players get passed their growing pains.

Larkin, Mantha, AA, Bert, etc. don't need more vets to teach them how to play pro hockey. They are now, and have been, the leaders of the team. Signing more, washed up vets isn't going to help anyone.

 

[Ezekial]

XO is still a serviceable 6th/7th D-man so stating he has no future in NHL is kind of short sighted.

He might not have a bright future in the NHL, but I think Montreal might continue using him for a few more years.

I think he has a very great chance to be a serviceable captain for the Laval Rockets for years to come.