Wings sign Filppula to a 2 year deal

[Gniwder]

I thought the line 8 years in a row comment was pretty telling they didn't consider the actual contracts KH signed after Nielsen.

https://i.ibb.co/RC8ZZm7/ba.png

Worst contract he signed after Nielsen was Daley at 3x3.166

Fair enough. Daley contract is another meh contract, but I wouldn't call it horrible. He's obviously gone after this season.

Nielsen turned down more money to stay with the Isles to come to Detroit.

Islanders Rumors: Frans Nielsen Turns Down Contract

That doesn't make the contract any better. If another team wants to overpay a player, let them. Cleary, Abby, Helm, etc.

Nielsen probably regrets it now anyways.

 

[ricky0034]

Nielsen turned down more money to stay with the Isles to come to Detroit.

Islanders Rumors: Frans Nielsen Turns Down Contract

did he really though? that article makes no mention at all of the term the Islanders offered with that 5.5 million deal,but on the post article it quotes it mentions that he was looking for 6 million a year on "a deal that stretches through at least his age 36 season"

as a 32 year old surely he knew that this would probably be his last chance at a big contract,he only got 5.25 on the overall cap hit from the Wings in the end but he'll be 38 when the contract ends,mostly just sounds like the Wings blew him away with the 6 year term to be honest

the 6x4 offer it's mentioned he was looking for would have worked out to 24 million and the Wings gave him 31.5

 

[Mlotek]

That doesn't make the contract any better. If another team wants to overpay a player, let them. Cleary, Abby, Helm, etc.

Nielsen probably regrets it now anyways.

*Cough* Philadelphia *Cough*

 

[Ezekial]

That doesn't make the contract any better. If another team wants to overpay a player, let them. Cleary, Abby, Helm, etc.

Nielsen probably regrets it now anyways.

I'm not saying the contract is good but since the Wings missed the playoffs the first time he hasn't made a single bad deal for too much term or money, maybe Daley could've been signed for 2 years instead of 3, but the amount and term Holland would've signed Fil for would've had negligible difference from KH. KH proved that with all of his filler deals during the beginning of the rebuild.
Just lame exxaggeration to say "KH WOULD'VE SIGNED HIM FOR 5 YEARS 5 MILLION!"

did he really though? that article makes no mention at all of the term the Islanders offered with that 5.5 million deal,but on the post article it quotes it mentions that he was looking for 6 million a year on "a deal that stretches through at least his age 36 season"

as a 32 year old surely he knew that this would probably be his last chance at a big contract,he only got 5.25 on the overall cap hit from the Wings in the end but he'll be 38 when the contract ends,mostly just sounds like the Wings blew him away with the 6 year term to be honest

the 6x4 offer it's mentioned he was looking for would have worked out to 24 million and the Wings gave him 31.5

To be honest I didn't really read the article I just remembered he was offered more by the Isles found the blurb and ran with it, still gotta spoil your party, though:
June 1st

Free agent Frans Nielsen has signed a six-year deal with the Red Wings,the team announced.
The belief is that Nielsen got $30 million from Detroit, while the Islanders had offered a seven-year deal worth slightly more, reports Arthur Staple of Newsday.

Frans Nielsen signs six-year deal with Red WingsFrans Nielsen signs six-year deal with Red Wings
Maybe they offered him 5x7 and we offered him 5.25x6, but he left money on the table.

Crazy to think that day Backes, Okposo, Lucic, and Loui Eriksson all signed worse contracts, what a shit show 6/1/2016 was.
It's shit to have it on our books but what's done is done. All we can do is ride it out and hope he plays okay.

 

[obey86]

You mean the same guy that signed 32 year old Nielsen to 6 year contract? Or the guy who signed back injury prone Helm to 5 years?

Overpaying mediocre talent is Holland's MO. Maybe not 5 years for a 35 year old, but no doubt in my mind he would have paid more than $3M because he likes to outbid himself, and the team had cap space.

Regardless of who's in charge, it's a meh deal that won't change the long term trajectory of the team.

Signing neither Helm or Nielsen is remotely comparable to signing a 35 year old Filppula. Helm was 30, not 35, and Nielsen was 32 and one of the top tier free agents that offseason. Yeah, both deals suck, but the situations they were signed in weren't comparable, their ages weren't comparable, and in Nielsen vs. Filppula the caliber of free agent they were wasn't comparable.

Regardless, both Helm and Nielsen were signed when the Wings were still trying to compete/make the playoffs. Since the Wings fell out of the playoffs, Holland hasn't come close to breaking the bank in free agency.

Holland hypothetically signing Filppula is more comparable to him signing lower tier, similarly aged players like Jimmy Howard or Tomas Vanek. And he signed both those guys to one year deals, not five year deals. Hell, even his favorite player of all time, Dan Cleary, only was able to get one year deals by the time he was 34. Is there even a single 34/35 year old player from the past 10 seasons that Holland has signed to a 5 year deal? I can't think of one off the top of my head but maybe i'm wrong.

 

[Gniwder]

Signing neither Helm or Nielsen is remotely comparable to signing a 35 year old Filppula. Helm was 30, not 35, and Nielsen was 32 and one of the top tier free agents that offseason.

Helm has a history of back issues, Flip has been pretty durable through the years. Also, Helm's entire game is based on speed, and we know that kind of player doesn't age well.

Regardless, we all know why Holland signed Helm, I'm sure his wife is a wonderful person.

 

[Retire91]

I don't mind being corrected on the technicalities it's all good. But small technicalities do not change the underlying point that Filpulla is a Holland-esk signing which is concerning to see from Yzerman. A veteran plug waste of cap space bringing one of the country club boys back in the fold. It's not a damning contract by any means because of the short term, but it does nothing to progress the team nor fill any critical necessity.

 

[Henkka]

I don't mind being corrected on the technicalities it's all good. But small technicalities do not change the underlying point that Filpulla is a Holland-esk signing which is concerning to see from Yzerman. A veteran plug waste of cap space bringing one of the country club boys back in the fold. It's not a damning contract by any means because of the short term, but it does nothing to progress the team nor fill any critical necessity.

Maybe Yzerman is a bad GM who learned all the bad habits from Holland and we are gonna be dead wings for the next multiple decades.

 

[ricky0034]

Signing neither Helm or Nielsen is remotely comparable to signing a 35 year old Filppula. Helm was 30, not 35, and Nielsen was 32 and one of the top tier free agents that offseason. Yeah, both deals suck, but the situations they were signed in weren't comparable, their ages weren't comparable, and in Nielsen vs. Filppula the caliber of free agent they were wasn't comparable.

Regardless, both Helm and Nielsen were signed when the Wings were still trying to compete/make the playoffs. Since the Wings fell out of the playoffs, Holland hasn't come close to breaking the bank in free agency.

Holland hypothetically signing Filppula is more comparable to him signing lower tier, similarly aged players like Jimmy Howard or Tomas Vanek. And he signed both those guys to one year deals, not five year deals. Hell, even his favorite player of all time, Dan Cleary, only was able to get one year deals by the time he was 34. Is there even a single 34/35 year old player from the past 10 seasons that Holland has signed to a 5 year deal? I can't think of one off the top of my head but maybe i'm wrong.

this is true only in the most literal of senses

we all knew that Dan Cleary could do literally anything and Holland wasn't gonna be breaking that handshake deal to bring him back for 3 years

it was a sacred bond dude

 

[obey86]

Helm has a history of back issues, Flip has been pretty durable through the years. Also, Helm's entire game is based on speed, and we know that kind of player doesn't age well.

Regardless, we all know why Holland signed Helm, I'm sure his wife is a wonderful person.

You realize that signing players who are 35+ is a whole different animal compared to signing a 30 year old right? Many many more risks (specifically salary cap risks) associated with a 35+ contract than with a 30 year old contract...even if both are for 5 years and for the same caliber of player. You can buy out Helm at age 33/34 if he's injured all the time and ineffective, if that's what you want to do. You can't buy out a 35+ contract, making it significantly more risky than a 30 year old contract.

Can you post to a single player age 35+ that Holland has signed to a 5 year contract? Serious question. The Helm and Abdelkader contracts were bad, but that doesn't mean Holland was willing to willy nilly sign super old, low tier free agents to 5 year contracts, because that's simply not the case, as history has shown.

 

[Retire91]

Maybe Yzerman is a bad GM who learned all the bad habits from Holland and we are gonna be dead wings for the next multiple decades.

His track record of winning at all levels of the sport and performance in Tampa would say otherwise. Nothing Yzerman does over one offseason is going to be an indicator of any trends, we need time for that.

Just adding to the other thread any exaggeration of how much worse the Holland version of the signing is purely speculative. If you want to get into technicalities based on historical trends to fine-tune how it would have realistically went down under holland I don't feel it needs to go that far, but if so feel free It still doesn't change the fact that Holland has a history of laying down terrible contract negotiations some of which are leauge laughing stock level. Although I disagree with the Filpualla singing Yzerman has a long way to go to even start to generate that type of concern.

 

[lilidk]

I don't mind being corrected on the technicalities it's all good. But small technicalities do not change the underlying point that Filpulla is a Holland-esk signing which is concerning to see from Yzerman. A veteran plug waste of cap space bringing one of the country club boys back in the fold. It's not a damning contract by any means because of the short term, but it does nothing to progress the team nor fill any critical necessity.

Alec Regula was saying how friendly Filpulla to him ., so yes you wont to bring kids , make sure it is nice environment . Fil will be nice upgrade over Vanek

 

[Mlotek]

Holland hypothetically signing Filppula is more comparable to him signing lower tier, similarly aged players like Jimmy Howard or Tomas Vanek. And he signed both those guys to one year deals, not five year deals. Hell, even his favorite player of all time, Dan Cleary, only was able to get one year deals by the time he was 34. Is there even a single 34/35 year old player from the past 10 seasons that Holland has signed to a 5 year deal? I can't think of one off the top of my head but maybe i'm wrong.

That is incorrect.

Cleary agreed a 3 years deal with Philadelphia when he was 34.

If memory serves me correct, he couldn't officially sign the contract until someone when on LTIR at start of season.

Eventually Detroit managed to re-sign him for a lot less money and term than Philly offered.

But even at 34, Cleary was able to get a multi year deal.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/dan-cleary-takes-big-pay-cut-to-stay-with-red-wings-1.1699493

 

[obey86]

That is incorrect.

Cleary agreed a 3 years deal with Philadelphia when he was 34.

If memory serves me correct, he couldn't officially sign the contract until someone when on LTIR at start of season.

Eventually Detroit managed to re-sign him for a lot less money and term than Philly offered.

But even at 34, Cleary was able to get a multi year deal.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/dan-cleary-takes-big-pay-cut-to-stay-with-red-wings-1.1699493

The discussion was clearly about Ken Holland signing Cleary while GM of the Red Wings. Not some deal that never actually happened with another team.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I will never believe that Philly was willing to sign Cleary for three years.

 

[Retire91]

That Cleary Philly situation was so strange I remember most everyone was happy he still got to play hockey but he was finally someone else's problem, aaaaaaaaaaaand nope.........

 

[Mlotek]

The discussion was clearly about Ken Holland signing Cleary while GM of the Red Wings. Not some deal that never actually happened with another team.

Per that CBC article (in the link provided), Cleary was initially offered a 3-year deal from Detroit as well.

Keep in mind it was months between that initial offer and what he eventually settled for. But the point stands, even at 34 HOLLAND was willing to give him a 3 year deal.

Cleary was the one who rejected the offer and accepted more money from Philly. Only to return to Detroit for less.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I don't think we'll ever get the real story on the Cleary to the Flyers and back debacle...

From what I remember, Holland apparently offered Cleary something like a 3 year x $2M deal before free agency started and Cleary said no. Holland then blew his (cap space) load on Weiss and Alfredsson and had no room for Cleary (or Brunner). He wanted Cleary back, but needed to move someone. Cleary waited around, but Holland couldn't move anyone. They then invited Cleary to camp on a PTO, and he declined saying he had guaranteed deals from other teams. Then he takes a PTO from Philly, who wouldn't have been able to sign him until Pronger went on LTIR. FWIW, Both Cleary and Holmgren denied that the reported contract was agreed upon and Cleary was just coming on a PTO, but who knows. Cleary then had some emotional meeting with Babcock and Holland and took the PTO offer. Then he got signed and Nyquist had to start in GR. Woof.

 

[Bench]

Oh wow, Dan Cleary talk is even in this thread. Damn, it's got it all.

Can I entice anyone with a little Hossa chatter?

 

[Ricelund]

Oh wow, Dan Cleary talk is even in this thread. Damn, it's got it all.

Can I entice anyone with a little Hossa chatter?

Did Pulkkinen, Mursak, Ferraro, and Jurco get fair shots?

 

[Bench]

Did Pulkkinen, Mursak, Ferraro, and Jurco get fair shots?

Oh my. Jan Mursak. What could have been!

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Oh my. Jan Mursak. What could have been!

 

[ricky0034]

Did Pulkkinen, Mursak, Ferraro, and Jurco get fair shots?

poor Adam Almqvist can't even get a shot in hypothetical lists

fun fact: him and Mursak were on the same team in Switzerland this past year

 

[MBH]

Signing neither Helm or Nielsen is remotely comparable to signing a 35 year old Filppula. Helm was 30, not 35, and Nielsen was 32 and one of the top tier free agents that offseason. Yeah, both deals suck, but the situations they were signed in weren't comparable, their ages weren't comparable, and in Nielsen vs. Filppula the caliber of free agent they were wasn't comparable.

Regardless, both Helm and Nielsen were signed when the Wings were still trying to compete/make the playoffs. Since the Wings fell out of the playoffs, Holland hasn't come close to breaking the bank in free agency.

Holland hypothetically signing Filppula is more comparable to him signing lower tier, similarly aged players like Jimmy Howard or Tomas Vanek. And he signed both those guys to one year deals, not five year deals. Hell, even his favorite player of all time, Dan Cleary, only was able to get one year deals by the time he was 34. Is there even a single 34/35 year old player from the past 10 seasons that Holland has signed to a 5 year deal? I can't think of one off the top of my head but maybe i'm wrong.

Was it only 2 years ago that the Red Wings traded Sheahan because they were over the cap once Athanasiou agreed to his $1.4M/Y deal?

That's gross mismanagement, any way you slice it.

And for what? So we could use Trevor Daley instead of Xavier Ouellet?
Couldn't we have just gone
Dekeyser-Green
Kronwall-Jensen
Ouellet-Ericsson

Would we have been any worse off today? The answer is "no."

The fact that Holland and a cruddy Red Wings went into 2017-18 without enough cap room to pay Athanasiou his piddly $1.4 cap hit... is all you need to know about about poorly managed this franchise was.

Holland didn't need to spend on Daley. But, he had caproom, so he spent.

 

[MBH]