Confirmed with Link: Wings set to name Yzerman GM today

[obey86]

Then you simply don't spend to the cap, and continue to explore other avenues. I much sooner would have taken another team's cap dump stapled to a draft pick, instead of giving role players the golden parachute treatment.

I literally said in my post I don't absolve him of the blame for the bad contracts. Just saying it's not a comparable situation to a GM who literally has to let players walk to fit someone else under the cap.

 

[Heaton]

Hudler did not sign a deal the offseason Hossa walked. Filppula was going into year 2 of a 5 year deal for 3M/year. Cleary was going into year 2 of a 5 year deal for 2.8M/year.

So he didn't sign any of those that offseason instead of Hossa. Hudler didn't sign, and Filppula and Cleary were already under contract from previously signed deals (signed before the offseason Hossa left).

Hudler signed a 2 year 5.75m deal in August of 2009.

Cleary signed a deal before the offseason started like you said, but I feel Hossa should've been a priority before signing a depth player like Cleary (at the time I didn't feel this way, so this is in hindsight).

And I forgot Filppula signed the deal before the season started.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I dunno dude, not to dredge up a horse that's beaten to death, but Holland chose his role players over a star back in '09.

Hossa declined to sign here and taking Kopecky was a part of that deal as well which really was tough with the cap for us versus Chicago. I mean they didn't rescind his offer, Hossa choose Chicago, yes Franzen locked in quicker but their hope was to get both guys. Marian Hossa was not signing here long-term as much as people do love beating this dead horse, they tried and he declined.

 

[Heaton]

Hossa declined to sign here and taking Kopecky was a part of that deal as well which really was tough with the cap for us versus Chicago. I mean they didn't rescind his offer, Hossa choose Chicago, yes Franzen locked in quicker but their hope was to get both guys. Marian Hossa was not signing here long-term as much as people do love beating this dead horse, they tried and he declined.

This doesn't really fit what happened though, Holland offered Hossa a contract well below what he was worth (10 years 50m or something), probably because Holland didn't feel like we needed to keep Hossa since we could keep the team we won a cup with the year prior.

Hossa signed for more money in Chicago.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

This doesn't really fit what happened though, Holland offered Hossa a contract well below what he was worth (10 years 50m or something), probably because Holland didn't feel like we needed to keep Hossa since we could keep the team we won a cup with the year prior.

Hossa signed for more money in Chicago.

I seriously don't think it mattered what we offered him, Hossa wasn't signing here long-term and a paycut was a part of staying here long-term because that is what Datsyuk (to the least degree), Zetterberg and Franzen had all done.

Yzerman has just preached the same thing in Tampa and while yes he had tax breaks it is one of the things people have lauded about what he did down there. That Hossa wasn't willing to worked out for him, but it didn't change how we could negotiate with him and what was really happening there. Dude was a mercenary, it is a shame we didn't pull out game 6 or 7 when he was here in the Finals, but that was really going to be the end of that anyway.

 

[obey86]

Hudler signed a 2 year 5.75m deal in August of 2009.

Cleary signed a deal before the offseason started like you said, but I feel Hossa should've been a priority before signing a depth player like Cleary (at the time I didn't feel this way, so this is in hindsight).

And I forgot Filppula signed the deal before the season started.

Hossa originally signed with the Red Wings on July 1, 2008.

Dan Cleary signed his 5 year extension on January 23, 2008. Unless Holland has a time machine, not sure how we was supposed to prioritize signing Hossa over Cleary when Hossa was playing for the Penguins at the time Cleary signed his deal.

Filppula's 5 year deal was signed 29 days after Hossa signed with the Red Wings. Coming off a Stanley Cup win and trying to win again, not sure how it made sense to let 24 y/o Filppula, who was a RFA, walk while trying to compete for a Cup so that maybe they could sign Hossa again the FOLLOWING offseason.

Hudler never even signed or played under that deal, it was an arbitration award that never came to fruition. He went to play in Russia or whatever. And Marian Hossa had already been signed by the Blackhawks a month before that anyways.

So I guess he could have let Filppula walk in the 2008 offseason so that he could sign Hossa in 2009 (or at least have a better shot). Seems like a weird thing to do coming off a Stanley Cup win though. Seems like you would want BOTH Hossa and Flip for the 2008-2009 run to try to repeat - which they did end up having both for.

 

[Heaton]

Hossa originally signed with the Red Wings on July 1, 2008.

Dan Cleary signed his 5 year extension on January 23, 2008. Unless Holland has a time machine, not sure how we was supposed to prioritize signing Hossa over Cleary when Hossa was playing for the Penguins at the time Cleary signed his deal.

Filppula's 5 year deal was signed 29 days after Hossa signed with the Red Wings. Coming off a Stanley Cup win and trying to win again, not sure how it made sense to let 24 y/o Filppula, who was a RFA, walk while trying to compete for a Cup so that maybe they could sign Hossa again the FOLLOWING offseason.

Hudler never even signed or played under that deal, it was an arbitration award that never came to fruition. He went to play in Russia or whatever. And Marian Hossa had already been signed by the Blackhawks a month before that anyways.

So I guess he could have let Filppula walk in the 2008 offseason so that he could sign Hossa in 2009 (or at least have a better shot). Seems like a weird thing to do coming off a Stanley Cup win though. Seems like you would want BOTH Hossa and Flip for the 2008-2009 run to try to repeat.

Ok, let me rephrase, in an NHL 19, magical Christmas land, in pure hindsight I think he should have signed Hossa to a deal he was worth and traded the depth players to make room for him. I firmly believe that you sign your stars and find depth for cheap elsewhere.

 

[Heaton]

I seriously don't think it mattered what we offered him, Hossa wasn't signing here long-term and a paycut was a part of staying here long-term because that is what Datsyuk (to the least degree), Zetterberg and Franzen had all done.

Yzerman has just preached the same thing in Tampa and while yes he had tax breaks it is one of the things people have lauded about what he did down there. That Hossa wasn't willing to worked out for him, but it didn't change how we could negotiate with him and what was really happening there. Dude was a mercenary, it is a shame we didn't pull out game 6 or 7 when he was here in the Finals, but that was really going to be the end of that anyway.

Do you really think those contacts were discounts? Their cap hits were great because of the length nothing more. It was a great loop hole though.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Do you really think those contacts were discounts? Their cap hits were great because of the length nothing more. It was a great loop hole though.

They were approved by the league and completely legal. What happened afterwards was a travesty in all honesty. But it was a part of our culture a part Hossa wasn't interested in because he was a mercenary. I mean we can look at it a lot of ways it is a very dead horse, but I think people are missing that Hossa wasn't getting more than Z and Pav which made all the sense in the world and that wasn't going to do it for him, he was unwilling to make that sacrifice. He wasn't willing to sign here long-term in terms of his actual actions. We tried, but at a certain point you cannot just stand around looking longingly and hoping.

Finding your advantages is what a GM should be doing. I applauded him for those contracts, what the league did next never would have thought to have been done without grandfathering like almost every league rule in history. Frankly it is utter ******** that it did.

 

[Heaton]

They were approved by the league and completely legal. What happened afterwards was a travesty in all honesty. But it was a part of our culture a part Hossa wasn't interested in because he was a mercenary. I mean we can look at it a lot of ways it is a very dead horse, but I think people are missing that Hossa wasn't getting more than Z and Pav which made all the sense in the world and that wasn't going to do it for him, he was unwilling to make that sacrifice.

Yeah, but the contract he signed in Chicago wasn't more than Datsyuk or Z, he just wasn't offered a deal he was ever going to take here. Holland had no more cap to offer him. It was barely more than Franzen's. If he wanted a huge contract he would've signed in Edmonton. His deal in Chicago was extremely cap friendly.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yeah, but the contract he signed in Chicago wasn't more than Datsyuk or Z, he just wasn't offered a deal he was ever going to take here. Holland had no more cap to offer him. It was barely more than Franzen's. If he wanted a huge contract he would've signed in Edmonton. His deal in Chicago was extremely cap friendly.

And also included his best friend Kopecky getting overpaid on a deal.

I don't think Hossa was ever signing here long-term. I have heard others say it, they weren't countering and weren't really negotiating. He was here on a one year deal and he was good with that. It was a shame he was so banged up and a dud in the playoffs, we still should have won, Babcock got beat on adjustments by our current assistant coach that gets trashed a lot around this forum which was certainly upsetting.

 

[Heaton]

And also included his best friend Kopecky getting overpaid on a deal.

I don't think Hossa was ever signing here long-term. I have heard others say it, they weren't countering and weren't really negotiating. He was here on a one year deal and he was good with that. It was a shame he was so banged up and a dud in the playoffs, we still should have won, Babcock got beat on adjustments by our current assistant coach that gets trashed a lot around this forum which was certainly upsetting.

We should have won multiple championships with that core, looking back that entire Era was disappointing to what it should have been.

 

[Winger98]

Holland had his ruthless moments. Cutting Vernon lose after winning the first cup. Ditching ozzie when they got hasek. Ditching Cujo when he sucked. the buyouts after the first lockout. Those jump out at me first. He also really clung to some guys, like Helm/Gator, Brown and Gilchrist before that. The past few years, we've seen less passive Holland, and he's been better for it. As I think he always has been.

After the past few years, I'd be pretty optimistic about him guiding the Wings through the rest of the rebuild.

This doesn't really fit what happened though, Holland offered Hossa a contract well below what he was worth (10 years 50m or something), probably because Holland didn't feel like we needed to keep Hossa since we could keep the team we won a cup with the year prior.

Hossa signed for more money in Chicago.

The per year offer from Chicago wasn't all that different, though. They tacked on two extra years, so they could pile some more cash in up front while taking more off the hit later on. Holland was in the ballpark on the cap hit, but amazingly not in the term.

If the Wings had some better luck, I don't think losing Hossa would be viewed so horribly. If Hudler and Samuelsson had stuck around, the Wings still ice essentially the same team they won the Cup with in 08. They lost the star and the depth.

 

[Ricelund]

So, let's say Blashill and Babcock both fall out of favor with Detroit/Toronto management over the next 1-2 seasons. Does Yzerman bring Babcock back when the Wings begin to look like a contender?

 

[RedHawkDown]

So, let's say Blashill and Babcock both fall out of favor with Detroit/Toronto management over the next 1-2 seasons. Does Yzerman bring Babcock back when the Wings begin to look like a contender?

please no

 

[raymond23]

Bring us back Stevie. We're ready.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Hudler never even signed or played under that deal, it was an arbitration award that never came to fruition. He went to play in Russia or whatever. And Marian Hossa had already been signed by the Blackhawks a month before that anyways.

Actually he did. The deal was agreed upon prior to the hearing, and then upheld by the arbitrator.

Since Hudler was the one that filed for arbitration, the stipulation was that if he returned to the NHL, he would have to honor that contract.

When he returned after the one season, he fulfilled that contract ($2.75M in year one, and $3M in year two).

If the Wings had some better luck, I don't think losing Hossa would be viewed so horribly. If Hudler and Samuelsson had stuck around, the Wings still ice essentially the same team they won the Cup with in 08. They lost the star and the depth.

I always thought Holland was trying to "play it cool" like he did when he had his hands somewhat tied by the cap coming out of 05-06 when he similarly lost a 40 goal scorer, as well as Steve Yzerman. They ended up elevating Kopecky, Hudler and Filppula and the later two quickly became core guys. The also had Cleary and Franzen take huge steps in the next couple seasons.

In the same way, the Red Wings came out of 08-09 with Ville Leino under contract for a measley $800k coming off a stint with 9pts in 13 games, Ericsson playing well as #5D after Lilja goes down, Helm getting ready to play his first full season after being a regular for the two Cup runs, and Justin Abdelkader scoring a couple of goals in the finals against the Pens. I think Holland expected similar results to what he got between 06 and 08, but none of those guys panned out like Filppula and Hudler had, with Leino bombing especially horrible.

 

[obey86]

Actually he did. The deal was agreed upon prior to the hearing, and then upheld by the arbitrator.

Since Hudler was the one that filed for arbitration, the stipulation was that if he returned to the NHL, he would have to honor that contract.

When he returned after the one season, he fulfilled that contract ($2.75M in year one, and $3M in year two).



I always thought Holland was trying to "play it cool" like he did when he had his hands somewhat tied by the cap coming out of 05-06 when he similarly lost a 40 goal scorer, as well as Steve Yzerman. They ended up elevating Kopecky, Hudler and Filppula and the later two quickly became core guys. The also had Cleary and Franzen take huge steps in the next couple seasons.

In the same way, the Red Wings came out of 08-09 with Ville Leino under contract for a measley $800k coming off a stint with 9pts in 13 games, Ericsson playing well as #5D after Lilja goes down, Helm getting ready to play his first full season after being a regular for the two Cup runs, and Justin Abdelkader scoring a couple of goals in the finals against the Pens. I think Holland expected similar results to what he got between 06 and 08, but none of those guys panned out like Filppula and Hudler had, with Leino bombing especially horrible.

Thanks. I more or less meant he never played under that deal in the 08-09 season, so it didn’t affect having enough cap space for Hossa or not.

 

[Henkka]

Hossa originally signed with the Red Wings on July 1, 2008.

Dan Cleary signed his 5 year extension on January 23, 2008. Unless Holland has a time machine, not sure how we was supposed to prioritize signing Hossa over Cleary when Hossa was playing for the Penguins at the time Cleary signed his deal.

Filppula's 5 year deal was signed 29 days after Hossa signed with the Red Wings. Coming off a Stanley Cup win and trying to win again, not sure how it made sense to let 24 y/o Filppula, who was a RFA, walk while trying to compete for a Cup so that maybe they could sign Hossa again the FOLLOWING offseason.

Hudler never even signed or played under that deal, it was an arbitration award that never came to fruition. He went to play in Russia or whatever. And Marian Hossa had already been signed by the Blackhawks a month before that anyways.

So I guess he could have let Filppula walk in the 2008 offseason so that he could sign Hossa in 2009 (or at least have a better shot). Seems like a weird thing to do coming off a Stanley Cup win though. Seems like you would want BOTH Hossa and Flip for the 2008-2009 run to try to repeat - which they did end up having both for.

This. There was never a chance to sign Hossa, after Franzen signed. Why wait Franzen go UFA if he liked to sign? What if both Hossa and Franzen would have walked as UFA? That would have been smart GM work.

I calculated this many times on those days. Hudler or not in play. When Franzen signed, the cap space was gone, just like you wrote, Filppula and Cleary were signed earlier before nobody knew anything about Hossa and there's no time machine. Letting Franzen walk at summer of 2009 would have been the only way to keep Hossa. It was a decision between them, and Franzen signed before the playoffs started at 2009, three months before free agency. It would have needed 1.3M extra cap space to weaken the roster more in another position to keep a slightly better Hossa on another position. Now it was Franzen 3.9M + 1.8M other value on other position vs. Hossa 5.2M + 500k player, imo, a fair deal.

You should have cut too many players if trying to keep them both. Even with that Hawks reasonable caphit. Or, have a big risk to lose them both as UFA, if Franzen goes hot at the second playoffs in a row. There were so many factors on play.

Can't this debate just die?

 

[Heaton]

This. There was never a chance to sign Hossa, after Franzen isgned.

I calculated this many times on those days. Hudler or not in play. When Franzen signed, the cap space was gone, just like ou wrote, Filppula and cleary were signed earlier and there's no time machine. Letting Franzen walk at summer of 2009 would have been the only way to keep Hossa. It was a decision between them, and Franzen signed before the playoffs started at 2009.

Can't this debate just die?

What's dead may never die (and you can make trades to open up cap space).

 

[Henkka]

What's dead may never die (and you can make trades to open up cap space).

Yes you can. But nothing guarantees, there's the optimal trade partner waiting behind your door and doing just that favor you need.

Should have done something else.

Should have!

It was decision which didn't matter anything on big picture. No more Cups with Hossa and without Franzen and mo more cups with Franzen and without Hossa. Cap was too hard against us after all bargain contracts realized after 2009. Period. That's what happens for every winner and long-time succeeder.

That's the final truth everybody should finally accept. Too many work hours were lost for that worthless debate.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

And also included his best friend Kopecky getting overpaid on a deal.

I don't think Hossa was ever signing here long-term. I have heard others say it, they weren't countering and weren't really negotiating. He was here on a one year deal and he was good with that. It was a shame he was so banged up and a dud in the playoffs, we still should have won, Babcock got beat on adjustments by our current assistant coach that gets trashed a lot around this forum which was certainly upsetting.

Over ten years later and he hasn't changed. Babcock is the most overrated coach in NHL history. He cost us at least 2 more cups.. AT LEAST

 

[DRW204]

for those sub'd to the Athletic
Steve Yzerman Q&A: On draft strategy, analytics and a couple...

GMSY doesn't give much... pretty vanilla interview

 

[chances14]

for those sub'd to the Athletic
Steve Yzerman Q&A: On draft strategy, analytics and a couple...

GMSY doesn't give much... pretty vanilla interview

that's pretty much how all his interviews will be

 

[RedMenace]

Reading thread title, instructions unclear; so has Yzerman officially been named the Wings' GM, or is the announcement still pending?