GDT: Wings/sens 11/19

Sep 28, 2017
6,510
6,620
Grand Rapids, MI
His spot? No. Seider is definitely better than many of the DMen in front of him, though (I've watched 90% of Griffins and DRW games this season, I am basically a pro-scout from my couch).

I don’t see any upside in bringing up Seider right now. Give him 9 games at the end of the season and then a legitimate shot to make the lineup in 2020.

Right now he’s essentially playing a top pairing role on a very talented and competitive Griffins team. He’s in the perfect place for his development imo
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,764
10,302
I could hardly believe my eyes! I spotted a Frans Nielsen scoring chance, I had heard the stories of it happening before, but never witnessed one before!

The officiating against us in the 1st period was maddening! Every tick tack thing gets called against us, twice they blatantly drag down our players get nothing, and then the stupid "offside" goal gets taken back. They need to change the challenge rule to be only allowed to be used on players that had direct contact with the puck going in, as Bertuzzi was not in the play at all. I would rather have no challenges at all on offsides as for the most part the linesmen do a good job for human beings making calls, and most of the challenges are ridiculous 50/50 offsides that have no bearing on whether a goal is scored or not.

Can we relax on the Cholo hate please? A young kid who is learning and is getting better, and is being given a lot more ice time, is going to have rough nights. They don't need to be doghoused immediately, as that is a good way to kill a kids confidence if every minor mistake or decent mistake means they lose ice time. Especially seeing as every single blueliner on our team makes tons of bad plays. Hronek made a number of bad plays last night and I didn't read any hate on him at all. Also no one else seems to mention it, but the majority of Cholo's D partners are Biega, Daley, McIlrath and Ericsson. He rarely gets 5 on 5 time with Larkin's line, and is always on for the crappy lines, which will make lots of defenders look way worse than they are. Cholo always looks better with Hronek or Green out there with him, and the rare 5 on 5 he gets with Larkin and co. he looks a lot better to me. Not only that but Bowey has been far worse, as he does something dumb on like 60% of his shifts.

Bernier was Bernier last night, as the last 3 goals all should have been stopped. I always feel like he is lucky to make saves and also has a lot of unlucky plays happen, more so than most goalies you see.

Did anyone see Hirose? Yeah me neither!
 
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Hen Kolland

Registered User
Feb 22, 2018
9,469
8,335
I could hardly believe my eyes! I spotted a Frans Nielsen scoring chance, I had heard the stories of it happening before, but never witnessed one before!

The officiating against us in the 1st period was maddening! Every tick tack thing gets called against us, twice they blatantly drag down our players get nothing, and then the stupid "offside" goal gets taken back. They need to change the challenge rule to be only allowed to be used on players that had direct contact with the puck going in, as Bertuzzi was not in the play at all. I would rather have no challenges at all on offsides as for the most part the linesmen do a good job for human beings making calls, and most of the challenges are ridiculous 50/50 offsides that have no bearing on whether a goal is scored or not.

Can we relax on the Cholo hate please? A young kid who is learning and is getting better, and is being given a lot more ice time, is going to have rough nights. They don't need to be doghoused immediately, as that is a good way to kill a kids confidence if every minor mistake or decent mistake means they lose ice time. Especially seeing as every single blueliner on our team makes tons of bad plays. Hronek made a number of bad plays last night and I didn't read any hate on him at all. Also no one else seems to mention it, but the majority of Cholo's D partners are Biega, Daley, McIlrath and Ericsson. He rarely gets 5 on 5 time with Larkin's line, and is always on for the crappy lines, which will make lots of defenders look way worse than they are. Cholo always looks better with Hronek or Green out there with him, and the rare 5 on 5 he gets with Larkin and co. he looks a lot better to me. Not only that but Bowey has been far worse, as he does something dumb on like 60% of his shifts.

Bernier was Bernier last night, as the last 3 goals all should have been stopped. I always feel like he is lucky to make saves and also has a lot of unlucky plays happen, more so than most goalies you see.

Did anyone see Hirose? Yeah me neither!

I mean Hirose played like 8 minutes for the full game. Blink and you missed his ice time.
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,764
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Do you consider that to be a reasonable expectation of all players in 4 minutes?

No, my point was more that you should still be doing something of note at least some where in 8 minutes. If you had Larkin only play 5-8 minutes we would still notice him making positive plays. With Hirose he is never doing anything out there, whether offensively or defensively. Him, Erne, Nielsen and Perlini are all doing nothing for 99% of the time they are on the ice.
 
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Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
28,134
26,430
His spot? No. Seider is definitely better than many of the DMen in front of him, though (I've watched 90% of Griffins and DRW games this season, I am basically a pro-scout from my couch).

I just meant replace him in the lineup. I wasn't implying that Cholowski has carved out a permanent spot on the roster. I don't watch any Griffins games to I'll defer to your couch-scout judgment but I'd rather Seider play big minutes in Grand Rapids to develop than get thrown into a shitshow defense right now. With the current lineup there's not exactly a lot of great vets for him to learn from at the moment.

I don’t see any upside in bringing up Seider right now. Give him 9 games at the end of the season and then a legitimate shot to make the lineup in 2020.

Right now he’s essentially playing a top pairing role on a very talented and competitive Griffins team. He’s in the perfect place for his development imo

Exactly. That's a more concise way of saying what I'm getting at.
 
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Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
28,134
26,430
Of 250 faceoffs 5 0n 5 he's been on the ice only 50 have been in the defensive zone. For 5 on 5 zone starts he starts in the offensive zone 70% of the time. 15% of his ice time is PP time. Compare that to 0.2% of his time on the PK this year.

I can keep going, but he's by far the most sheltered D-man. And he's still a trainwreck defensively. Imagine how bad things would be if he had PK time and D-zone starts.
Cholowski is young offensive D-man. You're surprised he's not a on the PK?

He is not the most sheltered D-man. You can quote all the zone starts you want but when Dmen in the lineup are playing under 15 minutes a night (Biega, McIlrath, even Daley) that's being more sheltered than a kid playing 2o minutes. If you mean sheltered for the minutes he plays, fine.

EDIT: and to be clear, this says as much about our defense as Cholowski when I'm saying there's not really a better option for to justify sitting him vs learning on the job.
 
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SoupGuru

Registered User
May 12, 2007
18,543
2,693
Spokane
Cholo has been pretty terrible. Third worse plus/minus on the team.

Considering the sheltered minutes and the PP time, you'd hope he would have better stats than Bowey.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
Cholowski is young offensive D-man. You're surprised he's not a on the PK?

He is not the most sheltered D-man. You can quote all the zone starts you want but when Dmen in the lineup are playing under 15 minutes a night (Biega, McIlrath, even Daley) that's being more sheltered than a kid playing 2o minutes. If you mean sheltered for the minutes he plays, fine.

EDIT: and to be clear, this says as much about our defense as Cholowski when I'm saying there's not really a better option for to justify sitting him vs learning on the job.
He shouldn't be sat. He should be in GR actually learning how to play.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,124
7,485
Bellingham, WA
He shouldn't be sat. He should be in GR actually learning how to play.
He did OK on the road trip, in fact all of the Dmen played well, would have been all wins if not for an unlucky bounce and Howard's goaltending.

I think the D struggles with faster teams, pretty much all of them got beat by the Sens. I'm wondering if Blash should play Biega/Hicketts against faster teams and BigE/Bowey against slower ones. (Note: Bowey's skating isn't slow but his thought process is.)

In any case, really bad game for Cholo. I don't see the team sending him down until DDK and Nemeth are healthy though.
 
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Titan6lie

Registered User
Mar 11, 2019
57
19
I could hardly believe my eyes! I spotted a Frans Nielsen scoring chance, I had heard the stories of it happening before, but never witnessed one before!

The officiating against us in the 1st period was maddening! Every tick tack thing gets called against us, twice they blatantly drag down our players get nothing, and then the stupid "offside" goal gets taken back. They need to change the challenge rule to be only allowed to be used on players that had direct contact with the puck going in, as Bertuzzi was not in the play at all. I would rather have no challenges at all on offsides as for the most part the linesmen do a good job for human beings making calls, and most of the challenges are ridiculous 50/50 offsides that have no bearing on whether a goal is scored or not.

Can we relax on the Cholo hate please? A young kid who is learning and is getting better, and is being given a lot more ice time, is going to have rough nights. They don't need to be doghoused immediately, as that is a good way to kill a kids confidence if every minor mistake or decent mistake means they lose ice time. Especially seeing as every single blueliner on our team makes tons of bad plays. Hronek made a number of bad plays last night and I didn't read any hate on him at all. Also no one else seems to mention it, but the majority of Cholo's D partners are Biega, Daley, McIlrath and Ericsson. He rarely gets 5 on 5 time with Larkin's line, and is always on for the crappy lines, which will make lots of defenders look way worse than they are. Cholo always looks better with Hronek or Green out there with him, and the rare 5 on 5 he gets with Larkin and co. he looks a lot better to me. Not only that but Bowey has been far worse, as he does something dumb on like 60% of his shifts.

Bernier was Bernier last night, as the last 3 goals all should have been stopped. I always feel like he is lucky to make saves and also has a lot of unlucky plays happen, more so than most goalies you see.

Did anyone see Hirose? Yeah me neither!
Kinda agreed with the go easy on chilowski stuff.....until you proceeded to crap on all the rest of the defensemen?
Young defensemen all trying to make it...gonna have some ups/downs...pointing the finger at others usually done by the one with dirty hands.
 
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lomekian

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
1,871
891
London
Bad game from Cholowski, but he's had a couple of very strong one's recently. At this point he's a talented but very up and down guy who needs to get stronger, more explosive and better at making decisions in his own zone. Nothing to worry about longer term...yet.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,124
7,485
Bellingham, WA
Bad game from Cholowski, but he's had a couple of very strong one's recently. At this point he's a talented but very up and down guy who needs to get stronger, more explosive and better at making decisions in his own zone. Nothing to worry about longer term...yet.
Yes, he has. He's been taking the body recently, not sure what happened yesterday. Can't let a guy skate by with the puck and do nothing.

The D-men were getting burned, so Blash went to "chase the puck like a Mite" system. 5 guys crowding the crease in the 3rd. I absolutely hate that. If the D gets burned, they get burned. Chasing the puck and crowding the crease is a crappy defensive system.

I've been accused of blaming the goalie for losses, so I want to go on record as saying that this game was not Bernie's fault. They skated by the defense on every goal.
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,764
10,302
Kinda agreed with the go easy on chilowski stuff.....until you proceeded to crap on all the rest of the defensemen?
Young defensemen all trying to make it...gonna have some ups/downs...pointing the finger at others usually done by the one with dirty hands.

What other young defenders did I crap on? I only said Hronek made some mistakes in the Ottawa game, and the rest are veterans.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,124
7,485
Bellingham, WA
EDIT: and to be clear, this says as much about our defense as Cholowski when I'm saying there's not really a better option for to justify sitting him vs learning on the job.
Nemeth, DDK, and Daley are on IR so the only other choices are BigE, Hicketts, and Lashoff. Or Bowey playing the left side.

There's no point in sitting him until DDK and Nemeth are able to play.
 
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TatarTangle

Registered User
Sep 28, 2011
4,453
500
Detroit
There are plenty of other problems I can think of before Cholowski. He did look awful on that goal against though. Be strong on the puck / stick young man.
 

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