Rumor: Wings pursuing Kovalchuk?

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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On one hand, why the hell would old man Kovy want to join the Wings?

On the other hand, guy could get a nice payday, get assured powerplay time to boost those stats, and then get to pick his team at the deadline. The ol' Jagr move. Let the regular season play itself out and then try to mercenary your way to a Cup.

I mean, 5 years ago with Datsyuk this would have been an exciting bit of news. At this point it's a big shrug and a "meh?"
 

ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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For the record, I dont think he's coming to Detroit. I think he's negotiating with as many teams as possible in order to up his value.

The argument for coming to Detroit would be that they are not likely making the playoffs, meaning that at the TDL he could be traded to a legit contender.

For a UFA, best case scenario is signing with a legit contender (but that's easier said then done), 2nd best scenario is signing with a bad team that can trade you at the TDL, worst case is signing with a fringe team that may be a playoff team, but not good enough to do any damage, and not bad enough to trade you (think us in 2014).
At least by signing with Detroit, he has a high chance of being traded to a legit contender come TDL, especially if its 1 year with a modified NTC.

My guess is that maybe given the risk associated with Kovalchuk's age and lengthy absence from the NHL, he's only getting 1 year offers and/or termed offers giving more perf. bonus but less "guaranteed" money.

I know Kovy wants to return to win a Cup, but we all know he most likely also wants to get paid as well as possible for it.

Signing an NTC protected 1 year with a team that's likely to be a deadline seller could arguably be a better way to latch on with a legit contender. He'd obviously immediately catapult to the top of the Red Wings depth chart and get plenty of opportunity to eliminate any doubt among contenders that might have been apprehensive in signing/paying him over the summer. He'd then have a clearer picture of who's a real contender at the deadline and with his NTC he'd basically get to choose which one. The Red Wings would get a decent return since they would likely retain 50% of his cap hit. Then Kovalchuk gets to use the latest NHL entry on his resume to get a more lucrative termed deal from his new team or on the UFA market next summer. Win-win for both.
 
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Ezekial

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Maybe it was just the Little Caesars in my city, but they always tasted like s*** and were thin as hell. JETS all the way.
There's a Pizza Jet's, yea that's what I call it because some idiot I used to work with called it that, by my work and I get it as a change of pace from time to time. FWIR, it's way better than Lil Cs, but I haven't f***ed with a hot n ready in forever.
 

RedWingzz

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I don't see how it would. That is why I am asking you to explain your position.

Let's say Helm was signed to a reasonable contract, say 2.5/per. Let's say Ericsson was signed to a reasonable contract, 2.75/per, and Dekeyser was signed to a reasonable contract, and Nielsen, and Abdelkader. If these guys were all signed to reasonable deals, we could be trading them for more prospects and/or picks, helping the rebuild. It's all about asset management, and those are all basically unmovable contracts. They will be forced to be a Wing for the duration of their contracts, and no team will be willing to pick them up. Why? Their contracts. Helm is a useful player. Ericsson could bring depth to a team. Nielsen could really help a contending team as a 3C, yet nobody wants these players because their contracts are junk.

Instead of moving these guys for assets, we can't, and they will remain on the roster until their contracts expire, thus "enabling a true rebuild". Sure we can rebuild all while these guys remain on the roster, but it would speed things up, or at least bring in more potential future assets if they were movable.
 
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TCNorthstars

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Jan 5, 2009
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Let's say Helm was signed to a reasonable contract, say 2.5/per. Let's say Ericsson was signed to a reasonable contract, 2.75/per, and Dekeyser was signed to a reasonable contract, and Nielsen, and Abdelkader. If these guys were all signed to reasonable deals, we could be trading them for more prospects and/or picks, helping the rebuild. It's all about asset management, and those are all basically unmovable contracts. They will be forced to be a Wing for the duration of their contracts, and no team will be willing to pick them up. Why? Their contracts. Helm is a useful player. Ericsson could bring depth to a team. Nielsen could really help a contending team as a 3C, yet nobody wants these players because their contracts are junk.

Instead of moving these guys for assets, we can't, and they will remain on the roster until their contracts expire, thus "enabling a true rebuild". Sure we can rebuild all while these guys remain on the roster, but it would speed things up, or at least bring in more potential future assets if they were movable.

I see now where you are coming from. I don't agree, but that is why we have discussion boards! 11 picks in the 2017 draft, 11 pick in the 2018 draft, 9+ picks in the 2019 draft, Wings have plenty of picks to help with the rebuild. What kind of prospects are you looking at getting by selling our 3rd line forwards? Since we don't need the cap space you could retain a mill on Helm, Dekeyser, Ericsson, Nielsen (obviously not on all at once) to make them more attractive. Then who are you replacing all those guys with? A bunch of Vanek type $$$ mercenaries? You still need some solid veteran leadership on the team.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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Let's say Helm was signed to a reasonable contract, say 2.5/per. Let's say Ericsson was signed to a reasonable contract, 2.75/per, and Dekeyser was signed to a reasonable contract, and Nielsen, and Abdelkader. If these guys were all signed to reasonable deals, we could be trading them for more prospects and/or picks, helping the rebuild. It's all about asset management, and those are all basically unmovable contracts. They will be forced to be a Wing for the duration of their contracts, and no team will be willing to pick them up. Why? Their contracts. Helm is a useful player. Ericsson could bring depth to a team. Nielsen could really help a contending team as a 3C, yet nobody wants these players because their contracts are junk.

Instead of moving these guys for assets, we can't, and they will remain on the roster until their contracts expire, thus "enabling a true rebuild". Sure we can rebuild all while these guys remain on the roster, but it would speed things up, or at least bring in more potential future assets if they were movable.

I mean, at some point, you need to have a team that can play. And also, you show no clear idea of the market. Ericsson or an Ericsson expy at the time of his signing (a good top 4D, which is what he was at the time) would cost the 4.25M. A forward in the mold of Abby would cost 5M or more on the market.

And no, nobody would want Ericsson at 2.75M. Did you want a better hockey player in Trevor Daley for 3.3M? Nope.

Not that the Wings did right by signing them to those deals, but even if you magically could wave a wand and cut their deals in half, they still wouldn't be good assets. Helm and Abby would get some bites, but nobody wants Ericsson who's a mediocre defensive defenseman who can't score. DeKeyser would have value at Daley's contract probably (3.3M per) as an okay #4... but any more and nobody would want him.

And really, the Wings have 11 picks this year, double digit picks next year... They don't need to keep trading mid-range to awful players to get mid-range to awful prospects and low picks. A free 4th round pick or later is a lotto scratcher. It's a "hey, this is a cool thing if I happen upon it and not a way to improve your standing". They need to hit on the picks they have. They've got high quality draft picks (top 10s and 4 in the top 40) coming that they simply need to hit on.

The real value of 2nd-4th round picks is when you can get a proven NHL player for them (like 2 2nds for Nick Leddy or Johnny Boychuk or a late 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd for Dougie Hamilton). It isn't to amass five to six of them to just spray and pray with your scouting.
 

RedWingzz

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Apr 14, 2009
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I mean, at some point, you need to have a team that can play. And also, you show no clear idea of the market. Ericsson or an Ericsson expy at the time of his signing (a good top 4D, which is what he was at the time) would cost the 4.25M. A forward in the mold of Abby would cost 5M or more on the market.

And no, nobody would want Ericsson at 2.75M. Did you want a better hockey player in Trevor Daley for 3.3M? Nope.

Not that the Wings did right by signing them to those deals, but even if you magically could wave a wand and cut their deals in half, they still wouldn't be good assets. Helm and Abby would get some bites, but nobody wants Ericsson who's a mediocre defensive defenseman who can't score. DeKeyser would have value at Daley's contract probably (3.3M per) as an okay #4... but any more and nobody would want him.

And really, the Wings have 11 picks this year, double digit picks next year... They don't need to keep trading mid-range to awful players to get mid-range to awful prospects and low picks. A free 4th round pick or later is a lotto scratcher. It's a "hey, this is a cool thing if I happen upon it and not a way to improve your standing". They need to hit on the picks they have. They've got high quality draft picks (top 10s and 4 in the top 40) coming that they simply need to hit on.

The real value of 2nd-4th round picks is when you can get a proven NHL player for them (like 2 2nds for Nick Leddy or Johnny Boychuk or a late 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd for Dougie Hamilton). It isn't to amass five to six of them to just spray and pray with your scouting.

So if I offered you a free lotto scratcher, you'd decline?

Also, I'm quite aware of the market, thanks. Just because Holland signed Ericsson and Helm and Abby to their market price doesn't change the fact that maybe he should have never signed them in the first place? When Ericsson signed that deal, I was cringing. My first reaction was that's too much money. Same reaction with Helm, Abby, Dekeyser and Nielsen. Why has Holland never walked away from our homegrown players because the market price wasn't worth it?
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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So if I offered you a free lotto scratcher, you'd decline?

Also, I'm quite aware of the market, thanks. Just because Holland signed Ericsson and Helm and Abby to their market price doesn't change the fact that maybe he should have never signed them in the first place? When Ericsson signed that deal, I was cringing. My first reaction was that's too much money. Same reaction with Helm, Abby, Dekeyser and Nielsen. Why has Holland never walked away from our homegrown players because the market price wasn't worth it?

No I wouldn't decline. I also wouldn't plan all of my decisions around the fact that I might possibly be able to get one for free. At some point soon, you need to get out of the "Oh, we can sign this guy and totally flip him for a draft pick at the deadline" mode.

Because up until getting bombed by Tampa in the 2nd go-around, the team didn't view themselves as rebuilding. **** about that if you must, but they saw "We took Tampa to 7 and were in the catbird seat to win if Glendening's injury didn't let Tyler Johnson get off the mat". The Boston series was "our entire C core was out for the second half of the year and we had Datsyuk come back and play like 8 games and look like crap doing it and then rushed back Z in game 4 which by then the series was pretty much over anyway".

When you are a team trying to make the playoffs, you need players who fit into the molds of those guys.

The two guys that I hated the deals for were Abby and Helm. Abby because it's just too damn long and Helm because it was quite unnecessary. The Helm one is just about the only one that I was pissed at, because THAT one is over market... at least for the player Helm is now.

Nielsen... the Wings needed a viable good #2, great #3C when Datsyuk left. They needed a guy who if Larkin completely tanked after a promising rookie year, he wasn't stuck playing 1/2C minutes that he literally couldn't handle.
DeKeyser... he's ill-fitted to be a 1D, but the Wings needed a guy who could stand in on a top pair.

You can cringe about the money all you like, but at some point, that's the price of doing business. And since the Wings until about two years ago were going to be trying to make the playoffs, you're either spending 4.25M on Jonathan Ericsson or you're spending 5.5M on Jeff Petry. You're either spending 4.25M on Abdelkader or 4.5M on Troy Brouwer or Matt Belesky or Bryan Bickell.

Yes, Holland has made loyalty-driven mistakes. He made bad bets on guys who they had and liked and thought they had more to their games that ended up not continuing to improve. But if I'm a boss, I kinda want to bet on my own guys given a choice between that and the ether.
 

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