Syckle78
Registered User
Your last statement doesn't refute what he said about key players. Yea we had a lot of man games lost but it was actually a benefit as the replacement players were on par with or better than those missing.
Your last statement doesn't refute what he said about key players. Yea we had a lot of man games lost but it was actually a benefit as the replacement players were on par with or better than those missing.
That's a safe bet unless Zetterberg and Datsyuk stay 100% healthy. If they do, who knows, they could challenge for the top spot. So much depends on Howard, as well.
But I expect the usual 10-15 games of injury nursing and the subsequent drop in the standings.
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
Without Crosby and Malkin, Kunitz put up his best season to that date in 2010-2011. Kunitz is very good.
No. That is an invalid use of statistics. You should know this already. Check out the blatantly different quality of competition before saying things like that.
Seguin had better offensive stats in the very small sampling of time away from him, though defense went out the door completely. Bergeron's scoring went down and defense also got worse without Seguin.
What do you mean "now?" Eriksson has had Mike Ribeiro and Brad Richards play on his line. And those were both quality centers in their own right
Eh... Not true. Eriksson has had Jamie Benn, Brad Richards, and Mike Ribeiro. Their skills would suffice for Eriksson to play very well.
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Chance on Chance
Registered User
InjuredChoker
Registered User
What Syckle said.
Playoffs were relatively small sample size but if they can play as well as they did during them and the last 10 games or so of reg. season, yes, I see them making the playoffs comfortably. I'm just not sure if they can.
yeah, right.
0.795 GF/20, 402:38 mins
1.355 GF/20, 442:59 mins
Guess which number is with Corsby and which one is without.
You're the one who directed that stat to me.
It was joke anyway.
Actually, basically all of his playoff career to date (well one big game against Tampa). And it's pretty relevant bc last year he did play without Bergeron in playoffs, reg. season not so much.
Compare them relative to the team. Are Seguin's numbers better to the rest of Boston compared to Eriksson against the rest of Dallas?
It went down before Tyler was taken off that line. He dragged it down and the line started to play better as he was off it.
Bergeron's scoring started to go down bc of he had concussion.
Well Richards hasn't been there for 2 years and Ribs and him don't even know where D zone is. Ribs doesn't count as #1 C imo. not good enough at ES or D.
If Benn were so good at C, Stars would have never gone after Seguin. There's a reason he is winger.
Eriksson is the one who had to play the best D on those lines.
And Eriksson did play very well.
Seguin's stats across the board last season were better than Datsyuk's. Is he better?
Sure. Good idea for a thread. I encourage somebody who enjoys the topic to make one.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
I really don't understand how you can view this team as a top three team in the EC. It's basically the same team as last year, but the old and washed up veterans have displaced Nyquist and Tatar.
I guess they have a shot at being a top three team if all the veterans get hurt on opening night and have season ending injuries and the Wings can start playing their good players.
I guess they have a shot at being a top three team if all the veterans get hurt on opening night and have season ending injuries and the Wings can start playing their good players.
Heaton
Moderator
I think it's pretty simple. This season we had a training camp and full preseason. The defense should be better due to experience and we've upgraded our top 6. I'm frustrated Nyquist isn't guaranteed a spot, but I feel confident he'll get his time, Babcock likes him.
Nyquist will play eventually and so will Tatar. In 58 career regular season and playoff games, Nyquist has 6 goals and 12 assists- it's not like he's set the world on fire so his presence or lack of presence in the lineup isn't going to make or break anything in the first few games of the season. Ditto for Tatar- although I'd prefer to see both play over Miller and Bert. I think the difference between Sammy and Cleary and Tatar/Nyquist is actually pretty minimal despite what the majority of the board thinks and if we ever get Helm back I think we'd have one of the better bottom 6 units in the NHL regardless who are the two players riding the pine on a given night.
Chance on Chance
Registered User
I think every team says stuff like that though. Ottawa can say they'er healthy and added Ryan. Montreal will say they added Brierre and Gallagher and Galchenyuk will have another year under their belt. Toronto added Clarkson and Kadri will have more exp. Pitts has a healthy Crosby now.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,242
- 14,747
Playing what, 9-10 minutes a night?
Of course they're not setting the world on fire with no ice time.
If you watch them play you can see they are very clearly ready.
The key is our players need to be better.
But it's true, that's the mantra for every team. Half the time when folks make up mock rosters for 2-3 years out it includes guys who don't even make the roster when their time comes.
I'm going to raise you a Huskins and Lashoff on defense. And White never saw the ice late in the season and early in the playoffs. And many inexperienced you forwards.
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
@Injured Choker
I'm getting sick of this debate. Every time I bring up statistics, you always try and discredit them as if the list I give you (which I do so because I can't get a head-to-head matchup like you could on Fangraphs) is supposed to be this all-encompassing list of the best to the worst and point out that the list is completely context-neutral.
WELL THAT'S WHAT THE FREAKING LIST IS, CONTEXT-NEUTRAL. It's not meant to be the list from best-to-worst player. All it is is listing best stat to worst stat without taking anything into context. You're making a straw man out of this. The person looking at the stats must figure out the context for themselves. I can't just look at Chris Kunitz and say he's the best goal-scorer in the game. I CAN look and say he was on the ice for the most goals for per 20 minutes in the league last season. I can't use that to say he's the best scorer in the game.
These Stats are totally accurate. You have to first put them in the right context. They aren't, and that's a fault of the site and the nature of hockey statistics in general.
I'm getting sick of this debate. Every time I bring up statistics, you always try and discredit them as if the list I give you (which I do so because I can't get a head-to-head matchup like you could on Fangraphs) is supposed to be this all-encompassing list of the best to the worst and point out that the list is completely context-neutral.
WELL THAT'S WHAT THE FREAKING LIST IS, CONTEXT-NEUTRAL. It's not meant to be the list from best-to-worst player. All it is is listing best stat to worst stat without taking anything into context. You're making a straw man out of this. The person looking at the stats must figure out the context for themselves. I can't just look at Chris Kunitz and say he's the best goal-scorer in the game. I CAN look and say he was on the ice for the most goals for per 20 minutes in the league last season. I can't use that to say he's the best scorer in the game.
These Stats are totally accurate. You have to first put them in the right context. They aren't, and that's a fault of the site and the nature of hockey statistics in general.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Well they had a chance to be boarderline on the top 10 in terms of speed, but given how they are going to doll out the roles and form the roster, we are now one of the slowest teams. Bravo Kenny and Mike, where they finish depends on how much Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Howard can carry on their back, plus how quickly Babcock or Holland forces Babcock to fix his his lines and play roles appropriately.
I feel real bad for Nyquist today, even if he gets his full 925K in the minors he didn't deserve this and I would understand if he didn't report, but he will and play hard because that is who he is but it's ridiculous.
I feel real bad for Nyquist today, even if he gets his full 925K in the minors he didn't deserve this and I would understand if he didn't report, but he will and play hard because that is who he is but it's ridiculous.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
It really is crazy that the opening night roster is basically the exact same roster at the start of last season.
You have to assume Babcock and Holland saw how the team played better when the veterans got hurt.
The Wings finally found a third line that could produce on offense since 2009 and what happens?
Brunner is let go
Nyquist gets demoted
Tatar discovers the exact number of rivets the roof of Joe Louis Arena has by then end of October.
Now we are back to having no legitimate third line.
Ohh and the 4th line is just a bunch of leftovers.
You have to assume Babcock and Holland saw how the team played better when the veterans got hurt.
The Wings finally found a third line that could produce on offense since 2009 and what happens?
Brunner is let go
Nyquist gets demoted
Tatar discovers the exact number of rivets the roof of Joe Louis Arena has by then end of October.
Now we are back to having no legitimate third line.
Ohh and the 4th line is just a bunch of leftovers.
Heaton
Moderator
I think it goes back to 2009 with what Holland did to keep the band together. He sent down Leino, Helm and Ericsson instead of letting go of Lilja and the other spare parts. Holland loves his depth, he just doesn't ever utilize it correctly.
Chance on Chance
Registered User
Syckle78
Registered User
I'm not so sure it's the Wings being valued highly as much as it is the conference being top heavy and then meh. Who is elite and highly probable to be a good deal better outside of Boston and Pittsburgh? I think after that it's a coin toss until you get to the bottom feeders.
My guess is 2 to 4 spot, depending on injuries and team chemistry to start the season. They could take #1 spot if all the stars align in their favor.
Z and D better be healty, otherwise we´re farked. Our D is still to shaky, and we got supsect bottom 6, plus the the Cleary signing fiasco that will haunt us all year with the salary cap issues it brings.
Alfie is an X-factor too, can he really be effective still? On PP I think he will, but he need to be good/great even strenght as well. We'll see...
Of course it's important that Howard plays well.
So what do I think? Well a 3-4th place in the conference shouldnt be overly optimistic.
Alfie is an X-factor too, can he really be effective still? On PP I think he will, but he need to be good/great even strenght as well. We'll see...
Of course it's important that Howard plays well.
So what do I think? Well a 3-4th place in the conference shouldnt be overly optimistic.
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TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
How much of that is down to our relative lack of familiarity with the conference though in terms of how they compare to us and the teams we so far regularly played? Does anyone really know how we compare to the Sens or Rangers or anyone else in the East for that matter? I feel like there is a certain arrogance perhaps in thinking the West was so much better that we go from "fighting to get in" to "contender".
