Wings hurtin'... Holland doesn't like it

NeelyWasAWarrior

Don't Poke The Bear
Dec 23, 2006
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You don't understand how things work then! Corporate people buy many tickets at many of the big arenas, to give to clients as gifts. Many of those people either can't or don't want to go, and either don't or can't give the tickets to anyone else, thus a lot of the paid for "sold out" seats are left empty. Obviously they have worse attendance due to our sucking right now, but it still gets listed as a sellout because of stuff like this, and it works like this for all teams, that list sellouts. Even in Toronto who is never not sold out, will have empty seats that were paid for, but people couldn't make it to that game, such as season ticket holders.

You may be right but I don't believe it. In any case it's a bad look. Hockeytown they are not and never were.
 

Ishad

Registered User
Jun 2, 2010
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Did people expect Ken Holland to come out and say “we’re probably going to suck for awhile, get used to it?”
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
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Larkin has about as much chance at the Vezina as he does at the Selke. If he was Barkov, okay. He isn’t.
Declaring someone will never win a selke by 22 .... :laugh:

Especially considering being defensively sound is the reason he was drafted mid 1st... the offense just ended up being a bonus.
 

David Bruce Banner

Nude Cabdriver Ban
Mar 25, 2008
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Streets Ahead
They're overdue a bit of time in the basement, if only to weed out some fair-weather fans. That said, I look forward to them being competitive again in a few years.
 

hotcarle

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Jul 10, 2009
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It's impossible to replace Zetterberg and Datsyuk, and the defense hasn't been good since Lidstrom. They need a goalie.
 

tucker3434

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Declaring someone will never win a selke by 22 .... :laugh:

Especially considering being defensively sound is the reason he was drafted mid 1st... the offense just ended up being a bonus.

If you think that Larkin is going to be a Kopitar/Bergeron/prime Toews level player, that’s fine but your opinion is the fringe one, not mine.
 

Grimm

Registered User
Jul 21, 2017
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If you think that Larkin is going to be a Kopitar/Bergeron/prime Toews level player, that’s fine but your opinion is the fringe one, not mine.
Those players are all super different. Kopitar uses his massive frame, Bergeron is cerebral, and Jonathan Toews is absolutely overrated the poor guy had prime Keith and Seabrook behind him.

Larkin uses speed speed speed in a game that's transforming to speed. He's not going to get burnt often and has enough quickness to recover. I don't think he's ever going to win a Selke IMO, but saying he can't be a 70 point great defensive player like the others noted is absurd. Not to mention Toews has hit 80 points how many times....? He's only hit 70 once. Larkin put up 63 last year on an abysmal Wings team. Bergeron has hit 70 twice and that was 12 years ago bud.
 

tucker3434

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Those players are all super different. Kopitar uses his massive frame, Bergeron is cerebral, and Jonathan Toews is absolutely overrated the poor guy had prime Keith and Seabrook behind him.

Larkin uses speed speed speed in a game that's transforming to speed. He's not going to get burnt often and has enough quickness to recover. I don't think he's ever going to win a Selke IMO, but saying he can't be a 70 point great defensive player like the others noted is absurd. Not to mention Toews has hit 80 points how many times....? He's only hit 70 once. Larkin put up 63 last year on an abysmal Wings team. Bergeron has hit 70 twice and that was 12 years ago bud.

My point was that if you aren’t an 80 point guy, you’ve pretty much gotta be one of the very best defensive centers in the game. So when those other guys are putting up B+ offensive stats, they’re also giving you an A+ level defensive performance. I don’t think Larkin is an A+ defensive player.
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
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Bergeron didn’t have the media recognition, but he was still on the best defensive centers in the game in 10-11. Larkin is not.

If you’re heading into the playoffs with Dylan Larkin as your 1C, you’ve got it circled as an area of weakness. You can adopt the preds model and try to win in spite of that but all you need there is a handful of legit #1 D’s And a vezina caliber goalie.

Yeah Larkin of rihgt now as your top center is a weakness for sure as a contender. But Bergeron as a great defensive C was stil a 50 something point guy winning the cup. I think 80 points isnt out of the questin for Larkin in 3 years so once Larkin develops he looks like a center you can win with.

Were not talking about entering the playoffs this year, we're talking about when the wings are ready to compete again. Having Larkin as a center in 3 years time doesnt automatically mean they need a vezina goalie and a stacked D like Nashville. What if they draft a bunch of stud wingers? Give him wingers like Hossa, Kane, Sharp from back in the day and Larkin 3 years from now is likely good enough to win
 
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ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
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You may be right but I don't believe it. In any case it's a bad look. Hockeytown they are not and never were.
It was a marketing gimmick, and I don't understand why other team's fans act like we use it as a badge of honor or something.
 

JamieG19

Registered User
Dec 8, 2017
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Holland isn't shy about being secure in his job and listing his accomplishments:

“I’ve been a manager in the league for 23 years. I’ve won three Stanley Cups, five Presidents’ Trophies. I don’t look over my shoulder,” Holland said when asked about Yzerman."
 
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tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
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And how much elite talent was Toronto's system until they landed Matthews? How much did Winnipeg have before they landed Laine?

Yeah they need 1 or 2 elite pieces for sure, but that's what they will hope for by being one of the league's worst teams.

Toronto and Winnipeg both had a lot of pieces before landing Matthews/Laine, including a handful of other top 10 picks. Reilly, Marner, Nylander, Kadri; Byfuglien, Trouba, Wheeler, Schiefele, Ehlers. Even if the Wings are fortunate enough to win the draft lotto (which is a complete crapshoot with the current odds), 1 great talent is never enough. The 2017-18 Edmonton Oilers should be all the proof anyone needs of that. Detroit probably has a long road ahead of it.
 

newfy

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Jul 28, 2010
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Toronto and Winnipeg both had a lot of pieces before landing Matthews/Laine, including a handful of other top 10 picks. Reilly, Marner, Nylander, Kadri; Byfuglien, Trouba, Wheeler, Schiefele, Ehlers. Even if the Wings are fortunate enough to win the draft lotto (which is a complete crapshoot with the current odds), 1 great talent is never enough. The 2017-18 Edmonton Oilers should be all the proof anyone needs of that. Detroit probably has a long road ahead of it.

Not sure they compare exactly but Larkin, Cholowski, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Zadina, Rasmussen are similar to a lot of those players. A couple top 9 picks plus Larkin who is playing like he should've been top 5ish in a lot of drafts as well. Even a guy like Scheifele was a 7th overall, which is a really high pick. Detroit is just bottoming out now and picking guys that early.

An elite talent like Hughes or Kakko this year, plus another top 5 pick next year and you might be surprised how that Detroit group compares to those others in 3 years time
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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Toronto and Winnipeg both had a lot of pieces before landing Matthews/Laine, including a handful of other top 10 picks. Reilly, Marner, Nylander, Kadri; Byfuglien, Trouba, Wheeler, Schiefele, Ehlers. Even if the Wings are fortunate enough to win the draft lotto (which is a complete crapshoot with the current odds), 1 great talent is never enough. The 2017-18 Edmonton Oilers should be all the proof anyone needs of that. Detroit probably has a long road ahead of it.
Cholowski is arguably one of the best rookies of this season so far. Larkin is easily a capable #2C if not a #1C. Zadina has high-end talent. That's the obvious names, not mentioning guys like Veleno, Rasmussen, Berggren, Hronek, Mantha etc.
Keep in mind how many people thought Leafs had many years left of rebuilding in the season before they landed Matthews. Suddenly they inserted several talented rookies and things just took off.
There are no guarantees in rebuilding, especially as you say with the lottery working the way it does. But Wings lacking that big name superstar-esque talent kinda makes people overlook that they are accumulating A LOT of other promising pieces. Compared to Oilers for example Wings are much, much, much better at digging up depth.
 
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