GDT: Wings @ Hawks, preseason Gm 2, 8:30

[DanZ]

Scroll through the Reddit board.

You said "the press"

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Zadina will end up being a bust and those that doubted me will apologize profusely

You would think as a Wings fan you would like to be wrong about him, and would not relish in the fact that one of Detroit's top-10 picks didn't work out, further delaying the rebuild.

 

[saska sault]

Not sure why so many people are negative about our prospects, you can think their ceilings are low.. Their potential isn't what g other believe it to be. The forum is all for discussion but it seems many don't discuss, they just hope our guys fail and flame out lol.. Go wings go!

 

[Gniwder]

Bernier - What an absolute cheap goal to concede. This should really be his last season with us.

Except he has one more year on his contract. Howard's contract expires after this season, not Bernier's.

ide put zadina on the 4 line with glenny and sick him on opponants best wingers . tell him if you score thats a bonus , the minutes your getting are for shutting down other teams big scorers . im changing you into a two way forward

Didn't work for Jurco, won't work for Zadina. Kid needs to figure out his game, preferably in the AHL.

 

[newfy]

Scroll through the Reddit board.

Not a big reddit guy so that might be true (I doubt it) but where has it been said in the media?

 

[Oddbob]

I've actually wondered for a while if we have issues with our development/training program. Too many players not living up to expectations, or regressing or getting injured way too frequently. Can't be a coincidence. Hopefully Stevie corrects the ship here.



Finally, thank you. I'm seeing so many people and the press talking about Zadina's "Great feed/assist" to Hirose when in fact it was a **** shot that was blocked that just happened to fall next to Hirose's feet. Talk about sugar coating.

Who the heck cares if he banked it off the D accidentally? Like Ovechkin or Crosby or McDavid or Gretzky or Lemieux, or Franzen, or Ogrodnick never score(d) on lucky/unintended bank shots or plays! Also, who are all these top end players that didn't turn out for us? And don't bring up Tatar, Nyquist, Smith, Kindl and Jurco and others drafted in their spots. First the draft is a crap shoot, and second if you get a solid NHL'er in the lower rounds you are lucky. Every single team in the league gets great luck with some and horrendous luck with others, and I honestly don't see us being any worse than anyone else.

Example:

-Nolan Patrick a 2nd overall who was hyped as a potential 1st overall has back to back 30 pt seasons.

Rasmussen a 9th overall who was presumed to be a 15th or so overall played his 1st season and put up 18 pts in 62 GP, while being a little underwhelming.

We have only drafted high 3 years running now, and it is way too early to right off guys. Honestly go look back through most drafts for most teams, and it is filled for each and everyone of them with guys who missed heavily what was thought of them. It is getting tiring having to read so many comments about how we suck at developing when we are the same as most of the teams out there. So if we suck, then I guess 95% of all the teams out there suck.

 

[vladdy16]

Zadina is a terrific perimeter player. And i dont mean that as a backhanded compliment.

With as many top picks as we've had recently, we should be grateful for a guy that wont drive the play on his own, and needs talented linemates to succeed.

He's not a sniper or even a 'goalscorer'. He's an opportunist and facilitator. His production ability in a vacuum is nowhere near world class. His potential lies in his ability to form a unique and dynamic combination with his linemates.

 

[MBH]

What's with the hostility?
How many people are "writing off" Rasmussen or Zadina?
Even if people are disappointed in them, or think they were the wrong picks, or whatever... that's not "writing off."
Any sort of criticism is met with really awful attitudes.

I think Zadina still has 20-30 goal potential.
But about 12 months ago, I'd say that, even though I didn't like the pick, I thought he had a chance to be a really special forward. Maybe not Kucherov, but somewhere along that track. Or Pastrnak.
Frankly, that doesn't look realistic at all right now.

So yeah, that's a bit of a disappointment.

Big deal.
He could STILL turn it around and become that guy.
Or maybe he completely flames out of the NHL altogether.
Who freakin' knows?

But, right now, I think it's fair to say Zadina hasn't lived up to most expectations. So far.

 

[Winger98]

But, right now, I think it's fair to say Zadina hasn't lived up to most expectations. So far.

I think a lot of our expectations are just off for picks. I can't find it, but I know @Frk It has posted a table in the past showing the average production for each draft spot. It falls off fast from those top two spots. Was Cory Stillman a great player? I don't think so, but of 6th over all picks he has the 11th highest PPG of all time. If Zadina can average 58 points a year, he's in the top10 of that list.

 

[MBH]

I think a lot of our expectations are just off for picks. I can't find it, but I know @Frk It has posted a table in the past showing the average production for each draft spot. It falls off fast from those top two spots. Was Cory Stillman a great player? I don't think so, but of 6th over all picks he has the 11th highest PPG of all time. If Zadina can average 58 points a year, he's in the top10 of that list.

A lot of expectations, especially from fans, are totally stupid.
We get cowed. We get told what we want to hear and we eat it up.
I'm guilty of it too.

But Zadina? Man, the entire hockey universe pumped this kid's tires.
And at the WJC, he looked better than Svechnikov. Lots of people were saying he should go above Svech.

(My only heartburn on Zadina was that it was a defense-rich draft, and there were 4 defensemen we could have used)

Zadina was 3rd on almost every list. So it felt like he fell to us because other teams picked for need (center). So we were getting a #3 at #6.

Lots of great guys at #3 at that link you provided.

 

[Flowah]

You would think as a Wings fan you would like to be wrong about him, and would not relish in the fact that one of Detroit's top-10 picks didn't work out, further delaying the rebuild.

You could say this about any of our players. I would hope I'm wrong on Abby, Ericsson, Daley, Rasmussen. I would hope Abby becomes a PPG scoring machine with physicality. Ericsson and Daley turn the clock back 10 years. Rasmussen becomes a huge 2C.

But I prefer not to hope. I prefer to just judge the players for what I think they are and will become. Zadina really has never impressed me in 2 years of camps, preseasons, a few GR games, those few NHL callup games. For a #6 pick he's pretty disappointing so far, especially given the possibility of a guy like Quinn Hughes...

 

[ArGarBarGar]

You could say this about any of our players. I would hope I'm wrong on Abby, Ericsson, Daley, Rasmussen. I would hope Abby becomes a PPG scoring machine with physicality. Ericsson and Daley turn the clock back 10 years. Rasmussen becomes a huge 2C.

But I prefer not to hope. I prefer to just judge the players for what I think they are and will become. Zadina really has never impressed me in 2 years of camps, preseasons, a few GR games, those few NHL callup games. For a #6 pick he's pretty disappointing so far, especially given the possibility of a guy like Quinn Hughes...

Okay, this is all well and good, but I was responding specifically to someone who was acting like they were going to gloat about them being "right" about a player not working out, as if that is something worthy of gloating about.

I'm not saying nobody should ever have a negative projection of a Red Wings player. That would be ridiculous.

 

[Hen Kolland]

You could say this about any of our players. I would hope I'm wrong on Abby, Ericsson, Daley, Rasmussen. I would hope Abby becomes a PPG scoring machine with physicality. Ericsson and Daley turn the clock back 10 years. Rasmussen becomes a huge 2C.

But I prefer not to hope. I prefer to just judge the players for what I think they are and will become. Zadina really has never impressed me in 2 years of camps, preseasons, a few GR games, those few NHL callup games. For a #6 pick he's pretty disappointing so far, especially given the possibility of a guy like Quinn Hughes...

There is a difference between a player coming off of his first professional season as a teenager playing in the AHL and veterans with 10+ years of experience and are physically declining in their ability to play the game.

Zadina and Rasmussen are subject to a vastly different type of criticism than Daley, Ericsson or Abdelkader. Glossing over that makes it feel like you are riding a slant.

 

[MBH]

I gotta say, Boqvist looked like the real deal the other night.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I gotta say, Boqvist looked like the real deal the other night.

I didn't notice him in his defensive zone all that much, which I guess isn't a terrible thing, but he does have a different element to his game in the offensive end.

 

[Kingpin794]

What's with the hostility?
How many people are "writing off" Rasmussen or Zadina?
Even if people are disappointed in them, or think they were the wrong picks, or whatever... that's not "writing off."
Any sort of criticism is met with really awful attitudes.

I think Zadina still has 20-30 goal potential.
But about 12 months ago, I'd say that, even though I didn't like the pick, I thought he had a chance to be a really special forward. Maybe not Kucherov, but somewhere along that track. Or Pastrnak.
Frankly, that doesn't look realistic at all right now.

So yeah, that's a bit of a disappointment.

Big deal.
He could STILL turn it around and become that guy.
Or maybe he completely flames out of the NHL altogether.
Who freakin' knows?

But, right now, I think it's fair to say Zadina hasn't lived up to most expectations. So far.

What are your expectations for him at this point in his career?

Last year he progressed very well from the beginning of the year to the end and his production was solid for an 18 yr old. That’s all I wanted out of him last year. Honest question, what did you expect him to do? He became more confident with the puck/got use to the speed of the pro game and with that came better decision making because he could just play instead of thinking so much out there. He still has another gear that he needs to tap in to before he’s ready for NHL full time. He’s going to go right back to overthinking/overplaying things if we rush him up to the Wings just because.

This year I’d like to see him at 50/55 pts for the Griffins and get a handful of games for the Wings before seriously challenging for a spot on the Wings in 2020. What are your expectations for him this season?

 

[izlez]

Okay, this is all well and good, but I was responding specifically to someone who was acting like they were going to gloat about them being "right" about a player not working out, as if that is something worthy of gloating about.

I'm not saying nobody should ever have a negative projection of a Red Wings player. That would be ridiculous.

99% of this board for the last 5+ years has been people "hoping" and "gloating" that they were right about failures, rooting for us to be in last place so that we can get a high pick.

Those people could have been rooting to be wrong about Abdelkader and Helm and Eriksson and Nielsen and Blashill and Holland, and hoping we win the Stanley Cup.... but rooting for failure suddenly becomes a problem when it's a precious high pick?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

99% of this board for the last 5+ years has been people "hoping" and "gloating" that they were right about failures, rooting for us to be in last place so that we can get a high pick.

I don't agree with this at all.

 

[MBH]

What are your expectations for him at this point in his career?

Last year he progressed very well from the beginning of the year to the end and his production was solid for an 18 yr old. That’s all I wanted out of him last year. Honest question, what did you expect him to do? He became more confident with the puck/got use to the speed of the pro game and with that came better decision making because he could just play instead of thinking so much out there. He still has another gear that he needs to tap in to before he’s ready for NHL full time. He’s going to go right back to overthinking/overplaying things if we rush him up to the Wings just because.

This year I’d like to see him at 50/55 pts for the Griffins and get a handful of games for the Wings before seriously challenging for a spot on the Wings in 2020. What are your expectations for him this season?

At this point? Yeah, I'd like to see 20-25 goals in GR.
Tatar 24-33-57 in his sophomore year.
Zadina should be able to do the same.

What did I expect? Based on scouting reports and articles by the experts, on draft day, I thought he'd be at least CLOSE to ready for an NHL job.
By the time the prospect tournament was over, I knew that was probably not the case.
By the time the exhibition season was over, definitely not the case.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I don't agree with this at all.

Not that high but a solid majority in my opinion would put it in the 70% range.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Not that high but a solid majority in my opinion would put it in the 70%.

See that is conflating "I think these players are bad and will argue with you about it" with "I think these players are bad and look forward to rubbing it in your face when I am proven right."

No, I do not believe people are jumping for joy at the prospect that Abdelkader and Helm really don't live up to their contract, that Howard won't be the solution in net for a Cup, or that Blashill will be fired for not being a good coach.

 

[Pavels Dog]

For a #6 pick he's pretty disappointing so far, especially given the possibility of a guy like Quinn Hughes...

They both have less than 10 NHL games played, I'd call it a bit premature to draw conclusions but what do I know..