Helene St. James Wings eyeing Bouchard

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Going by what I've heard he seems way more of an on-ice quitter than AA

There's an EN goal by Bouchard on one of the videos, and Merkley is the only guy back to defend. Once the puck hits center ice, he completely quits on the play. He stops skating, turns away from the net, and looks like he's going to the bench. He doesn't even try to defend. I was pretty surprised.

I'm sure that's not what people mean when they bring it up, but that's the kind of thing he does.

 

[lilidk]

I'll be happy with either Bouchard or Dobsin at this point.

and if both of them available at #6 , what would you do : Bouchard, Dobsin or trade down just like Holland did with Mantha?

 

[Henkka]

and if both of them available at #6 , what would you do : Bouchard, Dobsin or trade down just like Holland did with Mantha?

Just pick the more favorable player.

 

[Hammettf2b]

There's an EN goal by Bouchard on one of the videos, and Merkley is the only guy back to defend. Once the puck hits center ice, he completely quits on the play. He stops skating, turns away from the net, and looks like he's going to the bench. He doesn't even try to defend. I was pretty surprised.

I'm sure that's not what people mean when they bring it up, but that's the kind of thing he does.

can you link me the video to that?

 

[jkutswings]

I know it's off topic but... there are other ways to cure a cold?

Lots and lots of coney dogs. Or as Lidstrom would say, Konus and Magic:

 

[jkutswings]

I like both players, but:
1) I don't believe anything "guaranteed" before a draft, and
2) Detroit would be dumb to completely limit their options to staying at 6 and taking 1 of 2 guys. Let things play out, and see what options and offers come your way.

 

[lilidk]

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

can you link me the video to that?

I looked a little bit earlier and I couldn't find it. I might have gotten it mixed up with another player's highlights. There's a goal where Merkley stands there like an idiot and doesn't do anything while Bouchard snipes it from the point, though. Like there's nobody near him, nobody he's defending, etc. He's not blocking the shot. He's just... lost.

 

[Oddbob]

Watched U18 game Merkley was in, he was last guy back, the puck was quite close to Merkley at opp. blueline and all three forwards from the other team, blew past him, eventhough two of them were near their own net at the start of things. It was basically like he hit mud, got stuck and just stayed in place. He looked very good offensively, but if he just going to be a no care attitude player in other aspects of the game, I don't want him. We already have AA, don't need anymore.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Didn't we draft for character guys last year to push talent players like Merkley? Wrights plan is coming to fruition.

From what I've heard about Merkley he does not sound like someone you gamble on with a high pick. More like... if he's still around in the 3rd maybe we can take a flier on him.

 

[Konnan511]

Let's see how Hughes does Canada this morning. I'd be happy with Bouchard or Hughes.

 

[Henkka]

From what I've heard about Merkley he does not sound like someone you gamble on with a high pick. More like... if he's still around in the 3rd maybe we can take a flier on him.

I would pick him with one of our 30-36 range of picks.

 

[DetroitRed]

Nice side-by-side comparison. Thanks.

I was already hoping for Dobson and I think this video made me more resolute. Not that I dislike Bouchard, but Dobson's skating and defense looks like exactly what Detroit needs. I think the video showed Bouchard averaged about a half-point per game higher than Dobson last season, but it eventually noted that because Bouchard is about 10 months older than Dobson, he's had one more OHL season than Dobson. I would imagine that Noah Dobson would close that gap in offense between he and Bouchard a bit if given another OHL season to develop, plus Dobson's defense by that point would be, at least comparably, phenomenal.

 

[Frk It]

Nice side-by-side comparison. Thanks.

I was already hoping for Dobson and I think this video made me more resolute. Not that I dislike Bouchard, but Dobson's skating and defense looks like exactly what Detroit needs. I think the video showed Bouchard averaged about a half-point per game higher than Dobson last season, but it eventually noted that because Bouchard is about 10 months older than Dobson, he's had one more OHL season than Dobson. I would imagine that Noah Dobson would close that gap in offense between he and Bouchard a bit if given another OHL season to develop, plus Dobson's defense by that point would be, at least comparably, phenomenal.

Assuming you just meant another year in Juniors, but Dobson plays in the Q not the OHL.

 

[DetroitRed]

Assuming you just meant another year in Juniors, but Dobson plays in the Q not the OHL.

That's right. Sorry. QMJHL isn't the best league for developing defenders, but still.

 

[newfy]

Itll be interesting next year if his numbers stagnate a bit (I doubt his production will increase like some guys) what people will think of him

 

[HisNoodliness]

Itll be interesting next year if his numbers stagnate a bit (I doubt his production will increase like some guys) what people will think of him

Are you referring to Bouchard or Dobson?

I think Bouchard's numbers probably won't improve too much. He's already physically developed, relatively old and played huge minutes this year. I think he'll get better at handling the huge minutes and see some bump from having more speed and energy... But it's hard to put up points like he did this year. Expecting a big improvement would be unfair. If we draft him I'd just like to see him improve his skating, improve his overall game and keep producing.

If we were to take Dobson I'd hope for an improvement in his stats and some development of his offensive zone production. He's already great in transition and as shown in that highlight above he has skill. Just keep developing.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I am honestly not sure you should keep Bouchard down if you draft him. He is pretty ready to contribute in a managed role at the NHL level because of his frame. What he needs to improve on is really skating and pro kind of stuff. You could keep him there for skating alone I guess, but if that is your assessment of his skating that it precludes him from the NHL right now, I really question the pick at #6. If we draft Bouchard I want him up next year.

 

[odin1981]

and if both of them available at #6 , what would you do : Bouchard, Dobsin or trade down just like Holland did with Mantha?

If both are available which I doubt, I would pick Dobsin. He seems to me more of a 2 way minute muncher that we need. Kinda get Suter vibes from him. Not saying he pans out just like him. But a much better skater and rh to boot with I believe better defensive instincts than Bouchard. That being said what do I know I'm just a fan not a scout.

 

[newfy]

If both are available which I doubt, I would pick Dobsin. He seems to me more of a 2 way minute muncher that we need. Kinda get Suter vibes from him. Not saying he pans out just like him. But a much better skater and rh to boot with I believe better defensive instincts than Bouchard. That being said what do I know I'm just a fan not a scout.

Dont know if Dobson has that 45-50 point consistent offense that you would get from Suter but you never know. Defensively, from what I've een I get the same vibe. His offense in the playoffs to end the year has not been great though which is what has me worried. You could say there is something like that with all the 4 dmen though after Dahlin. Dobsons offense, Hughes size/defensive play, Boqvist size/defensive play/concussions, Bouchard skating.

I think I risk Bouchards skating (which isnt actually bad, just not elite like the other 4) over hoping for Dobson to develop offensively but I havent seen enough to make the call and I think both are NHL players.

 

[TheMule93]

I think Bouchard will be the worst of the group offensively

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I think Bouchard will be the worst of the group offensively

Why do you think that? Knowing of course that Bouchard had the best offensive season of any of them

 

[odin1981]

Dont know if Dobson has that 45-50 point consistent offense that you would get from Suter but you never know. Defensively, from what I've een I get the same vibe. His offense in the playoffs to end the year has not been great though which is what has me worried. You could say there is something like that with all the 4 dmen though after Dahlin. Dobsons offense, Hughes size/defensive play, Boqvist size/defensive play/concussions, Bouchard skating.

I think I risk Bouchards skating (which isnt actually bad, just not elite like the other 4) over hoping for Dobson to develop offensively but I havent seen enough to make the call and I think both are NHL players.

Yeah he might not have more than 1 maybe 2 years of the top end offense wise but if in say 5-8 years he is a 28- 30 minute muncher like Suter it would be possible just not super likely. I think it is more likely he is in the 35-44 point production bracket.

The main benefit that I see him having is his transition game. With the NHL going faster and faster due to the pens recent wins. His transition game will be very favorable in my eyes for making the jump when he gets their. Also with Larkin and AA currently if both are still on the team when he arrives his assist production should be good especially if they are out on the ice with him.

One thing though I'll say for a disclaimer I have troubles with foresight for junior players. After I see them in the AHL for a year or two my vision gets better at projecting them.