Confirmed with Link: Wings extend with Lashoff - 3 years, one-way, $725k/yr

[RedWingsNow*]

So Bob has an irrational dislike for Lashoff. Shocking.

Hey, Kindl might still turn into something though!

I have no dislike for Lashoff.

I have a dislike for Lashoff playing in the NHL unless there are no options.

 

[Heaton]

My god. Calm the **** down.


I am not saying Lashoff won't be a third pairing defenseman one day. I am saying he is not good enough now.

I'd prefer we finally give a kid with talent (Kindl) a chance than waste our time with a guy who MIGHT be a defensive defenseman if he turns up his intensity and learns positioning.

I deem him worthless right now.

Of all the ****ing "kids" to give a primetime role ... Kindl, Nyquist, Tatar, Mursak, Emmerton -- we give it to someone who has no business in the NHL.

And guess what. Lashoff's stats demonstrate my point quite clearly.

Kindl has had over 100 games of chances.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Kindl has had over 100 games of chances.

And he's taken advantage of his chances this year. Being probably our 3rd best defenseman.

I'd rather have Lashoff as the #8 defenseman playing in GR as the first call-up. If he's gonna develop into a bottom-pairing defenseman he needs to work hard on his positioning.

 

[Heaton]

And he's taken advantage of his chances this year. Being probably our 3rd best defenseman.

I'd rather have Lashoff as the #8 defenseman playing in GR as the first call-up. If he's gonna develop into a bottom-pairing defenseman he needs to work hard on his positioning.

I think Kindl has been OK, better than Lashoff but I still expect him traded at some point.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Kindl has had over 100 games of chances.

I doubt there's ever been a stretch in Kindl's career that he had the kind of time that Lashoff was getting recently.

I also doubt there's ever been a point in Kindl's career that he went more than 2 straight games playing primarily with the Datsyuk or Zetterberg line.

The thing about Babcock's use of Lashoff that is so absurd...is that he was using a guy with very little ability on with his #1 scoring line.

As a result, the scoring line was hamstrung and basically shorthanded and spent more time running around its own end than running around the opposition's end -- which never bodes well for the Wings.

If Kindl is traded...good. I want to see the kid succeed and I hope he goes to an organization that gives him a shot.

Maybe Kindl is a complete bum and maybe he doesn't listen to the coach in practice. But based on what I see with my eyes in the games -- playing Lashoff over Kindl is pure stupidity.

Playing Lashoff over just about anybody is dumb

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Wings record with Kindl in the lineup is 8-2-2 or something.

Going into tonight he was tied for 31st in the league in even strength points...despite missing many games and playing few minutes... and playing most of those minutes with guys who can't score to save their life.

he's also a plus player averaging more than a hit per game.

The problem with Kindl is the mistakes he makes with the puck between bluelines.

 

[jaster]

Kindl is something already.

True. An awkward, malformed #7 "puck-moving" defenseman still living off his draft position for many fans. At 26yo.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

True. An awkward, malformed #7 "puck-moving" defenseman still living off his draft position for many fans. At 26yo.

Well I guess we agree to disagree.

 

[jaster]

I have no dislike for Lashoff.

I have a dislike for Lashoff playing in the NHL unless there are no options.

Well, yeah. I didn't believe you dislike Lashoff personally.

 

[jaster]

And he's taken advantage of his chances this year. Being probably our 3rd best defenseman.

Why is our 3rd best defenseman getting less IT than 7 of our other blueliners?

I would agree that Kindl has stepped up this season. A wee bit. He's done ok in a limited role with very protected minutes. He's gone from being pretty bad to being below average. But he's still 8th on the depth chart, after starting the year 7th. And despite his 5 points, he generates very limited offense (3 of his assists were secondary and had virtually nothing to do with the goals that were scored) for a supposed offensive defenseman.

 

[jaster]

By the way, Kindl has the worst turnover-to-takeaway ratio of our defenseman. The guy with the best ratio? Lashoff. It's just one stat, but it's more meaningful than +/- over a 19-game sample size, especially when one strips the context from those +/- numbers. Kindl also hits less than Lashoff, and his hits are not any harder.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Can we just agree the team needs something more than either Kindl, Lashoff or Huskins to have a competitive defense?

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Why is our 3rd best defenseman getting less IT than 7 of our other blueliners?

I would agree that Kindl has stepped up this season. A wee bit. He's done ok in a limited role with very protected minutes. He's gone from being pretty bad to being below average. But he's still 8th on the depth chart, after starting the year 7th. And despite his 5 points, he generates very limited offense (3 of his assists were secondary and had virtually nothing to do with the goals that were scored) for a supposed offensive defenseman.

Why are Danny Cleary and Justin Abdelkader playing alongside Pavel Datsyuk? Nobody knows. Babcock has his favorites and it shows in his distribution of TOI.

I just don't get how you could say he's been below-average. He had one rough game where he was admittedly very terrible and then one period where he had 3 minor penalties. Other than that he's done everything he's been asked to do and more, other than the PP but you can't put all the blame on him for that abysmal second unit. His ES production is the best on the team by a fair margin and that's while playing with our third and fourth lines.

By the way, Kindl has the worst turnover-to-takeaway ratio of our defenseman. The guy with the best ratio? Lashoff. It's just one stat, but it's more meaningful than +/- over a 19-game sample size, especially when one strips the context from those +/- numbers. Kindl also hits less than Lashoff, and his hits are not any harder.

I don't care much for +/- anyways. But yeah your right that is impressive of Lashoff, but if he's going to play with our core players he needs to cover for Kronwall or produce points too, and he's not doing either. And if you argue he's over his head on the top-pairing, which he is, then I don't know how he do better than what Kindl has done on the second and third-pairing.

 

[icKx]

Why is our 3rd best defenseman getting less IT than 7 of our other blueliners?

I would agree that Kindl has stepped up this season. A wee bit. He's done ok in a limited role with very protected minutes. He's gone from being pretty bad to being below average. But he's still 8th on the depth chart, after starting the year 7th. And despite his 5 points, he generates very limited offense (3 of his assists were secondary and had virtually nothing to do with the goals that were scored) for a supposed offensive defenseman.

Ok jaster.

Kindl has earned his keep this season.

 

[jaster]

Why are Danny Cleary and Justin Abdelkader playing alongside Pavel Datsyuk? Nobody knows. Babcock has his favorites and it shows in his distribution of TOI.

Well, it's mostly because of injuries. And as little of a fan as I am of both Cleary and Abdelkader, there haven't really been many other options with Franzen, Samuelsson, and Bertuzzi out. The only player I see who a good case can be made for is Tatar, but even he has his drawbacks at this point (compared to Cleary and Abs, he's smaller and weaker, and less defensively responsible). Either way, it's a smaller gap than that of the supposed 3rd best dman getting the 8th most IT. I don't know exactly where Kindl ranks. It's hard to say with different dmen having different roles and responsibilities, and given that so many of our dmen have been largely mediocre this year, but I don't think Kindl has been better than all but 2 of our guys. He's had too many mistakes, too many bad games, hasn't been anything special defensively, and hasn't really generated much offense (i.e. 0 points in 30 minutes of PP time).

I just don't get how you could say he's been below-average. He had one rough game where he was admittedly very terrible and then one period where he had 3 minor penalties.

To me he's had more than one bad game. He's had several, including the one with the 2 or 3 bad penalties. He's had some ok games as well, but the aggregate is pretty meh. I say he's below average mainly because he's not really providing anything special, he's just kinda been a plug, a plug with a lot of mistakes and turnovers.

Other than that he's done everything he's been asked to do and more, other than the PP but you can't put all the blame on him for that abysmal second unit. His ES production is the best on the team by a fair margin and that's while playing with our third and fourth lines.

His ES production has largely been due to a great individual play by Tatar, some dogged work by Miller and Tootoo, and a freakishly lucky bounce (Tootoo goal). He had virtually no meaningful involvement in any of those goals. Even his own goal was puck luck, a weak wrister from the point with his head down after being pressured by an opposition winger. His assist to Andersson was nice though; head up, crisp pass to the open man with no hesitation. If he did that more, it'd be easier to like him. But he's too often impatient with the puck for my taste, and rarely shows the kind of offensive creativity you'd like to see consistently from a top-4 offensive defenseman.

I don't care much for +/- anyways. But yeah your right that is impressive of Lashoff, but if he's going to play with our core players he needs to cover for Kronwall or produce points too, and he's not doing either. And if you argue he's over his head on the top-pairing, which he is, then I don't know how he do better than what Kindl has done on the second and third-pairing.

I agree on the first half here. Lashoff needs to be better if he's going to play on the top pair, or even the 2nd pair. But he's a good bottom-pair guy right now, with some upside. Kindl.... I'm not convinced he's even a good bottom-pair option atm, and I don't see him ever being a reliable top-4. He's not great defensively, he turns the puck over too much, and he doesn't really generate any offense. However, I will say that I'd rather have him on the bottom pair with Quincey scratched than have Kindl scratched and Quincey anywhere in the lineup

 

[jaster]

Ok jaster.

Kindl has earned his keep this season.

That's the one I was just talking about. The one of his four assists that actually had something to do with the goal. The one offensive play he has made this season that was 1) good, and 2) resulted in a goal. Wish he'd do that more.

But one good offensive play in 12 games by an offensive defenseman doesn't mean he has earned his keep. Unless you have really low standards

 

[icKx]

But one good offensive play in 12 games by an offensive defenseman doesn't mean he has earned his keep. Unless you have really low standards

Edit

Saw the Q comments. Nvm, fair enough.

 

[RedMenace]

You know who would be a good pairing?

Kindl and Lashoff.

/thread