Prospect Info: Wings come in at #9 on Scott Wheeler's Prospect Pool Rankings (Paywall: The Athletic)

[The Zetterberg Era]

I don't think it's misguiding at all. Pettersson only has 36 more games before he loses his waiver eligibility. Assuming he doesn't get hurt, he'll have to clear waivers seven games into next season. Regardless of how good he is, I don't have a big problem with calling a 21 year old a prospect.

I'm not glancing over anything with Rasmussen. The Wings need talented players. So, why isn't Seider up? Why hasn't Hirose been brought back up? Chris Terry and Matt Puempel could arguably be upgrades over guys we're still icing every night. This doesn't take anything from Zadina, or say that he shouldn't have been called up. But I don't think it would have been surprising if Zadina never got called up if the injuries didn't hit.

Not that the particulars are really the point, the point is what you get at in the bolded. Because of the subjective nature of his criteria, it's going to inherently be messy. There are going to be things like counting Boquist as a prospect while not counting Zadina despite their situations being nearly identical. While we might not like thinking of Pettersson as a prospect for 36 more games (well, 35 after tonight), waiver eligibility also makes the argument far more black and white. And, especially for when we do our prospect lists, I like the simplicity of it over having to constantly debate about whether or not Cholowski is still a prospect.



The hope was that he'd be Getzlaf, but the sort of impact I've always expected has been closer to Bobby Holik. And I don't have a problem with that.

Yeah I am generally in fan of a black and white line. For years when I was doing the prospect poll, my cutoff was Calder eligibility. Now that would certainly bump Cholo and Ras from the conversation, but I always thought if the league doesn't consider you a rookie and you're ticking off years of contract status then to me you're working towards your veteran service years and shouldn't count. But I don't think it is something you can get everyone to agree on.

It is a part of why I have converted to the TSN U-23 or U-25 organizational model a lot.

I have actually been pretty impressed by Ras in the middle when he has been in this year. He really needs to get healthy for a stretch. That part of his comparisons to another name Hanzal. Scary news on him is he is LTIRetired at 32 on the Stars right now. But he was a good defensive player that was a monster special teams guy for years. We will see, Ras still has a lot of game, I think he has better offensive upside than Veleno. I still would rather draft Byfield and shift one of those guys out to the wing long-term anyway. Ras could be your answer for Stutzle though in terms of him playing center in the defensive zone draws and Stutzle playing center in the offensive zone, really anchoring both guys into roles where they are best. We will have to see, Ras could be a very versatile weapon still if he puts it all together, I have not given up on that part of the logic yet.

 

[Winger98]

Yeah I am generally in fan of a black and white line. For years when I was doing the prospect poll, my cutoff was Calder eligibility. Now that would certainly bump Cholo and Ras from the conversation, but I always thought if the league doesn't consider you a rookie and you're ticking off years of contract status then to me you're working towards your veteran service years and shouldn't count. But I don't think it is something you can get everyone to agree on.

It is a part of why I have converted to the TSN U-23 or U-25 organizational model a lot.

I have actually been pretty impressed by Ras in the middle when he has been in this year. He really needs to get healthy for a stretch. That part of his comparisons to another name Hanzal. Scary news on him is he is LTIRetired at 32 on the Stars right now. But he was a good defensive player that was a monster special teams guy for years. We will see, Ras still has a lot of game, I think he has better offensive upside than Veleno. I still would rather draft Byfield and shift one of those guys out to the wing long-term anyway. Ras could be your answer for Stutzle though in terms of him playing center in the defensive zone draws and Stutzle playing center in the offensive zone, really anchoring both guys into roles where they are best. We will have to see, Ras could be a very versatile weapon still if he puts it all together, I have not given up on that part of the logic yet.

My problem with the calder thing is that it's such a low bar before guys get booted out of it - especially with how the Wings have typically moved guys into Detroit, giving them ten games here, 15 games there.

And I don't have a problem with having our own Hanzal, either. Like you, I'm not ready to give up on the guy and I see far more reasons to be optimistic than pessimistic with his play in GR. We end up drafting another center, then moving someone to wing is a nice problem to have. In those 3rd and 4th spots, I keep wondering if Lundell is going to sneak into the conversation for the Wings. The guy isn't flashy, but I have a hard time questioning the likelihood of him sticking at center or being an NHLer. I have a hard time seeing him as a clear cut 1C at any point, but I don't have a hard time seeing him slide in behind a guy like Larkin and eventually giving a team a very good 1-2 punch down the middle.

 

[Red Stanley]

So he makes the NHL at 19 and doesnt look great, and hes maybe a third liner? Thats different than thinking hes going to be a third liner though when you put emphasis on maybe and make it sound like if hes lucky he'll be that. He could end up a third liner for sure but hes trending in the way of a top 6 player and if hes a third liner its because of the depth Detroit will have. A 6'6 third line shut down center that can put up 50 points with PP time is a really useful weapon.



Trending towards a top line player and trending towards Getzlaf are two completely different things. Hes not trending towards all star first line, top 5 center in the game like Getzlaf was at a point in time. Thats different than a top line or top 6 player though

And, really, who cares which line he plays on as long as his line is effective? If he develops well and is still "only" a third line player, that probably means our top two lines are stacked.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

My problem with the calder thing is that it's such a low bar before guys get booted out of it - especially with how the Wings have typically moved guys into Detroit, giving them ten games here, 15 games there.

And I don't have a problem with having our own Hanzal, either. Like you, I'm not ready to give up on the guy and I see far more reasons to be optimistic than pessimistic with his play in GR. We end up drafting another center, then moving someone to wing is a nice problem to have. In those 3rd and 4th spots, I keep wondering if Lundell is going to sneak into the conversation for the Wings. The guy isn't flashy, but I have a hard time questioning the likelihood of him sticking at center or being an NHLer. I have a hard time seeing him as a clear cut 1C at any point, but I don't have a hard time seeing him slide in behind a guy like Larkin and eventually giving a team a very good 1-2 punch down the middle.

I would have a real hard time taking that guy (Lundell) over Stutzle or Raymond. Drysdale is too good on the back-end for me to pass up for him as well. I like him as a player, but I think he is the best of the next tier. I will say I would take him over Holtz in terms of a guy that I sometimes see high on lists and doesn't really wow me.I also still have time to debate him with Rossi or Perfetti and I do like both those guys. I think Lundell has fallen out of favor a little too much, but I usually like pretty industrious centers.

Heck I would roll the dice on Askarov over Lundell as well... Ducks for cover

I want one of:

Lafreniere
Byfield
Stutzle
Askarov
Raymond
Drysdale

I will be kind of disappointed if we don't take one of those guys at this point.

When I see Lundell there are times I see a lot of Lars Eller to be honest. We will see.

 

[Frk It]

I would have a real hard time taking that guy over Stutzle or Raymond. Drysdale is too good on the back-end for me to pass up for him as well. I like him as a player, but I think he is the best of the next tier. I will say I would take him over Holtz in terms of a guy that I sometimes see high on lists and doesn't really wow me.I also still have time to debate him with Rossi or Perfetti and I do like both those guys. I think Lundell has fallen out of favor a little too much, but I usually like pretty industrious centers.

Heck I would roll the dice on Askarov over Lundell as well... Ducks for cover

I want one of:

Lafreniere
Byfield
Stutzle
Askarov
Raymond
Drysdale

I will be kind of disappointed if we don't take one of those guys at this point.

Who?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Who?

Lundell

 

[Frk It]

Lundell

I see. I like Lundell, but yeah I wouldn’t either.

I have been thinking a lot about how scouts said this could be a draft where you have a Petterson level guy that goes after the top pick or two. At first I thought that was just posturing, but I don’t know.

This draft is pretty unique as far as Stutzle and Raymond. Stutzle is playing in a league that not a lot of draftees have come out of, so its hard to benchmark what he’s doing. How good is 29 pts in 32 games in the DEL in your draft year? Well, not sure we really know.

Then you have Raymond, where last I looked on the SHL site he was getting 10:14 a game. Didn’t have a single game all year where he logged 13 minutes or more. But any time I’ve seen that kid play against people his age he has balled out.

So could they cross the pond and exceed expectations? Yeah, definitely possible.

 

[Winger98]

I would have a real hard time taking that guy over Stutzle or Raymond. Drysdale is too good on the back-end for me to pass up for him as well. I like him as a player, but I think he is the best of the next tier. I will say I would take him over Holtz in terms of a guy that I sometimes see high on lists and doesn't really wow me.I also still have time to debate him with Rossi or Perfetti and I do like both those guys. I think Lundell has fallen out of favor a little too much, but I usually like pretty industrious centers.

Heck I would roll the dice on Askarov over Lundell as well... Ducks for cover

I want one of:

Lafreniere
Byfield
Stutzle
Askarov
Raymond
Drysdale

I will be kind of disappointed if we don't take one of those guys at this point.

I don't disagree with the list, except I do have Lundell in that group behind Lafreniere. I inherently don't trust goalies, so Askarov is at the bottom, though. If we had a second high first, like Ottawa, I'd probably be all for grabbing him with it. It's not a free shot, but it's close enough for me to be okay taking it. there is so little room for error with a goalie, though. If he doesn't make it as a starter, you're probably getting no value out of that pick. But if Stutzle or Byfield don't make it as 1Cs, they could still be really good 2Cs, or second line wings, or even 3Cs and provide some respectable value.

Alright, I just talked myself out of it. I'd pick Stutzle and Raymond, instead.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I see. I like Lundell, but yeah I wouldn’t either.

I have been thinking a lot about how scouts said this could be a draft where you have a Petterson level guy that goes after the top pick or two. At first I thought that was just posturing, but I don’t know.

This draft is pretty unique as far as Stutzle and Raymond. Stutzle is playing in a league that not a lot of draftees have come out of, so its hard to benchmark what he’s doing. How good is 29 pts in 32 games in the DEL in your draft year? Well, not sure we really know.

Then you have Raymond, where last I looked on the SHL site he was getting 10:14 a game. Didn’t have a single game all year where he logged 13 minutes or more. But any time I’ve seen that kid play against people his age he has balled out.

So could they cross the pond and exceed expectations? Yeah, definitely possible.

Plus there is this generational goalie across the pond that should snag several Vezina Trophies and might actually be the best player when the dust settles on this draft...

I get the point, I am curious how much Rossi can gain. He is the big riser right now that I just don't see top 5 value with. I mean I like him as a top 10 player, I guess I will have to watch him closer in the second half.

I will say this about the draft class, the guy we pick 1-4 is going to be at the top of my list when we talk prospects and I love Seider, but yeah I think we are getting a better player in this draft which is exciting. A big couple of pieces for our rebuild and with Zadina looking better and better we are starting to hit on picks we need thus far. Time will tell, but these should be three pieces we hopefully have and are good with at some point.

 

[Frk It]

Plus there is this generational goalie across the pond that should snag several Vezina Trophies and might actually be the best player when the dust settles on this draft...

Spencer Knight was actually drafted last year... and he was also drafted at a much more reasonable spot...

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Spencer Knight was actually drafted last year... and he was also drafted at a much more reasonable spot...

Man I hope that is the case as a USA fan, I think Askarov is better than him and I thought Knight had top 10 value to be honest. Best two goalies since Price in my opinion in terms of at their pre-draft phase. Really fascinated to see how they turn out. Interesting that Gibson and Vasy were drafted one year after the other with the American first, those are the best two younger/prime goalies in the league in my opinion and I think Knight and Askarov are the next wave that holds that mantle.

Like I said I think whatever guy they pick though is leading this list in the summertime. I am fascinated to see how Yzerman and company decide.

Also in terms of this list, could not have been more impressed with Mastro when I had on the Beanpot semifinal on. That dude has crazy hockey sense and compete level, super pumped about how he plays the game. Was a guy you championed all of last year. Kudos on that call, he needs to get a little more in his skating, but he looks like a real player.

 

[Frk It]

Man I hope that is the case as a USA fan, I think Askarov is better than him and I thought Knight had top 10 value to be honest. Best two goalies since Price in my opinion in terms of at their pre-draft phase. Really fascinated to see how they turn out. Interesting that Gibson and Vasy were drafted one year after the other with the American first, those are the best two younger/prime goalies in the league in my opinion and I think Knight and Askarov are the next wave that holds that mantle.

Like I said I think whatever guy they pick though is leading this list in the summertime. I am fascinated to see how Yzerman and company decide.

Also in terms of this list, could not have been more impressed with Mastro when I had on the Beanpot semifinal on. That dude has crazy hockey sense and compete level, super pumped about how he plays the game. Was a guy you championed all of last year. Kudos on that call, he needs to get a little more in his skating, but he looks like a real player.

Askarov may be better, I don’t know though, I really like Knight. Kinda feel like beating that historic USA team just put Askarov on this pedestal that I am leery putting a goalie on. I was a lot more comfortable at the idea of taking Knight 10-15.

Both those kids are the best goalie prospects in some time. But I’d slot Askarov at somewhere like 7-10 for us in this draft.

I’d take Lafreniere, Byfield, Raymond, Drysdale, Stutzle, and Perfetti before I’d take Askarov. That would not be a pick I’d receive well in the top 4, cannot lie to you.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Askarov may be better, I don’t know though, I really like Knight. Kinda feel like beating that historic USA team just put Askarov on this pedestal that I am leery putting a goalie on. I was a lot more comfortable at the idea of taking Knight 10-15.

Both those kids are the best goalie prospects in some time. But I’d slot Askarov at somewhere like 7-10 for us in this draft.

I’d take Lafreniere, Byfield, Raymond, Drysdale, Stutzle, and Perfetti before I’d take Askarov. That would not be a pick I’d receive well in the top 4, cannot lie to you.

Perfetti is a guy I don't really want at 4 anymore, I know you like him, but kind of like a recent pick of ours he is falling in his draft year for me. I mean they will have a good book on him, but I don't really like his skating tools enough with what else is an option there. With Zadina already in the fold, I think he is kind of a redundant piece in terms of really smart guy, elite shot and hockey IQ, but an average athlete. I think both guys can overcome it, but I would rather not have both guys in the same top 6, but with the Saginaw connections I would not be surprised to hear his name at all. I do think Zadina's skating is getting better though so that is a good sign in terms of the guy we already have.

 

[Frk It]

Perfetti is a guy I don't really want at 4 anymore. I mean they will have a good book on him, but I don't really like his skating tools enough with what else is an option there. With Zadina already in the fold, I think he is kind of a redundant piece in terms of really smart guy, elite shot and hockey IQ, but an average athlete. I think both guys can overcome it, but I would rather not have both guys in the same top 6, but with the Saginaw connections I would not be surprised to hear his name at all. I do think Zadina's skating is getting better though so that is a good sign in terms of the guy we already have.

He is my #6 guy, so I get where you’re coming from. I’ve had similar concerns with the skating. But people I trust who follow the OHL said he might have the best hockey sense of anyone in this draft and he elevates whoever he plays with. That coupled with his production and elite release make him a guy I have to put among the other top players out there.

 

[ThePuckStopsHere]

I wouldn’t sleep on Rossi at 4. Worst case scenario is Laf/Byfield/Stutzle are gone. I think Rossi could be special and he has more upside than Drysdale in my eyes. They’re guaranteed to get one of the 5 I mentioned.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Honestly, higher than I thought we'd be considering Zadina and Hronek weren''t included.

 

[Frk It]

I wouldn’t sleep on Rossi at 4. Worst case scenario is Laf/Byfield/Stutzle are gone. I think Rossi could be special and he has more upside than Drysdale in my eyes. They’re guaranteed to get one of the 5 I mentioned.

Rossi is the real wildcard in this draft for me, I still don't know what to think of him.

 

[newfy]

Rossi is the real wildcard in this draft for me, I still don't know what to think of him.

Agreed. I could see a team taking him as high as 4th or as low as like 10th. Hard to think what teams will think about a guy like him. Hes smaller and not a great skater but hes as productive as anyone. No idea what hell be like in the NHL at all.

Just hope for a top 3 pick and then the decision should be easy