Windsor Spitfires 2021 Offseason Thread

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member 71782

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Sorry man, I read a few posts about the potential lineup for next year by legend and I thought we might be done crying about ownership and finally moved on to actual useful discussions. I got excited about the team for a minute. My mistake, carry on with the complain fest. I don't want to stand in the way of something that clearly needs to be said 500 different ways so the same 5 people who agree with it can pat themselves on the back for how right it must be. Go ahead, somebody was saying ownership is cheap? Tell me more, and use as many words as possible to do it please. I read every one of them I assure you.

Actually if you go back a few pages you'll find most on here have been giving credit over a lot of the new kids that have been drafted. Many if not all think Bowler has done a good job, at least on paper with these last two draft classes. Some have questions about certain vets, some have differing opinions on upgrades if this team wants to contend but if opinions like those are automatically negative it appears we have another poster who's simply looking for reasons to complain about posters they disagree with.

You liked Legend's post about a potential roster, that's great. I can appreciate what he posted, disagree with certain aspects and it starts a conversation and not an argument.

There's posters that always argue, sometimes for the sake of argument for various reasons and others that have strong opinions one way or another and stand by them with solid reasons to back their positions.

I see your a new poster, hope you join in the conversation but if you're just going to have a single minded view with goal of starting arguments with posters you disagree with I'm sure you'll find that with no problem at all.

Obviously you chose to make me your first target, reminds me of another poster, that's fine, I enjoy it when that happens. You want debate and discussion you'll find that as well.

If you're only looking to rip on others with nothing substantive in your posts you'll find takers that'll reply.

Either way new posters are always welcome, if nothing else if they're the way you've started out it's a new poster to start new arguments.
 

Teflon

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Jan 6, 2018
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Sorry man, I read a few posts about the potential lineup for next year by legend and I thought we might be done crying about ownership and finally moved on to actual useful discussions. I got excited about the team for a minute. My mistake, carry on with the complain fest. I don't want to stand in the way of something that clearly needs to be said 500 different ways so the same 5 people who agree with it can pat themselves on the back for how right it must be. Go ahead, somebody was saying ownership is cheap? Tell me more, and use as many words as possible to do it please. I read every one of them I assure you.
Ah so your ok with the way this ownership is running the team? That’s your prerogative I’m glad you have an opinion. It’s folks like you that will buy season tics. My opinion is different, I value an ownership that respects the game, it’s players and fans. If your going to own a jr team it’s not to make money let’s be clear. If you’ve read previous posts as you say you know my take, but that’s my opinion. I don’t like the way the teams being run and I’ll call that out. It’s odd you go way back and call out a guy like Maxner, he may not have been the most successful coach (pretty good tho), but that man had passion for the game and never wavered from his goals. You have an opinion that’s cool, but no need to be an ass to others with different ideas. That’s is unless you choose to just be that way??
 
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RayzorIsDull

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This all started with merely the discussion of when a coach will be named. It shouldn't be that difficult of a choice if it's between Wellwood and Smith. Wellwood checks all the boxes, Smith has coached 4 games or so in his OHL career. If there are other OHL coaches with terrific credentials and interested then yes they should be considered.

Unfortunately this goes back to the confidence people have in ownership and they haven't done much to date for fans to be confident in them. Wanting to sell the franchise to the dentist which fell through tells us more about the current ownership than the dentist. To date ownership hasn't built up goodwill for them to get the benefit of the doubt.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Without hosting in 2017 that coach that got you a championship would have gotten you nothing except that first round collapse so coaching gets not because of one issue but multiple issues. That championship doesn't happen without the hosting and the 44 day intervention by anyone they could bring in to help the coaches and players.

You want players on the ice? Great. So do all the "keyboard warriors" such as myself as it seems you're alluding to. To get those players, assuming you're talking talented players who can be developed to reach their potential and have a shot at a championship you need an ownership that will invest and a coach and staff capable of developing the players and running the bench.

If your only concern is seeing players on the ice, go watch any level of hockey. If you want to watch a good team that can be competitive and contend for titles that all begins off ice with an ownership group that invests in the team, staff and organization. So far this ownership group doesn't seem to have done much of that. Having cut most of the scouting staff and who knows what else.

As for what they're having for dinner? Who cares. My only concern about the owners is what they do to put the best possible product on the ice and that starts with how they run the organization, who is brought in to manage, who scouts the talent and finally who develops and coaches them. If just icing a team is all people want, guess what, you've already got that and I would guess regardless of results you'll be thrilled. Good for you. Unlike you most want to see a winning product not just a group of players skating around. Whether it's me or others who agree or disagree with me and others that is one of the things most on here have in common.

Enjoy a substandard product if you like but I'll critique when it's substandard as well as give credit when it's good. I've had a lot more criticism the last 10 years than praise not because I want to find fault with everything but because there's been a lot more that's been handled poorly than right.

Have a good one.

Very well said. People can still have their opinions that won't change. We can only judge ownership on what has happened to date and it's not exactly flattering. I am not sure why the idea that unknown people hate this board is relevant to anything. That's like a vegan talking about how they don't like people eating turkey or fish. Why does that matter?? You're not participating at all so who cares.

When fans invest their time and money into a product from their discretionary income there should be an expectation that the organization is doing their best to put the best possible product on the ice. The 3 Memorial Cups with Boughner/Rychel are terrific accomplishments but that's irrelevant now. It's new owners/new scouts/new management/new coaches and they need to prove themselves just like the first iteration. One of the first steps is to get a new coach and some may come out because of who the coach is. The new coach is going to have to prove himself beyond anything else.

If you are starving for the game after 17 months and don't care about results go watch atom or bantam games where they are playing to develop their skills and love of the game.
 

OHLTG

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Nov 18, 2008
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I feel for the new coaches; anything short of near glory is going to be frowned upon. On one hand, it's understandable, but on another hand......

LOL that's what all of this reminds me of... the Ghostbusters II quote: "Being miserable and treating everyone like dirt is every New Yorker's God-given right."

 

windsor7

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Nov 29, 2015
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I feel for the new coaches; anything short of near glory is going to be frowned upon. On one hand, it's understandable, but on another hand......

LOL that's what all of this reminds me of... the Ghostbusters II quote: "Being miserable and treating everyone like dirt is every New Yorker's God-given right."

However as long as their hockey we should all be happy no matter the product...
 

member 71782

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I feel for the new coaches; anything short of near glory is going to be frowned upon. On one hand, it's understandable, but on another hand......

LOL that's what all of this reminds me of... the Ghostbusters II quote: "Being miserable and treating everyone like dirt is every New Yorker's God-given right."

Why would you feel for them?

Fans can and should have expectations of every facet of a team. Those expectations need to be realistic and fitting of the situation but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be high based on the situation.

Most here want Wellwood but that doesn't mean he should get a free pass. If he has the support of management and the players for success and he can't put it together he should face criticism for the job he does.

At the same time if he lacks support or talent and he gets the job done above what should be expected then regardless of how the team finishes he should be applauded while criticism is directed elsewhere.

No one deserves a free pass and when you're talking about the coaches and managers at this level, paid for the job then like any other professional they need to be judged accordingly.

Wellwood, Smith or any other potential candidate will bring a response based on their previous body of work then ultimately judged by the fans based on what they do in the role.

A bad hiring choice, in the eyes of the fans should see Bowler/Savages criticized for the choice they make while they should also expect the coach to prove them wrong.
 
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OHLTG

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Why do I feel for them? If they do well, it'll be "about time!!" and/or "great, but can you do it again??" If they struggle, it's "here we go again!!" They'll be in a bit of a "no-win" situation, at least on here. Frankly, I hope anyone who comes in ends up rocking it and smiles as critics continue to question.
 

Cherrydon

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Jan 4, 2019
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Just once I want this ownership to show on paper they are committed for the long haul or move on. Hire a coach and commit that losing is not acceptable. 8 years losing 1st round/missing the playoffs is not acceptable to them or the fans. The Knights (nemesis) won 3 championships over the same timeframe with worse draft selection positions annually. It starts from the top bottom line. Don't tie Bowlers hands, let him truly manage with a blank check. I believe he has the goods.
 
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member 71782

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I don't think so.

As I said, every level of the organization should be judged based on results and the resources they have to get those results.

If Smith or another unknown/inexperienced person is hired then many fans will be disappointed with the organizational choice. This would lead most fans to a prove it attitude towards Smith and that attitude should apply to anyone else who may be hired including Wellwood. Past results will come into play in terms of how supportive fans are and the level of expectations applied.

Myself, I would have higher expectations of Wellwood than I would of Smith and my criticism when deserved would likely be higher of Wellwood as well whereas with Smith there would be more directed at the organization for the hiring.

How management proceeds in terms of contending or not and how any coach responds with the resources given would also affect any criticism.

If Smith followed the lead of his predecessor and shows he's no different than of course I would be upset with him but that's what he knows so it would be what's expected.

If Wellwood did the same I would be even more upset since he has more experience and has shown he knows how to do things differently.

Each level of the organization affects the next one down, expectations have to based for a coach on the results they get based on what they have to work with. What you're saying with a new coach coming in are things that should be directed at those making the decisions above the coach.

I would be disappointed if they hire Smith but if he comes in and rewards players based on merit, can show development progress in the kids, keeps the room together and gets results equal to or above what he has to work with than as a rookie head coach he will have done fine. If you bring in Wellwood in the same situation he should be expected to exceed what would be acceptable results for Smith.

Everything else is on management to put either one in a position to succeed.
 
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OHLTG

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I was asked why I feel for them so I gave the reason. I don't care about debating, nor do I care if people disagree. That's not my issue. I'm sure there will be more than enough debates this season because of small things to worry about this one.
 
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Teflon

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I’d like a coach who has a decent track record, not a rookie, not a has been. That will show me the ownership cares. What said coach does with the team is different again. I’d like to see a hard working, tough to play against team that plays at least up to par, frankly better then that, but let’s start there. Coaching decisions that make sense will go a long way. I for one am not insisting on instant success, but let’s see the proper decisions and groundwork for possible championships. Let’s see an ownership that’s committed to doing right by players, parents the city and its fans. Don’t think that’s to much to ask!
 
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RayzorIsDull

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I don't think so.

As I said, every level of the organization should be judged based on results and the resources they have to get those results.

If Smith or another unknown/inexperienced person is hired then many fans will be disappointed with the organizational choice. This would lead most fans to a prove it attitude towards Smith and that attitude should apply to anyone else who may be hired including Wellwood. Past results will come into play in terms of how supportive fans are and the level of expectations applied.

Myself, I would have higher expectations of Wellwood than I would of Smith and my criticism when deserved would likely be higher of Wellwood as well whereas with Smith there would be more directed at the organization for the hiring.

How management proceeds in terms of contending or not and how any coach responds with the resources given would also affect any criticism.

If Smith followed the lead of his predecessor and shows he's no different than of course I would be upset with him but that's what he knows so it would be what's expected.

If Wellwood did the same I would be even more upset since he has more experience and has shown he knows how to do things differently.

Each level of the organization affects the next one down, expectations have to based for a coach on the results they get based on what they have to work with. What you're saying with a new coach coming in are things that should be directed at those making the decisions above the coach.

I would be disappointed if they hire Smith but if he comes in and rewards players based on merit, can show development progress in the kids, keeps the room together and gets results equal to or above what he has to work with than as a rookie head coach he will have done fine. If you bring in Wellwood in the same situation he should be expected to exceed what would be acceptable results for Smith.

Everything else is on management to put either one in a position to succeed.

I don't see why people would feel bad for the coach. Whoever this person is he holds 1 of 60 CHL coaching jobs. They decided on going into this profession and make the most out of it. The expectation is for the position.

Nobody knows who the new coach will be or what he will do but as with everything the coach can only do so much and unless he has say in personnel it's up to the GM to give him the proper players.

Yes I would expect more of Wellwood as compared to Smith and that has everything to do with their body of work. Smith has been tagging along as assistant with this organization for some time. If Smith was the coach and panned out that would be great.

With the prior coach he did enough to be noticed and get a promotion. I don't necessarily believe that fans here should be thinking he did a good job. You can still get a promotion and not necessarily have a lot of success with the team. The two can be mutually exclusive.
 

stips

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Considering Smith to coach, think of his previous. body of work, as special teams coach!
 

hockeylegend11

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Considering Smith to coach, think of his previous. body of work, as special teams coach!

Smith was in charge of the forwards and the PP,Mike Weber in charge of the D and the PK.
For the season that was shortened to 62 games Windsor finished 5th o/a for the PP,24.4 % efficiency,the year before Windsor was 17th on the PP with an 18% PP efficiency huge improvement, PK another story,in the shortened season finished at 18th oa,whereas the year before they finished 7th oa on the PK,though something tells me having Dipietro for the 1st 30 games of the season of that year helped the PK alot,when he left team dropped considerably.
As for goals for Windsor in the shortened season finished with 256 goals for an average of 4.12,the season before finished with 216 for average of 3.17 almost a goal more per game.
Not sure what you mean about Smith's work as assistant coach,the numbers dont support your stance.
 
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hockeylegend11

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I’d like a coach who has a decent track record, not a rookie, not a has been. That will show me the ownership cares. What said coach does with the team is different again. I’d like to see a hard working, tough to play against team that plays at least up to par, frankly better then that, but let’s start there. Coaching decisions that make sense will go a long way. I for one am not insisting on instant success, but let’s see the proper decisions and groundwork for possible championships. Let’s see an ownership that’s committed to doing right by players, parents the city and its fans. Don’t think that’s to much to ask!

Should note and I didn't know till I looked it up,Rocky Thompson before hired had no head coaching experience,he spend one year as assistant coach in Edmonton NHL and 4 years as assistant coach in Oklahoma City of the AHL and things
worked out here pretty good here,winning a Mem Cup
Nobody here thought Windsor would go outside the province for a new head coach
Just saying,though not promoting the same thing to happen again
I never discount a championship,league or national.
 

windsor7

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Nov 29, 2015
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Should note and I didn't know till I looked it up,Rocky Thompson before hired had no head coaching experience,he spend one year as assistant coach in Edmonton NHL and 4 years as assistant coach in Oklahoma City of the AHL and things
worked out here pretty good here,winning a Mem Cup
Nobody here thought Windsor would go outside the province for a new head coach
Just saying,though not promoting the same thing to happen again
I never discount a championship,league or national.

As stated before.
If they didnt host then they would of been done 1st round.
 

windsor7

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Nov 29, 2015
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Smith was in charge of the forwards and the PP,Mike Weber in charge of the D and the PK.
For the season that was shortened to 62 games Windsor finished 5th o/a for the PP,24.4 % efficiency,the year before Windsor was 17th on the PP with an 18% PP efficiency huge improvement, PK another story,in the shortened season finished at 18th oa,whereas the year before they finished 7th oa on the PK,though something tells me having Dipietro for the 1st 30 games of the season of that year helped the PK alot,when he left team dropped considerably.
As for goals for Windsor in the shortened season finished with 256 goals for an average of 4.12,the season before finished with 216 for average of 3.17 almost a goal more per game.
Not sure what you mean about Smith's work as assistant coach,the numbers dont support your stance.

Yet they didnt win any playoff series.
Hopefully that changes this year though. Will c who the coach is.
 

hockeylegend11

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As stated before.
If they didnt host then they would of been done 1st round.
As stated before I see no asterisk on any site league or otherwise
I remember one other team who got knocked out
in 1st round,a couple years before a team from OHL and got blitzed 14-4 in total for the 3 games and lost but they hosted. (London)
Windsor got healthy and lapped the field and deserved to win.
 
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hockeylegend11

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Yet they didnt win any playoff series.
Hopefully that changes this year though. Will c who the coach is.

Well I might decide to be like you for the coming season
Who ever the coach is I will blame him every time we lose a game and say nothing about improvements team or players make
because you never did
No reason not to
Negativity will rule,it has for far too long why change
 

windsor7

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Nov 29, 2015
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As stated before I see no asterisk on any site league or otherwise
I remember one other team who got knocked out
in 1st round,a couple years before a team from OHL and got blitzed 14-4 in total for the 3 games and lost but they hosted. (London)
Windsor got healthy and lapped the field and deserved to win.

Yes getting knocked out early happens.
Without host. No progress further that year.
 

windsor7

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Nov 29, 2015
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Well I might decide to be like you for the coming season
Who ever the coach is I will blame him every time we lose a game and say nothing about improvements team or players make
because you never did
No reason not to
Negativity will rule,it has for far too long why change

They improved where in playoffs?
I would like to see them win at least 1 round. However that hasnt happened in a long time.
They r bound to win sometime.
Bring in a good coach. New ideas needed.
 
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