Windsor Spitfires 2020 Offseason Thread
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OHLTG
Registered User
Honestly, this is such a tiresome debate. Next year should be the year to make a run. You lose a few players, but you gain a few. Once you lose Angle, Douglas, Afanasyev, Corcoran, etc for GOOD, then the next cycle starts. You can agree. You can disagree. It doesn't matter to me. I was pointing out that replacing three (3) player does not constitute a rebuild as it happens often in junior hockey. If you wish to disagree, that's up to you. I don't really care anymore. I think we're on round 50 of this debate. What's the point?
aresknights
Registered User
Its a tough argument when the team hasn't won a single playoff rd in almost 10 years and the year they won the National title they were eliminated rd 1 ( something you extremely criticized London as a host pre tourney for losing in rd 2.)
Your posts are public, so not sure ya wanna refute esp since you hid under a rock for a month after they lost in Spits host year until the Spits starting winning on home ice in the Cup with the freebie invite. But of course the goalposts changed lol. Its all public what your thoughts were in both cases. But somehow a much different thought process. Hhhmmmmm?
Serious question I doubt you will answer. But if you are fair n balanced you will.....
Who in the OHL has gone longer without a playoff round win than Windsor?
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aresknights
Registered User
I think the point is they haven't challenged for a Western Conf championship or OHL title in nearly 10 years.
Hard to sugar coat that.
Ill ask you the same question as HL and hope 1 will answer.
Who in the OHL has a longer streak of not winning a single playoff round?
OHLTG
Registered User
Did I sugarcoat anything? I don't think so. We all want to contend. But this talk of "rebuild" seems very odd and almost unnecessary right now.
As for the streak - I'd have to look it up but I think we're pretty close.
A couple of those teams are still looking pretty good going into next year and with a team like Saginaw taking Fantilli, if he won't report there but will report elsewhere now or next year they just restocked their cupboard and still have a deeper roster than Windsor.
London has loads of kids in their system that will add to their stockpile of picks as well as still have a roster that will be better than Windsor.
Kitchener will likely take a step back.
Flint could go either way. They should take a step back but they're not in horrible shape.
Guelph is looking just as good as Windsor at this point.
Soo is bidding so they will be building to go all in. They need to do some work but they've pretty consistent the last five or six years now with last year being an exception.
Owen Sound is coming together. Will they catch up to Windsor? Remains to be seen.
Sarnia and Erie are the odd ones out. Erie has struggled through the last three years and likely going to continue to this year while Sarnia is a couple of years away.
Windsor, if everything goes perfect will have a solid roster to start with but lacks the assets to add in a meaningful way in a hosting year. I can see another fifth place finish coming simply because they won't have the ability to add, just like this year.
Just a heads up, in the last ten years Windsor has one Memorial Cup, 2016/17. To get more than one you need to go back eleven years and to get more than two you need to go back twelve years. 2011 - 2020 is ten years now, one in a decade and there's eight other teams that have as many as them in the last decade with no one getting one this year.
OHLTG
Registered User
I'm looking now...
Sarnia has made 2nd round twice since 2003-04, last one being 2017-18.
Mississauga made finals in 2016-17, but otherwise out in first round since 2012-13
In terms of pure streak, Windsor is probably the top. In terms of overall futility, I'd take Windsor's record over Sarnia's any day.
Sarnia has made 2nd round twice since 2003-04, last one being 2017-18.
Mississauga made finals in 2016-17, but otherwise out in first round since 2012-13
In terms of pure streak, Windsor is probably the top. In terms of overall futility, I'd take Windsor's record over Sarnia's any day.
Cfaub
Because of no winner this year I didn't count this year re championships for Windsor or anybody else.
Assuming Windsor loses only Rafkin,I would match up Windsor lineup against anyone in the West
London loses Merkley, Phillip's,Regula,Foudy,Gruden,Wilm,
their o/a tender, and possibly McMichael,which would put them out of the mix.
Obviously losing Corcoran, Douglas and Afanaseyev changes my view completely.
Why do you always come to the defense of the most negative poster on this board.
Must admit people who mostly read this forum but rarely post ask me that all the time,why does that London poster stir up trouble.
I dont have an answer for that or the one that you asked me.
I will go with what OHLTG wrote,mainly because I could care less,people dont remember who comes in 2nd only who wins.
As for London in 2014,I did say they didnt have enough to win and they didnt do enough to give them the chance when they hosted,and I was proven right,correct me if I am wrong, they lost 4 straight in the tourney and were outscored 14-4 in the process.
Windsor won 4 straight and proved they belonged.
And they got there how?
Would of been a lot better if they won in the playoffs.
The whole point is they don't have the assets to contend this year or anytime in the coming years. If things go perfect for them, everyone returns that we all hope will they still need to add a couple of high end pieces to what they have and with it being a contending year that will be more expensive than usual.
They're probably a Kaliyev, Harley, top tier goaltender and a couple of role players away from being a contender if they don't lose any of their 02s, except maybe Maggio. Do you think 5x 2nds, 3x 3rds and 5x 4ths will get you three top tier players and a couple of very good role players while keeping most of the roster intact?
Right now they're replacing at least seven players.
Three OAs that graduated, two that would have been OAs and two imports from last year's roster. Do you believe a couple of rookies can fill those spots and this team not miss a beat?
Playfair and Rupoli were role players, a couple of rookies can fill those spots.
The three OAs, whether anyone agrees or not on how they were used all played prominent roles. Do you think three more rookies will fill those spots?
Two imports gone with hopefully two more coming in and imports can be a crapshoot and as we've seen with Windsor we've had some pretty bad import situations since Sergachev graduated and you think a rookie GM is going to get it done by bringing in potentially a couple of rookie imports?
If we wait for those three to graduate then call it a new cycle, great, this one ends with no success again most likely so it was simply asking will this be a continuation of a rebuild or starting another with this one ending without success again. This conversation will always come up when this team keeps spinning it's wheels accomplishing next to nothing for ten years with one Memorial Cup and one conference final in that time frame.
Last time people called it an extended rebuild and others said it was two separate rebuilds so people are asking again which one it is because if I say its extended someone will say its a second one. If I say its a second one someone will say the first one isn't done yet. The same flip flopping on the definition from people who disagree with myself and others whenever we call it one or the other.
They have two of the last ten awarded but the calendar doesn't stop moving and had this year played out someone else may have taken their second in ten years.
You will always have three in nine years though but the relevance of it is disappearing as time goes on.
London will likely lose all those players but they have a line up that will still match up close to Windsor's, have a lot more expendable youth that will return more assets than Windsor does which keeps them as it almost always does in a position to compete with anyone.
Windsor has a decent roster IF everyone returns but you know as well as anyone that with all the rumours floating around that there has to be something to some of them and all those rumours invole players that were supposed to be key pieces to any success this team would have this year and beyond. Will they all come to be? Very doubtful but if only a couple do and throw in that likely at least one of Corcoran or Douglas graduates and the potential for an already signed Afanasyev to move on is probably better than 50/50, especially since one of the rumours were about him as well than this roster gets depleted really quickly.
Like in my last response to OHLTG
Rupoli and Playfair, easily replaceable with a couple of rookies.
Three graduated OAs that played prominent roles need to be replaced. Three more rookies isn't going to cut it.
Two imports replaced by two more rookie imports with Windsor's recent history with imports and a GM who hasn't proven anything yet isn't reassuring.
If Corcoran or Douglas don't return and I think at least one doesn't that creates a big hole. We agree there.
If Afanasyev doesn't and I doubt he will return to Windsor. Even if he returns to the league if there's anything to the rumours it would not be to Windsor.
Losing one of those three changes everything, two and this team is taking a major step back. All three, especially if they get nothing for them sets them back a few years because they don't have assets to make acquisitions that will get them in contention.
It's not about the roster alone, it's about the assets to support the roster and in a hosting year Windsor could use a few more high end assets or expendable players, neither of which they are overflowing with. Yes, if everything goes their way they have a very good roster that battles for home ice but won't get beyond the second round since they don't have the assets to support a run. Seven roster spots to fill that were filled last year. Three OAs, that's part of the game but four more with only rookies to fill them? That's not a recipe for success.
OHLTG
Registered User
Three OAs can be replaced by this year's draft, the other two that would have been OAs are replaced by FAs or past draftees, and the two imports are replaced via the Import Draft. Yes, I believe they can continue without missing a beat.
IF they have Douglas, Corcoran, Angle, and Afanasyev, this is the season to do something. That might mean Bowler spends a bit more to get what's necessary but that happens. If the majority, or all, don't return, then that's a different story.
Sorry, I don't believe it's as bad of a situation as people want to think it is. I know we could go around and around and around some more; that's borderline normal for here. After what we saw in the first half, I'm a firm believer that the talent is there. They just need the right systems and their own confidence back. That comes together and they currently have a roster that could surprise.
Like I said, you're replacing seven roster players with seven rookies.
If everything works out perfectly they will still have a good team, have said that all along but have also said they don't have the assets to support a run which is pretty obvious to anyone who looks at the assets they have.
Past draftees would be great, if they show up and the last couple of drafts they haven't been getting many of them to show up, at least not the ones who would make an impact.
If one or two players like Corcoran, Douglas of Afanasyev don't return, that'll change everything.
If one or two of the four or five rumours about players wanting out come to be that's an even bigger problem since they were all expected to be contributors this year and beyond.
Seven rookies replacing seven vets and they won't miss a beat? That's extremely optomistic, especially when everyone around us will lose similar numbers, still retain in many cases better talent and have more assets than us. Will they miss a beat or just Windsor that won't?
OHLTG
Registered User
Again... I don't believe this is as dire as some want to think. Disagree? Cool. It happens. This summer is going to be unlike anything we've seen so predicting who goes where or what happens... not worth it right now.
So out of a few of those things why would players want out?? You love the rumor game. You love to give sources and even when it doesn't pan out you still say it came from somewhere. I would put a lot of money on between a couple players only meetings this year, people here saying players don't particularly like Letowski. It's not a far stretch to think that some players may want out due to the coach.
OHLTG
Registered User
I wouldn't rule out the coaching, either.
You say I "love the rumour game... love to give sources." No. If I hear something that I can share, I do so. Sometimes it pans out. Other times it doesn't. That's normal and out of my control. I've seen times where it was a virtual lock and did a 180. Do you complain when NHL people say they've heard something and it doesn't pan out? Probably not because it's part of sports. Trust me, telling false info isn't my thing and never has been.
You say I "love the rumour game... love to give sources." No. If I hear something that I can share, I do so. Sometimes it pans out. Other times it doesn't. That's normal and out of my control. I've seen times where it was a virtual lock and did a 180. Do you complain when NHL people say they've heard something and it doesn't pan out? Probably not because it's part of sports. Trust me, telling false info isn't my thing and never has been.
So people that don't post here ask you questions about someone on this board that you can't answer?? What's the point of that???
It's cute to rationalize the failures of an organization and chalk it up how 19 other teams didn't win a championship that year. Of course you're the same one that has stated the organization is losing money and this is why they have been operating differently than prior years. If that's the model they aren't going to be having success in the short term or long term moving forward.
Bringing in FA and past picks who couldnt crack a thin lineup isn't how you build a contender. There's not much in the organization waiting in the wings, a Stevenson 2.0 or a Sirman 2.0 isn't going to solidify a contender. The 2 2nd's for Maggio really hurt as well.
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