Windsor Spitfires 2018 Offseason Thread

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Cfaub

Firstly thanks for answering my question and 1st response was what I was looking for.
As for your question to me,now that we are out of sanction,I prefer to look ahead not behind,and yes the sanctions did hurt,and that's not a crutch answer,losing 2-1sts and 2-2nds is significant, despite that Windsor still won a Mem Cup while under sanctions,and Rychel had to work around it,toss in losing a player early Christian Fischer, more deals had to be made to make up losing a 90 point guy,in particular Jeremy Bracco which cost more assets.
You may not like Rychel's win at any cost theme,but all 3 times he has done it he has won,he makes big deals,loses players all 3 times early,no other team in the O has experienced that 3 times or won under sanctions, no matter the cost I support that would rather win then not, he also when recognizing the chances of winning is not there,he deals of as in cases with Neuvirth,Shugg,Cantin, Gruebauer,or Ebert and his son Kerby,and this past season when he moved out everybody but Dipietro.
I think like others that they are the right track, finally had a full draft board,trades last year were good ones,there is more depth in the organization at all spots.
Coaching staff is solid, scouting is solid too.
When it comes time to go all in Warren will have my support.
Only part I am surprised that is you would still think London is still the team to emulate after the evidence I gave for the last 5 years,their Mem Cup success not withstanding,I don't agree they reload instead of rebuild mantra that some espouse.
Toss in last year's drafts as well despite Windsor not having a full board compared to London surprised you didn't comment on that.
Overwise all good

HL

I know we look at things from a different perspective as well as situations among other things and that's not an issue.

When looking back to the beginning of this organization culminating in the first two Mem Cups I liked the track the organisation was on. I disagree it was a win at all costs situation but I do think and agree Windsor was willing to do what it took to win. They still had assets in the bank, they still had prospects to bring in etc. They did it right and were set up to do what others have done since, particularly more recently.

2011 through a wrench into things in my opinion. Losing out on the hosting, I think they were screwed because had they been the hosts that year they were in a position to add what was needed, it may have had a small affect on possibly Fowler returning, Cantin/Shugg don't likely get moved etc. Not getting the hosting gig and messing up the draft surrounding Kerby I would have bet Rychel was prepared to sell. It would have been the right move but as the season played out without major moves, some small ones throughout the season the team over achieved a bit and Rychel had to make a choice, buy or sell and I realize all speculation was his hands were tied in terms of deadline deals. While he had the assets, probably not as much as he would have liked he finally made some additions, not enough, did things half way and let the chips fall where they might. That was his first mistake of many the next 6 years or so. If his hands were tied he should have stood pat, not added and play things out. They had a good shot at getting to the third round as they were so adding didn't make a difference. Even if they only made it to the second round they would have held onto a few more assets and could have retooled moreso then need to go into a rebuild. With fewer assets and Kerby in the line up though he tried to retool. He moved big names, got good returns but then moved out most assets on a number of players who weren't what they were expected to be. Had he held the assets in 2011 and the next two seasons he acquired as he moved bigger names out the result would have been similar, make the playoffs, out in the first round or maybe miss them once but he would have had full cupboards, he would have had a clearer view of his own prospects and been in a better position to deal after the 2012 and 2013 seasons and likely been in a position to keep Kerby and ice a team that could have challenged when he and Ebert were instead dealt.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but while the moves out were good ones, the moves in were questionable.

2011 was what it was but 2012 and 2013 were the years that really hurt and the team never really recovered until 2017 again, at an extremely high price.

Early graduation can affect things but any good team has to deal with it because consistently bad teams aren't developing players ready to graduate early. Some players will excel or standout no matter what but many highly thought of prospects have languished in bad systems. So if Windsor isn't graduating players early, and most of that time frame they weren't I would be more concerned than if they did.

This past season and the possibilities of this upcoming season have this team and the way Rychel is handling things looking closer to the first two years they had the team then the last six or seven, that's a good thing. With the hosting gone there is no need to make panic moves to load up almost an entire top six for the tournament. He has the time to make calculated moves, keep stocking up assets, bring players back in trades instead of going for broke moving newly acquired assets on the next big name. This season, even if they move DiPietro, Boka and Purboo I still expect them to finish in at least 6th. They had a young roster most of the year and even though they were a bit slow in handing over the reigns they did accelerate things after the deadline instead relying too much on the remaining vets/older players. Those kids now need to take over, prove their value and become leaders because this season the team should still finish younger than they start the season but it should be youth with experience with something to prove.

Rychel needs to get a scoring top six forward but that needs to come preferably in a deal that includes an outgoing player, not a stand alone deal where he moves a lot of assets that he just acquires in another deal. The worst thing he could do though is move DiPietro before the season starts and then move most of those or similar assets to get a defected player, he's still leaving himself short on assets in the short and/or mid term. He may need to move a couple of assets in any deal if he doesn't return a 16/17 year old scoring forward (obviously dependent on when he moves him) in a DiPietro deal but it needs to be a mix of picks and an older player so he can minimize depleting future picks.

Yes his drafting is getting better, back to what it was. Having more picks helps and is a definite advantage. Keep going the way they appear to be and I think a lot of the "negative" will calm down. Like others have said, I want to see a team that can become a regular threat to do something every year. Consistently good. It does not mean there won't be down years, there will always be down years related to a variety of factors and issues. Players graduate early, it can affect things but it can also be a positive as high end players deciding if they will report see that their chances of better development could give them a similar opportunity.

Winning championships will attract players but losing records will almost certainly affect decisions as well. A lot of these high end kids aren't used to losing so the idea of going to a team that only gives itself a chance to win every four or five years can't be appealing. Sure kids who have reported may not see the missing playoffs or poor performance as an issue right after winning a Memorial Cup but Windsor hasn't attracted a lot of high end flyers for a number of years, I'm sure their record has some influence on those decisions and I'm sure if they never ever report to a camp they're not likely going to be expressing an opinion about it.

I like Rychel's competitive nature, I don't like his lack of self control. I've said it in the past, he's like a kid in a candy store when he has a few extra draft picks laying around he can't wait to spend them. He needs to take the time to do what he does best. Evaluate the talent you have, move out what makes sense to do so then re evaluate before running out the door to move the new picks. In 2012 and 2013 he spent picks as fast as they came in. Sit on them for a couple of months, see what the remaining roster and possible call ups do. If it makes sense to add, do so, but if doesn't provide an immediate benefit then let the season play out and revisit in the off season.
 

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Spits have won the Memorial Cup 3 times.
Sanctions are finished.
Hosting and winning the Memorial Cup is over and done with.
I personally just want to look at the present Spits and cheer for them and dream on what might happen in the future. We can rehash the past forever but it really just starts to sound like a bunch of Leaf fans.

Speaking of the future I am not sold that they have anywhere near a core of players that will be anymore than above average to good in the next 2 years. I'm looking for some big leaps from some players before I will be convinced we will be contending in 2 years. We will have a very good team but not a contender. Here lies the fear - does Warren start the "buy at any cost" again to be a contender in 2 years. This is the cycle of hockey I don't want to see. I would rather we cycle up to an almost good team, play the year out and then with lots of assets retool again. I think if we can hold out for the long haul we will be better off for it. I realize that this is not the way most want to see it done but the buy and sell, peaks and valley's are too inconsistent for me.

Agree with your entire post but particularly the bolded.

This is what 2012 and 2013 seasons represented for me. He kept searching and spending on the next big, young player available and most of them were misses. He needs to be aggressive moving players out but be patient when considering bringing in players in deals that are centred around picks.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Wow lots to digest CFaub hit it out of the park though. I can see why London would be a franchise to emulate. They pack their arena night after night, have a very good product year to year, every few years they win an OHL title to validate what their blueprint is. People can talk about sanctions but that doesn't preclude a franchise from still having a good productive. I can prove to be difficult to win a title obviously but that doesn't mean you can't have a very good roster. Your best players should be your 1st rounder but it just means without a 1st rounder if you hit on your 2-3-4-5 you should be fine. It doesn't give the Spits much room for error but that's their punishment. Fans may not like it but if you didn't play be the rules outlined by the OHL then you should be punished.

We still don't know what the plan is moving forwards in regards to whether or not the franchise is aiming to be good year after year or when the time comes Warren goes for it blows his brains out and wants to rebuild again. For a guy who criticized the fans at the end of the year, the steady decline of attendance 1000 fewer sth from 2011-2012 to what it is now. Warren would probably be better off since they are starving for playoff success and playoff gate to actually strive to be good year after year.

I would also say CFaub is looking at it from the consumer point of view which is refreshing to see. I can see how certain people wouldn't care about that either based on preference or based upon the fact they haven't had to pay for a ticket.
 
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member 71782

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Wow lots to digest CFaub hit it out of the park though. I can see why London would be a franchise to emulate. They pack their arena night after night, have a very good product year to year, every few years they win an OHL title to validate what their blueprint is. People can talk about sanctions but that doesn't preclude a franchise from still having a good productive. I can prove to be difficult to win a title obviously but that doesn't mean you can't have a very good roster. Your best players should be your 1st rounder but it just means without a 1st rounder if you hit on your 2-3-4-5 you should be fine. It doesn't give the Spits much room for error but that's their punishment. Fans may not like it but if you didn't play be the rules outlined by the OHL then you should be punished.

We still don't know what the plan is moving forwards in regards to whether or not the franchise is aiming to be good year after year or when the time comes Warren goes for it blows his brains out and wants to rebuild again. For a guy who criticized the fans at the end of the year, the steady decline of attendance 1000 fewer sth from 2011-2012 to what it is now. Warren would probably be better off since they are starving for playoff success and playoff gate to actually strive to be good year after year.

I would also say CFaub is looking at it from the consumer point of view which is refreshing to see. I can see how certain people wouldn't care about that either based on preference or based upon the fact they haven't had to pay for a ticket.

Looking at it from the perspective of a fan creates certain expectations, as a consumer another and from a business perspective yet another. With the situation I grew up in, as a fan, being a consumer of this or other products centred around entertainment and having a family involved with a number of businesses that revolved around meeting customer expectations in an entertainment type of experience I probably have a unique perspective which is why I look at things the way I do.
 
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RayzorIsDull

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Looking at it from the perspective of a fan creates certain expectations, as a consumer another and from a business perspective yet another. With the situation I grew up in, as a fan, being a consumer of this or other products centred around entertainment and having a family involved with a number of businesses that revolved around meeting customer expectations in an entertainment type of experience I probably have a unique perspective which is why I look at things the way I do.

I can see that and as you can tell looking at the big drop in sth numbers the guaranteed money isn't where it was some time ago.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Here's something we've never actually figured out. This isn't a pot shot or anything, but an actual question. Not taking into account any outside factors (ie. what other teams are doing), what points total do YOU believe would have to be reached in order to consider themselves a "title contender"?

Being a contender after the deadline should be the target. While being a contender on opening night would be nice, a team with that talent is likely dealing with players at NHL camps. We could say "they're a contender on paper", but we both know how well that flies on here. Most of the time players do return, but, as the Spitfires have seen, it's not always guaranteed. Which is why I say deadline and beyond - players are back from camps, they've settled in, done the WJC, and we're good to go.

Again, you can't look at dealing DiPietro as "another year they moved a great player" because it's all part of the same situation. It has to be looked at as one entity, especially when you're looking at a big picture.

It's not so much a set number of points it's more about winning in the 2nd season. I would say going out and winning 2 playoff series would get you to "title contender" status. You're 4 wins away from playing for an OHL championship. There aren't a lot of teams out there who aren't contenders in November or December and suddenly become contenders after the deadline. In order to be a contender after the deadline you better have the roster and assets before that time.

In regards to DiPietro you can say it's all part of the same situation but the perception would be another real good player being dealt a year after a sell off. So last year they either didn't believe they had the right package to deal DiPietro, he either invoked his ntc, or the franchise had no intention to move him last year and wanted to have a hollow playoff being a top 6 seed and try and scratch out a couple home playoff games. That's not going to get fans out, fans are far too smart to fall for that now.
 
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Teflon

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Truly love how a few still post opinion as fact!! My take is we're here to win championships not have hollow series wins and look good every so often. We're also here to get players to the show. Could WR have done a better job in some areas?? Sure but there isn't a perfect GM out there. The entire sanction issue is a joke!! Branch knows full well many teams are playing with fire he choose to jump on the Spits and after a few drinks many in the ohl heirarchy will admit it!! Does the lack of playoff games hurt the bottom line? Sure it does but that's how the Spits choose to operate, they know the downside. I like the quality of player that comes from windsor, have a look around, see how many Windsor players make the show and also coach at a high level! I'd say the proof this is a quality is validated by those factors. Yes I'm a STH and have been a fan for over 40 years. As for London let's be honest, shenanigans have been their trademark for decades. Do I need to remind anyone of waterboy??? They chirp and their dirty. Nothing's new there.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Truly love how a few still post opinion as fact!! My take is we're here to win championships not have hollow series wins and look good every so often. We're also here to get players to the show. Could WR have done a better job in some areas?? Sure but there isn't a perfect GM out there. The entire sanction issue is a joke!! Branch knows full well many teams are playing with fire he choose to jump on the Spits and after a few drinks many in the ohl heirarchy will admit it!! Does the lack of playoff games hurt the bottom line? Sure it does but that's how the Spits choose to operate, they know the downside. I like the quality of player that comes from windsor, have a look around, see how many Windsor players make the show and also coach at a high level! I'd say the proof this is a quality is validated by those factors. Yes I'm a STH and have been a fan for over 40 years. As for London let's be honest, shenanigans have been their trademark for decades. Do I need to remind anyone of waterboy??? They chirp and their dirty. Nothing's new there.

So you love how people post opinion as fact. Then guarantee the rest of the league hierarchy would admit the sanctions were garbage and also that London has been doing shenanigans for decades. If anything what you said is the definition of irony.
 

OHLTG

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It's not so much a set number of points it's more about winning in the 2nd season. I would say going out and winning 2 playoff series would get you to "title contender" status.

Not necessary, though. A team could have a great regular season and be considered a "title contender", but then have a bad playoffs and they're out. That doesn't take away from their talent, though.

In regards to DiPietro you can say it's all part of the same situation but the perception would be another real good player being dealt a year after a sell off. So last year they either didn't believe they had the right package to deal DiPietro, he either invoked his ntc, or the franchise had no intention to move him last year and wanted to have a hollow playoff being a top 6 seed and try and scratch out a couple home playoff games. That's not going to get fans out, fans are far too smart to fall for that now.

It's still not a different situation, though. It's one rebuild. Hockey fans know how this works.
 
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windsor7

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Not necessary, though. A team could have a great regular season and be considered a "title contender", but then have a bad playoffs and they're out. That doesn't take away from their talent, though.



It's still not a different situation, though. It's one rebuild. Hockey fans know how this works.

R u referencing that we don't know how it works?
 

member 71782

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Truly love how a few still post opinion as fact!! My take is we're here to win championships not have hollow series wins and look good every so often. We're also here to get players to the show. Could WR have done a better job in some areas?? Sure but there isn't a perfect GM out there. The entire sanction issue is a joke!! Branch knows full well many teams are playing with fire he choose to jump on the Spits and after a few drinks many in the ohl heirarchy will admit it!! Does the lack of playoff games hurt the bottom line? Sure it does but that's how the Spits choose to operate, they know the downside. I like the quality of player that comes from windsor, have a look around, see how many Windsor players make the show and also coach at a high level! I'd say the proof this is a quality is validated by those factors. Yes I'm a STH and have been a fan for over 40 years. As for London let's be honest, shenanigans have been their trademark for decades. Do I need to remind anyone of waterboy??? They chirp and their dirty. Nothing's new there.

While everyone wants to win championships how many championships are you winning without first winning in the playoffs? Spits did it in 2017 as hosts but that opportunity won't likely be coming around again anytime soon.

People often talk about playoff experience being important. Well if all the playoff experience is of the losing type how much confidence do you instill in a team?

If you want championships do you think you increase or decrease your chances providing a consistently better product that makes the playoffs regularly with assets stockpiled to add if you show potential to make a run?

Everyone on here expresses an opinion and very few are taken by most as anything other than an opinion. Until any opinion or rumour is shown to be fact I don't take it as anything other than opinion rumour. I don't have any inside knowledge so I don't try to spread any rumours. Any rumours I have put out there are based on public information so simply sharing what anyone can access. I have shared one other rumour that came from someone associated with the team through a family member. It was a situation that seemed to change every hour and clearly stated no idea if there was anything to it.

Mine and I'm sure most peoples opinions are based on what they feel, experience or some combination but not very many claim their opinion is based on hard facts which is why they are opinions and nothing more. If they were all facts there wouldn't be much discussion let alone debate and arguing.

As for the team running things the way they do, affecting the bottom line, why isn't that a concern for people? If they are going to call out fans for the issues surrounding how they operate then fans have a right to comment. Are you going to support any other poorly run business because they complain you aren't spending enough money on their product that you're not happy with? What's the difference?

The only real difference is a fanbase could potentially lose the team they support if the ownership isn't happy or successful but if the ownership of any sports franchise is that bad I say good riddance.

If you want fan support give them a reason to support you, simple enough. If you are losing fan support you can't blame the fans, it comes down to the lack of a good product to support so if there's an issue then the first place you have to look is at the product you provide.

As I said in a comment previously, winning a championship once in a while while providing a bunch of years before/after of poor showings isn't going to keep fans coming through the gate. Six or seven years of poor showings, back door championship then another rebuild and how did things work out? Lack of fan support and the organization calling out the fans. Great PR and customer service when you call out your unhappy/disenfranchised customers. That's sure to get them back in the seats.

The only way any sports franchise ever gets customers back when they have left over poor performance is major organizational changes and/or start providing a winning product consistently.
 

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As for waterboy, do you know anything about him or did you ever talk to him/meet him?

On the bench, he was despised. He played things up, put on a show and was hated by fans in every building he went to. Back in the 70s London was always a big draw in every building whether they were good or not and he was a part of that.

After sitting in the stands chanting waterboy with everyone else I would be in the office waiting to leave and he would come in once in a while, usually remembered everyone's names, extremely nice, all around good guy.

He was part of the entertainment value of the game, created a role outside of his official job and on the road became another attraction to go see at the games.

For the league which was still pretty small time he provided secondary entertainment for opposing fans. When someone outside of the players could help draw fans in back then it helped the league itself.

He was the bad guy everyone loved to hate on the opposing team regardless of the calber of that team at the time.

There's a fact for you.
 

nelli27

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As for waterboy, do you know anything about him or did you ever talk to him/meet him?

On the bench, he was despised. He played things up, put on a show and was hated by fans in every building he went to. Back in the 70s London was always a big draw in every building whether they were good or not and he was a part of that.

After sitting in the stands chanting waterboy with everyone else I would be in the office waiting to leave and he would come in once in a while, usually remembered everyone's names, extremely nice, all around good guy.

He was part of the entertainment value of the game, created a role outside of his official job and on the road became another attraction to go see at the games.

For the league which was still pretty small time he provided secondary entertainment for opposing fans. When someone outside of the players could help draw fans in back then it helped the league itself.

He was the bad guy everyone loved to hate on the opposing team regardless of the calber of that team at the time.

There's a fact for you.
RE: Don Brankley ('waterboy').
He befriended the Windsor fan who gave him that nickname, and Branks even visited him in the hospital when he was terminally ill.
 
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